Aquila/Worth String Tension

I have 2 soprano ukes, one strung with Aguila and the other with Worth strings. While I like the bright tone of the Worth strings, they are hard on the finger tips. The strings feel strung with noticeably higher tension to produce the same notes (not an octave higher). Is this how they achieve their brightness? For me, it is much more pleasurable to play on the Aguila strung uke. I'd change the Worth over to them, but then both instruments would sound too similar.

I've never tried them myself but you could try Worth fats if you want worth type tone with a thicker feel. They are gauged:
0244 (.62mm), 0291 (.74mm), 0319 (.81mm), 0260 (.66mm)

Compared to the normal worths gauged:
.0185"( .47mm), .0260"(.66mm), .0291"(.74mm) .0205"(.52mm)


http://www.elderly.com/accessories/names/worth-bf-"fat"-uke-set--WSBF.htm

Worth strings on a soprano ukulele

Try Worth tenor strings on a soprano ukulele. I love the tone and sound.
The tenor strings bought as a double pack will string three sopranos if you cut them off right.

Or if you really do like the sound you can always tough it out a little bit until you've built up your callouses and endurance. You should be able to adjust in a fairly short period of time, really. Tone is much harder to achieve and worth a little bit of physical discomfort if you find it.

toubisard said:

Try Worth tenor strings on a soprano ukulele. I love the tone and sound.
The tenor strings bought as a double pack will string three sopranos if you cut them off right.

Click to expand...

The E and G strings are thicker than the equivalent on the Mediums or Lights, but the C and A strings are the same for Lights right up to Tenor grade!

Seems odd and as if the balance of the strings is going to get more 'out' as one strings soprano up to tenor. Anyone actually worked out a reason why Worth do this yet?
I'm getting some intonation 'out' on my thickest C string with a set of CT on a sop. (Other sections of the 'same' string length are fine on another sop.)
Any ideas? It was fine with aquilas but they are actually thicker strings than worths as well. Would the problem have any effect from lowering action at either end of the instrument?

Re the Fats mentioned above, presumably the thicker string is going to cancel out any improvement as although it will not bruise the finger, you'll be pushing it a lot harder as the tension will be far higher again! Has anyone found a string tension chart for Worth, like Aquila give...?

It's not just thickness that matters, but thickness plus density. Worth (and all fluorocarbon) strings are much more dense than Nylgut, nylon, or gut so the strings are thinner for a given pitch.

Until you get used to them, fluorocarbon strings feel "harder" or "tighter" because the narrowness of the strings is a little harder on fingers. However, the clarity and depth of tone of the fluorocarbon strings is worth (pun not intended) the initial pain.

Someone recommended trying the Worth CT or CM strings so they would be thicker and feel more like Nylguts - just the opposite will happen. Because the strings are thicker they have to be under higher tension to reach the same pitch at a given scale length.

@pondweed - I'm not surprised you are experiencing intonation problems with CTs on a soprano. On all fretted instruments the bridge is positioned correctly for strings at a given tension. When you change the tension drastically (either higher or lower) from what is designed the intonation up the neck will usually suffer (though sometimes you get lucky and hit another "node" where the tension and bridge position work out okay). This is why on most reentrant ukes when you get to the twelfth fret the A and G strings will be a little flatter than the C and E strings. The effect varies with the strings in use, of course, but most reentrant string sets have the A and G under significantly higher tension than the C and E.

I am surprised, though, that it is the C string that is "out" because that string is the same in all Worth sets CL through CT. Are you actually metering the pitch up the fretboard or are you talking about the C being "out" by ear up the fretboard? The latter I could understand because the intonation on the C and E would remain correct while the other strings would probably go quite flat being under such high tension.

Myself, I found I loved the Worth CM but the E string seemed a bit out of whack. I also noticed that the Worth string gages match up perfectly with various sizes of Seaguar fluorocarbon fishing leaders, so I have started using my own sets that are equivalent to a worth CM set but with a slightly lighter gage E string (.0244 vs. Worth's .0260).

So far, I've used the following sets on concert scale ukes (both longneck soprano and concert) with great results. I've also used this on a tenor and it was pretty good though a little light on volume - the strings are lighter than typically found on a tenor. Surprising, though, intonation was still quite good on the tenor.
G - (.0224) Seaguar Premier Fluorocarbon 40lb leader
C - (.0291) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 60lb leader
E - (.0244) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 40lb leader
A - (.0205) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 30lb leader

I've also got a tenor strung with the above but with an unwound low G that is:
G - (.0358) Seaguar Fluorocarbon 90lb leader (note this is sold as their "big game" line and is packaged differently)

That works pretty well for low G tenor, though as noted the strings are a bit "light" for tenor and volume is down a little as a result.

I've also just ordered a spool of Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 50lb leader (.0260). This size appears to have been discontinued by Seaguar but I found a store that claims to have some in stock. This size will allow me to make full-tension tenor sets similar to Worth CT. I.e the following:
G - (.0244) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 40lb leader
C - (.0291) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 60lb leader
E - (.0260) Seaguar Fluorocarbon ("blue label") 50lb leader
G - (.0224) Seaguar Premier Fluorocarbon 40lb leader

BTW, I give this information not to encourage anyone to compete with Worth - this stuff is fairly expensive and unless your time is worthless (pun intended) you aren't going to make any money packaging strings in your basement. However, I know that there are other tone junkies like myself who can blissfully spend hours comparing strings, etc. I bought all this leader because I was almost happy with Worth CMs. The up side of being a nut case, though, is that I won't have to buy strings for a long, long time!

John

OldePhart said:

When you change the tension drastically (either higher or lower) from what is designed the intonation up the neck will usually suffer (though sometimes you get lucky and hit another "node" where the tension and bridge position work out okay). This is why on most reentrant ukes when you get to the twelfth fret the A and G strings will be a little flatter than the C and E strings. The effect varies with the strings in use, of course, but most reentrant string sets have the A and G under significantly higher tension than the C and E.

I am surprised, though, that it is the C string that is "out" because that string is the same in all Worth sets CL through CT. Are you actually metering the pitch up the fretboard or are you talking about the C being "out" by ear up the fretboard? The latter I could understand because the intonation on the C and E would remain correct while the other strings would probably go quite flat being under such high tension.

Click to expand...

thanks - I read with interest the other threads on this and your contribs. My problem seems to be compounded by the thickness of the C and E strings.. which is why I uncertain about trying other Worth because of their standardisation across the range! On the C particularly, the thickest string, the first fret goes sharp for everything but the lightest touch. Ditto second. And that's with the action lowered so that there is a tad of air above the first fret when the third is fretted. Saddle lowered too a fair bit. 12th fret intonation seems pretty close-on for all.

I'm interested in the tension difference - Aquila post theirs (for a soprano, 2.9-3.3kg per string) and I'd love to know what the Worths are. I'm also interested to why on a larger instrument, the extra tension is not "felt". (i.e. its not harder to play a concert over a sop, but the string tension rises considerably)

John, Thanks for the information on Seaguar.
Gone fishing......

pondweed said:

On the C particularly, the thickest string, the first fret goes sharp for everything but the lightest touch. Ditto second. And that's with the action lowered so that there is a tad of air above the first fret when the third is fretted. Saddle lowered too a fair bit. 12th fret intonation seems pretty close-on for all.

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Ahhh. First string intonation is another matter entirely. When your first fret notes are going sharp it means the nut slots are too high. If this is only happening with "thick" (for a given string position) strings it usually means the slot needs to be widened a little. When the slots are correct, the first and second fret notes will be spot on - no more than a half-cent or so variation. On some ukes you can't get there without buzzing, especially if the frets are uneven and/or the bridge has been lowered too much.

It is important when setting action that you begin by first getting the first fret intonation correct, then bring the bridge down in small increments if needed. In severe cases you may need to level the frets to get good intonation at the first fret and reasonable action at the high end of the fretboard.

HTH,
John

OldePhart said:

Ahhh. First string intonation is another matter entirely. When your first fret notes are going sharp it means the nut slots are too high. If this is only happening with "thick" (for a given string position) strings it usually means the slot needs to be widened a little. When the slots are correct, the first and second fret notes will be spot on - no more than a half-cent or so variation. On some ukes you can't get there without buzzing, especially if the frets are uneven and/or the bridge has been lowered too much.

It is important when setting action that you begin by first getting the first fret intonation correct, then bring the bridge down in small increments if needed. In severe cases you may need to level the frets to get good intonation at the first fret and reasonable action at the high end of the fretboard.

HTH,
John

Click to expand...

ok, that's great, thanks... but if my action is already low, do I just tease out the edges of the nut slots on the fingerboard side so the "bend" (from first fretting) is made fractionally easier? I'd always wondered whether the plane of the filed nut slot level should be flat or slightly curving off from its set height. I've just filed flat up to now.

pondweed said:

ok, that's great, thanks... but if my action is already low, do I just tease out the edges of the nut slots on the fingerboard side so the "bend" (from first fretting) is made fractionally easier? I'd always wondered whether the plane of the filed nut slot level should be flat or slightly curving off from its set height. I've just filed flat up to now.

Click to expand...

I like to have the slots angle back from the fingerboard side (high) to the headstock side (low) at about the same angle as the headstock or a tad less. The idea is that you want the string to "break" right on that edge of the nut. You don't want the string squirming around and vibrating against a long flat slot.

John