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pakiboy949
02-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Anybody know anything about it, to memorize scales and learn to improvise?

dannyboy
02-25-2008, 03:41 PM
This is the C Major scale
A-----------0-2-3---------
E-----0-1-3---------------
C-0-2--------------------
G----------------------

or

A----------------------------
E----------------------------
C-0-2-4-5-7-9-11-12--------
G----------------------------

i really dont know anything about it but from what i know its supposed to help you out when you want to create a solo or if your just improvising from one scale to another

michaelphipps
02-25-2008, 05:40 PM
A whole tone scale is just made up of tones, no semitones.

C,D,E,F#,G#,A#,C

I tend to use a Dorian scale which is made up of t s t t s t (there are lots of different jazz scales) oh t = tone, s = semitone

A-----------0-1-3---------
E-------1-3---------------
C-0-2-3------------------
G----------------------

Any note in a C blues scale should sound 'right' against a c chord. A blues scale will sound weird when played up and down. Players will pick notes from the blues scale, to make a small melody that can be played over the top of a chord

The whole purpose of a blues/jazz scales is to give players a framework to build melodies on. Learning the scales trains your fingers how to move between the notes, and your ears what to expect.

I found a great reply to a post from a trombone player asking how to improvise over on yahoo answers. A lot of what he says applies to any sort of improvisation, particularly he mentions how specific scales are used in different types of jazz. So check out the post: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20080104163101AAGfV5r&show=7

In reality, I think I learnt how to improvise (on trumpet at least) by playing little counter melodies to accompany the main melody in a song.

Hope that helps you out (sort of)

Fred Miu
02-25-2008, 05:46 PM
this is a very good topic that everyone should know.

this should get really deep everyone, knowing the scales is one of the very few things, i believe, that makes you become a better musician.

i dont know that much about scales, so please post up any information that you know about this.

thanks guys.

clevacheva
02-25-2008, 06:31 PM
yeah i definitely need to know this..i NEED to learn how to improviseeeee

studentaccount1
02-25-2008, 08:03 PM
A whole tone scale is just made up of tones, no semitones.

C,D,E,F#,G#,A#,C

I tend to use a Dorian scale which is made up of t s t t s t (there are lots of different jazz scales) oh t = tone, s = semitone

A-----------0-1-3---------
E-------1-3---------------
C-0-2-3------------------
G----------------------

Any note in a C blues scale should sound 'right' against a c chord. A blues scale will sound weird when played up and down. Players will pick notes from the blues scale, to make a small melody that can be played over the top of a chord

The whole purpose of a blues/jazz scales is to give players a framework to build melodies on. Learning the scales trains your fingers how to move between the notes, and your ears what to expect.

I found a great reply to a post from a trombone player asking how to improvise over on yahoo answers. A lot of what he says applies to any sort of improvisation, particularly he mentions how specific scales are used in different types of jazz. So check out the post: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20080104163101AAGfV5r&show=7

In reality, I think I learnt how to improvise (on trumpet at least) by playing little counter melodies to accompany the main melody in a song.

Hope that helps you out (sort of)


That is pretty good advice. The best advice from that link you posted is to listen and try to copy the musicians you love.

I think the single most important thing someone can do to get better at improvising is learn licks/songs/solos by people they like by ear (not tabs).

Sure no one will pick up a guitar and hack away at "Eruption" or something right away. It take time to develop your ear. Some people longer than others. You do have to start slowly, and work at it. It can be challenging at first, but I believe learning by ear is the best way to start developing good music skills.

I am willing to bet that guys like Dom and Aldrine are so good because they digested a lot of music first through their ears and took time to try and copy what they heard as opposed to only reading tabs.


-----------------------------------------------------
Now about "improvisation".

With this topic you can go both in two really different directions.

One school of thought says, "play what you hear", "just flow", or in the infamous phrase of Hawaiian guitarist Ledward Kaapana, "jus' press". This is valid but without a real framework "improvisation" can get boring for the player and the listener.

The other school of thought is that there is a logic behind everything, and theory is the map to the path of improvisation heaven. This mindset can lead to very boring discussions like "which scale goes with the A7b9#11b13 (A7alt - A dim whole tone if you're interested) chord?"

I think there is a healthy balance somewhere in the middle.


Damn that was long.
I hope that wasn't too boring to read.:rolleyes:

dannyboy
02-25-2008, 08:19 PM
D Major scale: D E F# G A B C# D

A---------0-2-4-5--------------
E-----2-3--------------------
C-2-4------------------------
G--------------------------

F Major Scale: F G A Bb C D E F

A-----0-1-3-5-7-8----------------
E-1-3------------------------
C--------------------------
G--------------------------

G Major scale: G A B C D E F# G

A-----2-3-5-7-9-10----------------
E-3-5------------------------
C--------------------------
G--------------------------

Short scale:

A-----------------------------------------------
E-----0-1-3-1-0-------------1-2-4-2-1----------
C-0h2-----------2-0~-1-1h3-----------3-1~-2-- and so on
G-----------------------------------------------

i use the short scale to warm up and it helps you learn notes on the fretboard

dajoka
02-25-2008, 08:45 PM
wass helping me is not so much learning scales ver batim, but jus trying fo play melodies by ear. i like playing da traditional hawaiian songs. afta a while, you'll begin fo see patterns, and be able fo figgah out da fretboard mo bettah and den figgah out wat key you stay in. it's taking me loooooong time. still learning. no give up eh.

michaelphipps
02-25-2008, 09:19 PM
One school of thought says, "play what you hear", "just flow", or in the infamous phrase of Hawaiian guitarist Ledward Kaapana, "jus' press".

I like the jus' press' philosophy!



I am willing to bet that guys like Dom and Aldrine are so good because they digested a lot of music first through their ears and took time to try and copy what they heard as opposed to only reading tabs.

Yeah - I definately learn through copying. I'm writing the tab for More Than Words at the moment. Even though I'm just an ukulele beginner, I've got 25 years of music knowledge to draw on, so by breaking down what an artist is doing and transcribing it, I'm learning these quaint techniques. I'm hoping it helps improve my playing.

I've been watching Jake play My Guitar Gently Weeps in lots of different videos. I did expect the version to change from video to video, but I've noticed it's the same most times. These artists practice playing exactly, precisely how they will perform. They don't just walk out and improvise their way through a song. They play exactly what they rehearsed.

I think successful improvising requires you to be quite capable of playing your instrument first.

I think I'm going off topic, so I'll stop there.

Duke
02-26-2008, 12:33 AM
theres something i worked out a year ago.

look our for the Dm-Scale:



0-- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 - 3 4
o|| o - o - o - o o - o - o | o -...
o|| o - o - o o - o - o - o | o -...
o|| - o - o o - o - o o - o | - o...
o|| - o o - o - o - o o - o | - o...

ever "o" is in he Dm scale, so if i do a jazztune or wharever i can use every tone for jammin a melody.

so if you remember this structure on the fretboard anything is possible;
you can movei it up and down so you get other scales (major and minor).
once you learn a simple Dm scale. the next Dm-scale starts with e, third with f...

tha why there is this ionian, dorian, lyrian, or wahtever (i don't know all this stuff); there are 7 different c scales, d scales, e scales,....

once again:
for me it helps just to kow the structure; then i know where i can jam the right tones for a song :D

greets

tripl3thr33
02-26-2008, 08:38 AM
i dont know much about music theory, but i have a pdf called "the cheater's theory" by the Howlin' Hobbit (which is very informative). I think that in there, there was some part that said that the scale always follows the same pattern where the notes are always 2 frets apart for the first 2 notes and then the next note of the scale is on the next fret. So it kind of goes, 2,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,1...etc. I think I got it from that pdf.... or something I could have noticed but I doubt that :P

For example if we take the C major scale and leave it on the C string, you could see the pattern



/ 2 \/ 2 \/ 1 \/ 2 \/ 2 \/ 1 \/ 2 \
A|----------------------------------------|
E|----------------------------------------|
C|-0----2----4----5----7----9----10----12-|
G|----------------------------------------|


And the F major scale, staying on the E string.

/ 2 \/ 2 \/ 1 \/ 2 \/ 2 \/ 1 \/ 2 \
A|----------------------------------------|
E|-1----3----5----6----8----10---12----13-|
C|----------------------------------------|
G|----------------------------------------|

And based on how far up the fretboard it goes, I'll move on to the next string. Just knowing this little pattern helps me figure out SOME songs, knowing which frets and strings to hit.... sometimes. Just a little insight.

ukeboypat
02-26-2008, 01:16 PM
I think the trouble with scales and theory is that its not as fun as just jamming but this will definitely hinder your performance later

As boring as the scales may seem they are key in advancing to a level above were you are now

so the man thing to do is to practice everyday or so on every scale to memorize them so that later in life you can break out some mad solos