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Timbuck
06-11-2014, 02:54 AM
In another thread..I discussed some awkward Honduros Mahogany that was giving me problems in the bending process...Today I decided to do a bit of experimenting to try and sort it out...I still had 4 sets of Honduran soprano sides left....First I tried bending one set in the bender bone dry, like I've seen done at the Taylor factory...It may be ok on guitar sides..But with the tight soprano 1" Radius bends it was disaster:( both cracked and the spring back was about 50%

2nd set, I bent e'm as i normally do with a light sprinkle of water but this time i went more slowly with a little extra heat..Result Creases :(

3rd set, I found that you can't buy Supersoft 2 or any veneer sotener on ebay in the UK..So I improvised I borrowed some washing up liquid from the kitchen.... wet the sides with water then rubbed in a spot of the washing liquid into the waist area both sides, and it went all foamy..
I then put them in the bender and tried again "Eureka" this time it worked ...no cracking, no creasing, just a nice smooth bend.:D

4th set, I just followed the same procedure and these came out ok as well.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/shiregreenbod/IMG_1179_zps914c845f.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/shiregreenbod/media/IMG_1179_zps914c845f.jpg.html)

David Newton
06-11-2014, 03:30 AM
I think Supersoft is a mixture with glycerine in it.
The only problem with washing-up soap is what happens if it gets all foamy and bubbly in the middle of your favorite song?

Doc_J
06-11-2014, 03:32 AM
Ken, brilliant! I've yet to see any problem you can't solve. What led you to try dish liquid?

pondweed
06-11-2014, 03:33 AM
great news! So which ones are those in the photo? 2nd and 3rd... or 3rd and 4th?

Presumably the WUL has somehow spread the tension over a wider area, so 'tightening' occurs but doesn't concentrate/collapse into a single disruptive crease?

Timbuck
06-11-2014, 03:54 AM
Ken, brilliant! I've yet to see any problem you can't solve. What led you to try dish liquid?
Well!....I've noticed it makes my hands nice and soft when I do the dishes.....once or twice a year;)

Timbuck
06-11-2014, 03:59 AM
great news! So which ones are those in the photo? 2nd and 3rd

Those are a matching pair of the 4th set...I bend e'm in sets two at a time.

ksquine
06-11-2014, 04:07 AM
Yeah but the phone always rings when you get your hands all foamy

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-11-2014, 06:36 AM
Interesting. Are you talking about liquid dish soap? I'm always reluctant to add anything to or treat the wood with anything that might affect the finish.
BTW, I think the "trick" to Taylor's bending is the extreme amount of pressure they use. So much that you can see steam escape from the dry wood while they are bending it. When bending curly koa I try to use as much pressure as I can. I don't worry too much about water.

Timbuck
06-11-2014, 07:29 AM
Yes Chuck...The sort you squirt into the sink when washing greasy plates and stuff.
The first thing I did when it came out of the bender was test it with stain and FP to see it caused any problems with adhesion etc:....and all seamed to be OK....I'll really know at the end when the final finish goes on.

Michael Smith
06-11-2014, 09:36 AM
My bud that used to work for Taylor says they soak the koa overnight.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-11-2014, 10:38 AM
My bud that used to work for Taylor says they soak the koa overnight.

In their video they claim they dry their wood to 4% and that they bend dry. Maybe they've changed things up. I know when I bend curly koa I use very little water, just a light spritz. Then again I'm using so many layers of stainless steel and such (7 in total) the wood has no choice but to conform.

ukuleleCraig
06-11-2014, 01:03 PM
[QUOTE=Timbuck;1536312]In another thread..I discussed some awkward Honduros Mahogany that was giving me problems in the bending process...Today I decided to do a bit of experimenting to try and sort it out...I still had 4 sets of Honduran soprano sides left....First I tried bending one set in the bender bone dry, like I've seen done at the Taylor factory...It may be ok on guitar sides..But with the tight soprano 1" Radius bends it was disaster:( both cracked and the spring back was about 50%

2nd set, I bent e'm as i normally do with a light sprinkle of water but this time i went more slowly with a little extra heat..Result Creases :(

3rd set, I found that you can't buy Supersoft 2 or any veneer sotener on ebay in the UK..So I improvised I borrowed some washing up liquid from the kitchen.... wet the sides with water then rubbed in a spot of the washing liquid into the waist area both sides, and it went all foamy..
I then put them in the bender and tried again "Eureka" this time it worked ...no cracking, no creasing, just a nice smooth bend.:D/QUOTE]

Makes me proud to be a Yorkshire man when I see the problems you get round or improvise around Ken.
Truly, there is a lot to be said for Fairy liquid. As a builder I actually always carry a bottle in my van, and it comes In handy for many things:

i sometimes use it for Gobo - as it makes it more pliable.
it's great for lubricating plastic plumb fitting when they're a tight fit.
If I haven't got any gas detecting spray - I do it the old fashioned way with fairy.
on occasion I've even use it on my oil stone when the WD40 has expired it's last spray.
and of course it's great to clean my hands after a mucky job - moisturises too of course.

But now it will be on standby if I ever need it for my Uke builds.
Cheers Ken - sometimes I think is it worth it on here, because of a minority who spoil it. You on the other hand are what this forum is about, and I know many will agree.

Best regards
Craig, Sheffield, South Yorkshire ;)

Kevin Waldron
06-11-2014, 05:16 PM
Ken,

You can use a liquid clothes softner like Downy or other ( one cap full per gallon....... allow the sides to soak with the mixture on them overnight after a adequate spray to cover sides with the clothing softner mixture then bend next day)....... think that dish washing soap will allow the finish to yellow/brown and not offer a consistent finish with age. ( We don't seem to have a problem if we use aluminum foil wrap on the material after a light sprintz without softner in our benders but we do use softner on our curly materials like maple and other figured materials)

Blessings,

Kevin

aaronckeim
06-12-2014, 05:26 AM
Sounds great Timbuck!

We have had good luck lately adding blue 3m tape to the wood in tight bends. It tends to fix wrinkles and grain lifting/tearing.

BlueLatitude
06-12-2014, 05:31 AM
The only problem with washing-up soap is what happens if it gets all foamy and bubbly in the middle of your favorite song?

It's OK as long as your favourite song is Tiny Bubbles.

ukuleleCraig
06-12-2014, 05:37 AM
We have had good luck lately adding blue 3m tape to the wood in tight bends. It tends to fix wrinkles and grain lifting/tearing.

Hi Aaron
3m blue tape..? Could you supply a link for the product so we can take a look?

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
06-12-2014, 06:24 AM
Sounds great Timbuck!

We have had good luck lately adding blue 3m tape to the wood in tight bends. It tends to fix wrinkles and grain lifting/tearing.

Haha, I've been doing that for years. Thought I was he only one! I think it works because it keeps water away from the area ( as well as providing a small degree of compression). As I mentioned before I use almost no water when I bend.

Allen
06-12-2014, 09:47 AM
How are you applying the 3M tape? Is it along the grain through the area of the waist on the show side?

aaronckeim
06-12-2014, 03:47 PM
Ukulelecraig: It is just the normal blue tape from the hardware store used to mask off for painting. I am sure a quick google will find it.

Allen- we are putting it on show side and inside at waist and cutaway. Cross ways all the way around the side. It also works great for bending wood binding.

Chuck- Char uses quite a bit of water with good success. I am not sure what temp she is doing figured woods to right now, but it is working. So many ways to skin a cat!

By the way, we just figured out that one of our heating blankets was so old that it had cold spots and areas that didn't even work. (it probably had 1000 ukes under it's belt, we gave it a proper hero's burial) We quickly bought some new ones, but discovered that there are different electrical ratings and heating elements per square inch. Gordon said it was pretty hard to find the one he wanted online!

Allen
06-12-2014, 07:11 PM
My last blanket died after 7 years of work. I ended up getting a couple to replace the one. And yes, they do come in different wattages. These are 750 watts as the last one was a bit too hot for my liking. One small lapse of concentration and a side set was turned into charcoal.

Pete Howlett
06-12-2014, 07:22 PM
That blue tape reacts to nitro cellulose lacquer (it strips it!) and has incredible adhesion when heated. Best used for masking fingerboards while spraying.... Be careful.

Ron B
06-13-2014, 03:36 AM
I've been leaving the sides immersed in a 3' piece of plastic sewer pipe anywhere from 3 hours to overnight. I bend them on one large and one small pipe section with 100W lightbulbs inside. The wood is pretty dry by the time I'm finished, but I clamp them up overnight before I do anything else with them. I haven't used any wood varieties yet that don't cooperate with this arrangement. Any times when I've damaged something, I have myself to blame for trying to go too fast.

ukuleleCraig
06-14-2014, 01:38 AM
Ukulelecraig: It is just the normal blue tape from the hardware store used to mask off for painting. I am sure a quick google will find it.

Thanks for the clarification Aaron. I just wasn't sure if it was a different product as we call it masking tape. Yep, used it loads but never as you describe.

Also, just wanted to ask if anyone uses the over bend method to compensate for spring back when setting the sides. I remember it being mentioned a while ago. If so, is it worth it?