PDA

View Full Version : Help! A string slips off of the tuning peg (Risa Uke Solid Tenor - new :-( )



NewMexicoKid
05-19-2014, 05:39 PM
I was hoping to post one of those NUD posts with pictures; my Risa Uke Solid (Tenor) arrived this afternoon (I've been anticipating its arrival (http://teiru.net/risa)!). I tuned it via an Android tuning app and began my first ukulele experience with a few chords. All seemed well.

Then, tonight, perhaps five hours later, I thought to do a little strumming before bedtime. The ukulele was a bit out of tune (I think I've read that it takes time for the strings to settle?). The first three notes (GCE) took minor tweaking, but the A was off, quite a bit flat. I slowly wound it up, strumming a bit at each quarter turn. I got it back in tune and then when I strummed, something went thump. At first I thought that the A string had broken, but instead a few loops had fallen off of the end of the tuning peg, bringing it down from A4 to B3.

I tried three times more, each time with the same result. It looks like bringing it to A4 brings the string to the tippy end of the tuning peg (not sure why it didn't slip off during my hour of playing in the afternoon).

Is there a way to fix this? Is it normal? Abnormal? Should I return the ukulele? :(

Thanks for any advice.

coolkayaker1
05-19-2014, 06:26 PM
Hi, Tim.

Do you mean that some of the wound loops of the A string have slipped off the tuning peg?

A photo might help. Easily remedied if that is the issue. Or, is it something else? Photo might help.

Aside, that's pretty neat--and uncommon--to come to the ukulele by way of the Risa stick as a first instrument. I have a soprano stick. Oh, and Hix Brothers in Aurora has some neat (some high end) ukes to play around with. :)

coolkayaker1
05-19-2014, 06:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_CknREHR-w

There are a ton of videos on stringing, but I like Gordon from Mya-Moe on this one. Why? He is very precise about the wrapping method, which is particularly important for the A string, which is the one most prone to slipping/unwinding because of its thinness.

66899

It should sort of look like this, Tim, by catching the string within the wraps (as Gordon says). Note to wrap the strings downward on the peg (not upward; the photo is of a guitar wrap and it too much upward, plus it is not wrapped enough turns for a non-steel uke string) for two reason: if you wrap upward, you might run out of peg before you get it all wrapped on there, and most importantly, by spiraling the wrap down the peg shaft, you will increase the break angle of the string over the nut, which is a boon for intonation and sound.

NewMexicoKid
05-20-2014, 02:01 AM
66905

Thanks for the quick reply, ck1. Three of the current pegs apparently wind up out towards the tip of the peg (AEC). So, yes, some of the wound loops of the A string are consistently slipping off of the pegs.

To fix this, do I need to get a replacement A string? I.e., is there a way to get it to wind the other way with the string that is there? Or do I need to take that one out and get an entirely new string?

Also, it occurred to me that maybe I'm tuning this too high. Should the A on a tenor be A4?

Thanks!

Jim Hanks
05-20-2014, 02:08 AM
You can certainly try to unwind the string completely and wind it the other way and see if that helps.

I have accidentally tried to tune an octave too high on guitars before but it is unlikely you'll get there without the string snapping. The A string should be the exact same pitch as the 2nd fret of the G string or 5th fret of the E string.

coolkayaker1
05-20-2014, 06:01 AM
Jim is, as usual, spot on about the A tuning; I don't think you could be a scale too high. Many youtube tuning videos with examples...just see if your A sounds like theirs.

Every one of those strings is put on wrong. They should wrap downward on all that extra peg below the hole. They will all slip off eventually. As Jim says, you could unwind and try to rewind like on Gordon's videos, or you could buy a new set of strings for $4 to $7 or so and re-do it more easily with longer strings. That's frustrating, I'm sure, to get a new uke with this issue. I feel badly for you. But, re-stringing is easier than it seems (a little harder on the Risa due to odd angles, though) and a necessary part of ukulele playing. But still...ugh!

Olarte
05-20-2014, 06:42 AM
This might be simpler than you think to fix. I have a 3 Risa sticks and while the wounding seems similar to yours, they are all wound in the same direction.

More importantly, you should be able to loose each string at a time, and actually make the string a bit shorter so you have less loops.

Actually I just checked and all 3 risa sticks I have the same winding with the string being wound towards the edge of the peg. But unlike yours, they have a couple of less loops so while they go to the edge, they don't go over. Look at the last pic, closeup of the soprano. That one has very few loops....

And if you look at the g string that one is actually wrapped towards the bottom. You don't want to do that with the other three as it will make the angle more sharp, and then prone to breaking again the metal. In this case you want the top strings wound towards the edge to make the angle a bit less.

While Coolyaker1 has a point about looking like they are not wound right, the risa has a unique type of tuning so winding towards the edge is completely fine.

I think you just have a few too loops specially with A. I've had two of these for a long time with old and new tuners and never had this issue.

Maybe these pics will help comfirm this.

66907
66908
66909

NewMexicoKid
05-20-2014, 04:46 PM
Olarte, Jim and coolkayaker1--thanks to all three of you for your advice. Thanks also to Roy Cone from ukuleleworld (where I bought my Risa), whose advice matched Olarte's--to make the string shorter so there are fewer loops. Roy was also surprised at the problems that my Risa is having with its initial setup.

Olarte, I tried unwinding the A string till only a couple loops were left on the peg; then I pulled about an inch of the end through and rewound it. Somehow I ended up going toward the wall (away from the end) as coolkayaker1 had suggested; but your caution about angles brought me to unwind it again and help guide it towards the end. The result is as shown:
http://teiru.net/images/risa_runing2.png

I haven't yet trimmed off the end, though I will; I may try to pull yet a bit more through, though I am a little concerned that frequent unwinding and winding may hurt the string as it goes through the metal channels at the round thing (where I recall ukeeku suggested the application of graphite or nut lube or nut sauce (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?53309-Lubricating-RISA-Solid-Uke-Metal-Roller-advice-please)).

Anyway, I'm back in business and strumming away. The A string continues what I am guessing is the settling in process (tends to go flat after a few minutes), but, thanks to this wonderful UU community, I can breathe easier and begin to enjoy my Risa Uke Solid again. Thank you!

coolkayaker1
05-20-2014, 06:12 PM
Olarte, I learned from you. Thanks for your kind correction of my error for Risas. I liked your photos.

NewMexicoKid, I'm glad you're back in beeswax with that neat new instrument.

mm stan
05-20-2014, 08:06 PM
...I may be wrong but this could be the culprit...and aquila are known to take time and alot of stretching...
I also would certainly not put Aquilas on my risa, maybe a fleurocarbon string. I would have less the three wraps around the posts.
Aquilas tend to strech a bit so I would make them tight at the beginning when stringing...the A string may stretch more as it is thinner
also the strings on the tuners should be going the same way, under and over, from the bottom left up toward the right of the posts if from looking from the top.
and when you got it right, the holding uke upwards or sidewards with the neck on the left side, the tuners should turn clockwise....hope it helps
you could thread the strings twice in the post hole to ensure no slipping too.....Good Luck and Happy Strummings
PS if you loosen the strings all the way, you will have to break the strings in again every time and retune often until the string are fully stretched...( gets shorter each time as the more you do it)as the string is older and prestretched....

Olarte
05-20-2014, 09:58 PM
Good point from Stan regarding aquilas, they are more stretchy than others.

I like flurocarbon strings myself. Either worth or PHD strings for me.

You also only need a few loops around the peg, like you see in the soprano pic... So the last loop is not at the very end of the peg.

It sounds like you are all set. One question, did you change the strings yourself or did it come with the strings attached like you first described? Cause it should have come all set with the string sound properly etc.

Anyways enjoy the risa, it rocks. I love them for quiet practice as well as for jazz and other stuff when amplified.

Aloha!
Ivan

NewMexicoKid
05-21-2014, 01:16 AM
Good point from Stan regarding aquilas, they are more stretchy than others.

I like flurocarbon strings myself. Either worth or PHD strings for me.

You also only need a few loops around the peg, like you see in the soprano pic... So the last loop is not at the very end of the peg.

It sounds like you are all set. One question, did you change the strings yourself or did it come with the strings attached like you first described? Cause it should have come all set with the string sound properly etc.

Anyways enjoy the risa, it rocks. I love them for quiet practice as well as for jazz and other stuff when amplified.

Aloha!
Ivan

Thanks, Ivan. I haven't changed any of the strings--these are the ones that the Risa came with. I was surprised too--every review I had read had said that Risa Uke Solids came with a good initial setup.

Stan, all of the tuning keys turn counter clockwise to attain higher tension under their current (original) set up.

SteveZ
05-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Have my RISA Solid Soprano tuned GDAE using Aquila's soprano 5th package. Amen on the Aquila strings being "stretchy." Worse is the $&&#^% E string which is so fine that I've had two snap during initial tuning. Based on advice on another forum, just got some .018"/.044mm 20lb test monofilament fishing line to replace the E string. The fix works fine, is stronger than the Aquila E, not as "stretchy" as the rest of the Aquila set and doesn't sound bad. Now I have a 100yard spool of E replacement string at the ready....

coolkayaker1
05-22-2014, 04:28 PM
In case you haven't seen it, Tim, here's a great older review of the Risa (alto) from Mr. Petergal from Illinois, and plenty of feedback (watch for the snapping A string).
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?57687-Risa-Uke-Solid-Concert-Review&highlight=stevepetergal+risa


And, of course, Petey Houdini's outstanding review on youtube from two weeks ago. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ5Qp2PGXl0

NewMexicoKid
05-23-2014, 02:34 AM
In case you haven't seen it, Tim, here's a great older review of the Risa (alto) from Mr. Petergal from Illinois, and plenty of feedback (watch for the snapping A string).
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?57687-Risa-Uke-Solid-Concert-Review&highlight=stevepetergal+risa

And, of course, Petey Houdini's outstanding review on youtube from two weeks ago. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ5Qp2PGXl0

Thanks, Steve. These reviews were instrumental in my decision to get the Risa (tenor). :-) Now I just need to find my way through the massive online resources to teach myself how to play it :-)

coolkayaker1
05-23-2014, 03:25 AM
http://youtu.be/dR19YEJtMy8

Jim Dville, a respected UU member, is a great teacher and has now, I think, 26 videos on uke for beginners. Here's a link to his latest, but you can scroll back to the first where he starts extremely basically and goes from there. Hard to find such orderly progression of videos on Utube as Jim has done here. If you do those videos, in order, you'll have an outstanding start to jump into uke tutorials of your favorite songs from there.

NewMexicoKid
05-23-2014, 07:08 AM
http://youtu.be/dR19YEJtMy8

Jim Dville, a respected UU member, is a great teacher and has now, I think, 26 videos on uke for beginners. Here's a link to his latest, but you can scroll back to the first where he starts extremely basically and goes from there. Hard to find such orderly progression of videos on Utube as Jim has done here. If you do those videos, in order, you'll have an outstanding start to jump into uke tutorials of your favorite songs from there.

Thanks, Steve! This looks excellent.

--Tim

Louis0815
06-03-2014, 09:39 AM
Have you ever thought of asking RISA directly (contact details (https://www.ukulele.de/shop4/en/Imprint)) about your tuning problems? Rigk Sauer is for sure the best advisor when it comes to RISA ukuleles...

I'd try to fix the strings on the peg like Gordon does here (approx 0:57-3:40): one full round around the peg, then twice through the hole and capturing the slack end whilst winding up

http://youtu.be/4nrCvmcY9oA