Poor marks for Elderly

First off let me say I have bought from them before and have had a satisfactory experience.

However this time it was definitely not. I ordered a Moku tenor uke. I got a notice just a couple of hours after placing the order that it had shipped. My first thought was, "I hope they set it up" but passed it off as paranoia on my part. I had requested a low action due to arthritis in my hands. Anyway I was excited to know it would be here quick.

Until I opened it that is. First off I'd like to say the packing would make Amazon proud. It was just in it's cardboard box with that almost tissue thin foam wrap. That was inside a large box with a tiny bit of crumpled brown paper thrown in. I'm amazed it wasn't damaged in transit.

First thing I noticed on taking it out was that the action looked and felt high. Then I noticed a loud buzzing in the E string that no one could have missed or should have missed had they played it.

I immediately contacted them and they insisted that it had been set up properly. I told them I would be taking it to a luthier for evaluation. They changed tone at that point and offered to pay if anything was found up to $42.

The Luthier took one look at it and said that it was plain to see it hadn't really been looked over. One of the nut groves was too wide and deep and was causing the loud buzz when played. He fixed it with glue and bone dust.

So I'll give them a FAIL on their professional setup and resent the fact that on the phone they initially disputed my claims about the set up issues. It was not what I would call good customer service.

Sadly they are no longer on my A list and have gone down to questionable.

I know that many here have good experiences with them and may take exception to this report but so be it. I won't be using them as a go to source except as a last resort.

it's easier to just shuffle boxes around than to actually perform work.

I would not buy a Uke from them expecting the kind of setup that I would get from a dedicated Uke dealer...

However elderly is excellent for general music supplies, some good prices on instruments, and vintage old instruments... For all that they are in my top 5...

Undoubtedly, you are going to see a whole bunch of posts here praising Elderly - and certainly those folks had a positive experience. For me, it has been more of a mixed bag. I have bought some nice stuff from them and have had some nice service. I like their prices - and their guitar inventory is pretty great. However, I have also had the three following experiences:

- They once shipped me an electric guitar. It was shipped with no padding or packing material of any sort. Honestly, just the guitar (in its case) bouncing around loose in a big cardboard box. I was stunned.

- The sent me an acoustic guitar for which they had to cut a new saddle. When it arrived, the set-up was horrendous. The saddle was horribly cut (I have cut a bunch of my own saddles in my life). When I returned the guitar because of the set-up, they contacted me. Apparently the repair guy (Johhny or something like that) disowned the set-up and blamed ME for the shoddy saddle work! He accused me of having messed with it. I was livid, to say the least.

- I was trading in a guitar against a new high end guitar they had in their shop. The guy working the "trade" desk (Larry someone) gave a look at the guitar I was buying, then looked at me and said "I am proud to say that I have never paid more than $400 for a guitar." Yeah - thanks buddy for making feel like a guitar snob. lol

Personally, for anything ukulele related - I don't know why anyone would go anywhere other than Hawaii Music Supply (when possible). Andrew and company are the best. Ever. Period.

I just got a tenor from Elderly and the packing was excellent. Could not asked for better packing.

It, like Islander's uke, seemed to be shipped very quickly from when I placed the order and I was concerned that their statements regarding setup was more promotional than actual.

But this Kala tenor turned out to be fine. Maybe they checked it out before putting it in inventory. More likely Kala did a good job. Regardless, a nice uke, at a nice price, very satisfied, and I have no current UAS!

Ralph

Thanks for posting this. Now I know my feelings aren't off base altogether.

I can only contrast this experience to my last one with HMS and my Gretsch. It's the best playing instrument I own now in great part due to the stellar set up done by HMS.

I contacted my gf about canceling a backorder for a solid koa Gretsch but she had already beat me to it. They are going to at least lose our business over this. Had their attitude towards me been better much would have been forgiven on my part. I try not to be a hard ass when people treat me respectfully and I know that mistakes happen.

So to add more here I had talked to someone there on that first day and when I said I was taking it to a Luthier they said Elderly would be willing to offset some of the costs of it depending on what needed to be done.

So the next day I called to confirm and ask what the amount would be they would be willing to cover and I would appreciate it in writing in an email. I was nastily told that they don't need to do that and I should just trust them and the amount they would cover would be $42. At this point I was getting a little pissed off and said I'd like to see it in writing anyway which they, after some more conversation agree to.

Within an hour or so of that conversation I received another call from this same person telling me that I had already been told all this by another person earlier and why was I calling back when I already knew they would pay. That was the moment I told myself they wouldn't be getting any more of my business anytime soon. I explained to him I did not know the dollar amount I had to play with and was confirming that and wanted it in writing. He actually laughed at me and told me to have a good day. I wished him the same and hung up.

From past experience with online line dealers, I learned never to do any customer service over the phone, I always email them and specifically ask to reply only by email, no phone calls.

bearbike137 said:

Personally, for anything ukulele related - I don't know why anyone would go anywhere other than Hawaii Music Supply (when possible). Andrew and company are the best. Ever. Period.

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This ^^

There are other dealers here who I've never dealt with, and who I'm sure are excellent, but both my HMS ukes are setup to perfection.

Olarte said:

I would not buy a Uke from them expecting the kind of setup that I would get from a dedicated Uke dealer...

However elderly is excellent for general music supplies, some good prices on instruments, and vintage old instruments... For all that they are in my top 5...

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Well what is a set up then? They state it proudly on their website. Is buzzing strings acceptable and considered "set up"?

I don't doubt their good prices. I was lured by the 10% off. But in reality I would have gladly paid full price to have it really set up, saving me a huge time and emotional hassle. That 10% hardly compensates me for any of this. I'll pay extra or know going in I have to pay for a set up once the instrument gets here. I don't mind that but I want to know it going in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elderly_Instruments

Elderly does such high volume, they have their own wiki page!

I think retailers like Elderly do not set up every single instrument, even though they might say they do. They probably inspect them, and maybe even strum them and fix anything they might catch, but to actively set up each instrument for Elderly is unlikely. This may well be brother O's point.

This is what makes a dedicated ukulele retailer like HMS pure gold. HMS is no Elderly, so Andrew sees every uke, and God only knows he doesn't want to pay return shipping all the way to HI due to a buzz. ;-)~. So, he's got it down to a win win science.

I'm so glad you brought this up, I53. I got a Kamoa from Elderly and it, too, was in the original box and I'm sure un-handled by any human since the manufacturer. So, what you say is true. No doubt. I buy vintage or used instruments once or twice from Elderly, but I buy anything new from HMS.

Well live and learn. I heard some accolades on the set up that Elderly does and believed. But saying they do a set up and not doing anything is just dishonest period and I'd rather not be a party to that in the future. The fact is that had any one plucked the strings on my uke before packaging it they would have realized that there was something very wrong and it wasn't playable.

I had a similar experience with Elderly some months ago with a Gretsch New Yorker mandolin I purchased. The string height at the first fret was nearly 1/4" - impossible to even fret the string from that height. I set the mandolin up myself as I'm able to do my own set ups, but I called Elderly to let them know the condition in which I received the mandolin because "expert setup" is clearly advertised on their mandolins. The person I got was completely dismissive of my observations and stated that the mandolin had received the set up promised! This experience has changed my opinion about Elderly as obviously they have people working for them who do not care to provide the service they advertise and whoever is in charge there is not on top of his/her game.

I only use them for strings. Their prices are high and the one time I called about purchasing a ukulele I got kind of a snotty attitude when I asked about any possible discount (used instrument), did they do setup, was there a customer satisfaction guarantee? I spoke with a woman who sounded kind of put out and disinterested in making a sale. maybe there was an impatient RL customer standing right there she could have given the phone to someone else or put me on hold if so, but it makes me agree, HMS.

However I just bought a Collings from Hill Country Guitars in Austin, TX and I give them credit for taking me seriously (although by email I had to ask the same questions a few times; they did not blow me off as a faceless internet waste of time), and they sent me extra pics and made a sound file. Every email was answered even after hours or late their time. When a price was agreed upon I called them to ask about clearing my check and shipping and to say Hi, and the owner Kevin was personable and patient and has a good sense of humor, and so do the other guys there. It was a good transaction overall and the Collings is lovely.

I think a store needs to have the attitude that every contact is a potential sale, and that every customer is a potential repeat customer. MGM was one of the best at this even when he didn't answer all the questions either; he always replied back, with characteristic spelling errors and garbling of words from his phone's keyboard. I miss him a ton!

I've ordered a few minor things from Elderly (strings, banjo uke head) and had no problems with my order. However, from other friends of mine I've heard a few negative things about them, very similar to some of the issues stated in this thread. Personally, I suspect they do have someone who does repairs on staff but probably only knows how to deal with guitars and basses. Besides comments that have been made to me by other uke, banjo, and mandolinists that I know, the main basis of my theory is that they have a few mid-to high end used ukes that are being sold as is because they need setups and/or a seam re-glued. If they provide "expert setups" shouldn't the expert be able to knock out a setup in a reasonable amount of time? Just seems odd to me. While I'll probably still get simple items from them I highly doubt I'll ever make a major purchase from them.

coolkayaker1 said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elderly_Instruments

Elderly does such high volume, they have their own wiki page!

I think retailers like Elderly do not set up every single instrument, even though they might say they do. They probably inspect them, and maybe even strum them and fix anything they might catch, but to actively set up each instrument for Elderly is unlikely. This may well be brother O's point.

This is what makes a dedicated ukulele retailer like HMS pure gold. HMS is no Elderly, so Andrew sees every uke, and God only knows he doesn't want to pay return shipping all the way to HI due to a buzz. ;-)~. So, he's got it down to a win win science.

I'm so glad you brought this up, I53. I got a Kamoa from Elderly and it, too, was in the original box and I'm sure un-handled by any human since the manufacturer. So, what you say is true. No doubt. I buy vintage or used instruments once or twice from Elderly, but I buy anything new from HMS.

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I love the setup i got from http://fanguitarandukulele.com and they also ship instruments. My instrument sounds perfect.

The owner at Fan used to be a store Manager at HMS. I've talked with him several times. He recommended my Moku over instruments that he carries knowing he might likely lose a sale. That's the kind of people I want to do business with every time.

Blaming the dealer for a poor setup on an import is a bit over the top. Why don't the people who make the things do the set up? Should the dealers also have to glue the bridges on or install the tuners? Why does the dealer have to do what should be done from the factory. When I bought a Martn guitar years ago, the set up was fine, the dealer didn't do anything. Why is it expected that the uke or guitar will need a setup by the dealer. Its not just ukes that have this problem, import violins are almost always is poor setup condition when they arrive from the factory. Seems this has become the norm for cheaper instruments which in my mind makes them even cheaper.

BlackBearUkes said:

Blaming the dealer for a poor setup on an import is a bit over the top. Why don't the people who make the things do the set up? Should the dealers also have to glue the bridges on or install the tuners? Why does the dealer have to do what should be done from the factory. When I bought a Martn guitar years ago, the set up was fine, the dealer didn't do anything. Why is it expected that the uke or guitar will need a setup by the dealer. Its not just ukes that have this problem, import violins are almost always is poor setup condition when they arrive from the factory. Seems this has become the norm for cheaper instruments which in my mind makes them even cheaper.

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Someone else point out how entirely stupid this post is. I can't be bothered.

BlackBearUkes said:

Blaming the dealer for a poor setup on an import is a bit over the top. Why don't the people who make the things do the set up? Should the dealers also have to glue the bridges on or install the tuners? Why does the dealer have to do what should be done from the factory. When I bought a Martn guitar years ago, the set up was fine, the dealer didn't do anything. Why is it expected that the uke or guitar will need a setup by the dealer. Its not just ukes that have this problem, import violins are almost always is poor setup condition when they arrive from the factory. Seems this has become the norm for cheaper instruments which in my mind makes them even cheaper.

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What an absolutely ridiculous post!
The dealer OFFERS "expertly setup" instruments, so nothing "over the top" about expecting to get the deal they are offering and that you have agreed to! Yes, dealers should have to ensure that the instruments they sell and stock are in good playable condition, and if setup is offered, that is what should be given! Anything less is dishonest! If dealers do not wish to keep lower end instruments whose factory set up and finish is poor, then that is their choice, but if they keep factory assembly line instruments, they are always likely to need checking and setting up -

BlackBearUkes said:

Blaming the dealer for a poor setup on an import is a bit over the top. Why don't the people who make the things do the set up? Should the dealers also have to glue the bridges on or install the tuners? Why does the dealer have to do what should be done from the factory. When I bought a Martn guitar years ago, the set up was fine, the dealer didn't do anything. Why is it expected that the uke or guitar will need a setup by the dealer. Its not just ukes that have this problem, import violins are almost always is poor setup condition when they arrive from the factory. Seems this has become the norm for cheaper instruments which in my mind makes them even cheaper.

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I'm blaming the dealer for saying they set up these instruments and not doing it. That's a legitimate complaint. If they aren't going to do it then don't say they will. That's called honesty. They make sales by stating they do set ups. That's in the same category with bait and switch to me.

As to your point. I've wondered that myself. I'm guessing that quality control to that extent would make for a much more expensive product plus not everyone wants a low action etc. But I think you asking that question is worthwhile. I'd like to see better quality control myself. If it was binoculars they would just get sent back to the company. I've heard that stores often send back a fairly significant amount of ukes that come in due to poor quality.