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herbsandspices
02-01-2009, 09:10 AM
I'm building a StewMac kit as a warm-up to do one of Pete's kits, and have gotten to the soundhole purfing. The SM instructions say to use their binding cement (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhesives/Weld-On_binding_adhesive.html).

Ok, well, I didn't buy any of that. I'm not sure what side-affects superglue would have if used in its place (stain the purfing? expand it too much?), but if needs be, I can wait a few days for the binding cement to arrive.

Just wanted to hear your all's thoughts on this!

Thanks,
john

cpatch
02-01-2009, 09:42 AM
I'd wait for the binding cement...just looking at the contents at StewMac I'd say the acrylic resin is key to getting a good bond between the plastic and the wood. Better to wait a few days and do it right.

herbsandspices
02-01-2009, 09:57 AM
I'd wait for the binding cement...just looking at the contents at StewMac I'd say the acrylic resin is key to getting a good bond between the plastic and the wood. Better to wait a few days and do it right.

Thanks cpatch! :)

I have no problem waiting to do it the right way!

It might sound weird, but I've actually really enjoyed taking my time in learning what tools and materials are needed - reading a lot about everything! The entire building process has been very meditative thus far - built a little, wait a while, glue a little, wait a while. I'm loving it!

Best,
john

Pete Howlett
02-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Because of the difficulty of getting Weld-On in the UK I have for ages used superglue. It's a painful process.

However I managed to source some Weld-On a couple of weeks ago and the first thing I had to do was get hold of some plastic ink lining bottles so I could control the flow of this stuff.

John - go to Taylor's factory Friday videos and watch the binding videos.Ggreat advice and technique that I now use. Doubt I will go back to superglue...

Dominator
02-01-2009, 10:22 AM
Actually, there is no problem using the superglue. In fact many luthiers today use superglue exclusively for binding, purfling and rosette work. The key is to apply or spray some laquer in the work area to keep the SG from wicking into places you don't want it to. At one time I believe Chuck Moore was using SG for this purpose. Maybe he will chime in.

I recommend checking out the Factory Friday videos at Taylor Guitars. They are all interesting viewing but specifically for your purposes watch the video on rosettes. You will see the process I'm referring to.

This is a very clean way to install rosette shell pieces etc. I used glue for my first ones and it was such a messy job. This dry method is so much better. It allows you to get everything just like you want it and then do the gluing process. It's definitely worth a look.
Regards,

E-Lo Roberts
02-01-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm building a StewMac kit as a warm-up to do one of Pete's kits, and have gotten to the soundhole purfing. The SM instructions say to use their binding cement (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhesives/Weld-On_binding_adhesive.html).

Ok, well, I didn't buy any of that. I'm not sure what side-affects superglue would have if used in its place (stain the purfing? expand it too much?), but if needs be, I can wait a few days for the binding cement to arrive.

Just wanted to hear your all's thoughts on this!

Thanks,
john

John, I use super glue on my soundhole purfing when using shell (paua or MoP).

I would suggest using a spray sealer on the soundboard first to minimize the super glue soaking into the top. It will dry within an hour.

After that. Just dry set the shell, then when it looks good to you, just flood the channel with a thin super glue. Put some wax paper over the soundboard with a weight over the shell if you like and wait for it to dry.

OR.. simply flood the shell, then use some super glue excelerater spray to cure the super glue immediately.

Once it is dry, you can run the soundboard through a drum sander to level the surface, or just use a cabinet scraper to remove the super glue and level the shell to the surface of the top, or simply sandpaper the soundboard. If using sandpaper you will have to use different and progressively finer grades to get the scratches out of the shell.

I prefer: seal top; dry set shell; flood channel with thin super glue; spray excelerater; cabinet scraper the top. It's fast and leaves the surface nice and clean.

Side note: I wouldn't get to dependant on Stew Mac, lmii, or similar luthier sub products. They are in the business to make extra $$ off such items (i.e. their own binding cements etc.) Nothing wrong with that. It's certainly a good business practice. But there are many methods and alteratives to making an instrument.

Hope this helps...e.lo....

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
02-01-2009, 03:09 PM
Yeah, what everyone else said.
With one caveat however. SG is fine for rosettes and inlay but there are a lot of respected builders who would never think of using superglue for gluing on bindings and purflings. These are builders who have put their time in to repairing instruments as well as building them. Keep in mind folks that, like it or not, our ukuleles may need to be repaired from time to time. Ever try to remove a top or back that's been superglued on? (Supergluing the binding or purfling will effectively glue the tops and backs on.) Can't be done. You don't repair these ukes, you replace them.
So when you build, just don't think about the construction process, think down the road about the poor sucker who made need to repair your uke.

Kekani
02-01-2009, 05:49 PM
I absolutely ruined a curly redwood top because of using CA - it wicked right into the end grain. You already have the fix with sealing it first.

Not unlike Chuck, once I started doing wood bindings (no plastic), its LMI glue, just like the rest of the body. If I'm installing a shell purfling around the body, CA comes back into play.

BTW, I used to agree with E-Lo regarding Stew-Mac and LMI - I thought they were extremely expensive for some of the items they have. In the end, there are certain things they supply (like Stew Mac's Foredom kit for inlay, and LMI Glue, in particular) that you just gotta go to them for, just to make life easier in the long run.

Remember, he with most tools. . . . . wins!

-Aaron

E-Lo Roberts
02-02-2009, 04:48 AM
I absolutely ruined a curly redwoodbecause of using CA - it wicked right into the end grain. You already have the fix with sealing it first. top

BTW, I used to agree with E-Lo regarding Stew-Mac and LMI - I thought they were extremely expensive for some of the items they have. In the end, there are certain things they supply (like Stew Mac's Foredom kit for inlay, and LMI Glue, in particular) that you just gotta go to them for, just to make life easier in the long run.

Remember, he with most tools. . . . . wins!

-Aaron
Kekani, OK I conced. :)

Being the low man of the luthier totem pole, i'm not to proud to take a hit from Chuck or you on the binding glue. I only use SG in the soundhole area and headstock inlay.

Lately I have been having success with the rest of the glue ups using Hide Glue. Seeing that I am still on a learning curve in most areas, I found that "undoing" what I did sometimes is in order. So the Hide Glue is very forgiving in this area...e.lo...

herbsandspices
02-02-2009, 05:29 AM
Wow! , some awesome responses from the top-dogs here... Mahalo!

Pete & Dominator, thanks for the link to those Taylor video's - I've never seen 'em before, but what a great resource - if it works for them, it's gotta work for me, eh?

So it seems like you can use superglue, if you put some lacquer or sealer on beforehand. But I might just order some of the binding glue and see how that goes. Chuck, your note makes sense about thinking into the future of what repairs might have to be done to the uke. I like the idea of having it be somewhat repairable, even though it's not an expensive kit.

E-Lo, thanks for the note about not leaning too much on SM or LMII - I think beginners like me probably don't know any better! But it's nice that the products they have will be the right thing (or close to it!) to what we need.

Again, thanks guys - what a great forum this is.. I feel truly fortunate to have found it!

Will let y'all know how it goes! So far, the kit is going swimmingly!

john

Kekani
02-02-2009, 06:39 AM
Kekani, OK I conced. :)

Being the low man of the luthier totem pole, i'm not to proud to take a hit from Chuck or you on the binding glue. I only use SG in the soundhole area and headstock inlay.

Lately I have been having success with the rest of the glue ups using Hide Glue. Seeing that I am still on a learning curve in most areas, I found that "undoing" what I did sometimes is in order. So the Hide Glue is very forgiving in this area...e.lo...

E.Lo, what are you talking about? No conceeding necessary. The great thing is this forum shows different things.

As for my current process on rosettes, I still use CA, like you. I just don't waste soundboards anymore by not being careful about seeping endgrain.

Personally, I never got into hide glue simply because I don't glue up everyday, or anywhere close to, so to heat up the pot. . .I'll use the technology and LMI glue. Yes, expensive (relative to Titebond), and it ends up spoiling before its gone. BUT, in the entire scheme, its only $7 a bottle (way less than the cost of an instrument).

Funny thing about Stew Mac - I just lost (don't ask how) my nut files, ordered some cheapies on eBay (that looked like the Ibanez, but weren't), then just ordered more from Stew Mac, again.

This does not serve well in the race for more tools - this is a setback and a redo. Very costly.

-Aaron

Pete Howlett
02-02-2009, 12:34 PM
SG is great for quick and awkward fixes and now I have got the hang of using Weld-on it will be retired for that purpose and shell inlay.

BTW - apart from appearance I can't see the point of wood binding - it is not as resilient as plastic and can dent just as easy as non-bound edge. My favorite combination is tortoise against a w/b line...

herbsandspices
02-02-2009, 01:59 PM
Well StewMac just got some more of my money - some Weld-It and a few other goodies.

Pete, again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your videos. I watched the finishing video today (part 9 of your kit build - getting a bit ahead of myself, as usual!), and was fascinated by how easy you made it look... as usual! Guess that whole experience thing has something to do with it!

Also, regarding the binding, good to know! I bought the SM binding router guide for the Dremel, which I'll experiment on some scrap wood, but might end up using on your kit. (Only if I'm 100% confident in my skills!!!)

Best,
john

Thanks,
John

E-Lo Roberts
02-02-2009, 02:04 PM
E.Lo, what are you talking about? No conceeding necessary. The great thing is this forum shows different things.

Funny thing about Stew Mac - I just lost (don't ask how) my nut files, ordered some cheapies on eBay (that looked like the Ibanez, but weren't), then just ordered more from Stew Mac, again.

This does not serve well in the race for more tools - this is a setback and a redo. Very costly.

-Aaron

Aaron, I got lucky on the nut files. A fellow guitarist friend of mine had a full set of files. Knocked on my door one day and just gave them to me. I didn't realize how much they were until later when I checked out the prices at SM. I guess I owe him lunch now.

Pete Howlett
02-02-2009, 02:20 PM
LMII's gramil is a better bet than that expensive router technology which in a dremel is almost a waste of time - it may help your zen experience of building too. I still use my gramil to tidy up the back rebate even though it is cut with quite a sophisticated pantograph router cutter.

herbsandspices
02-03-2009, 06:17 AM
LMII's gramil is a better bet than that expensive router technology which in a dremel is almost a waste of time - it may help your zen experience of building too. I still use my gramil to tidy up the back rebate even though it is cut with quite a sophisticated pantograph router cutter.

"Zen Experience" - Pete, you understand me all to well! http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3600/levitatemk0.gif

That Schneider Gramil looks awesome. Even though hand tools can take a lot longer, they're perfect for my apartment...err, workshop. Quiet and compact!

How often have you had to replace the blade for it? (Not that the blades are expensive, but just so I know if I should buy a couple extras)

Thanks!
John

Pete Howlett
02-03-2009, 09:10 AM
One blade that comes with it should be fine. The secret is on the way inwhich you sharpen and use it. I guess I'd need to do a video...

herbsandspices
02-03-2009, 11:49 AM
I guess I'd need to do a video...

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5128/popcornsq2.gif

herbsandspices
02-17-2009, 07:15 PM
Well, just applied the purfing on the SM kit with the Weld-On cement - it's crazy how "soft" the strips become when they come in contact with the cement. I also used much too much of the Weld-On, and had a bit of a mess by the end. I'm glad that they made them wide enough where you scrape some off, as I'm sure my fingernails dented the temporarily soft purfing. Learning = fun!
john

Pete Howlett
02-18-2009, 12:37 PM
If you watch this process in the Taylor factory friday videos john you can see the demonstrator using kitchen towel as he goes around - well first he applies adhesive to the rebate then pushes in place, lifts of then re-applies. It's quite a technique. Difficult zones are resolved with superglue.

I found using the WeldIt/WeldOn from the tube a disaster so I got some ink applique bottles off eBay. You can get them with precision nozzles but anything finer than .9mm isn't effective. Anyway, because the bottle is transparent and the nozzle quite fine it is easy to control the flow of adhesive and I have had very good results. I also have a planing jig inwhich I drop the binding and size with my hand jointer/fore plane. I also have a nifty jig for sanding binding heights. Nevertheless, close to the size of the rebate is best because scraping back binding is always a major pain in the butt and you will always slip and scar the front or back....

herbsandspices
02-18-2009, 12:44 PM
Don't jinx me Pete! :) I woke up this morning and chiseled away a bit of the purfing, just to see what it'd look like, and it went fine (first time using razor-sharp new chisels!). I'm patient and will go very slow, and then sand with a sanding block to get it flush with the top.

Thanks for the top with the application bottles - I'll see what I can find locally! LMII has a glue syringe, but I don't like the idea of applying with a plunger, as opposed to a squeeze bottle.

john

Pete Howlett
02-18-2009, 01:29 PM
No - use a squeeze bottle. The cement/adhesiove is too viscose.