Nut and Saddle

BigD

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Im in the process of buying an inexpensive bari (makala) to try out and im thinkin of simple things i can do to try and improve on the sound for a small amount of cash. So my question is does putting in a bone or ebony nut and or saddle really make a difference? Like REALLY make a difference? Its been discussed how the way a uke is built has a much much bigger role in the sound it will produce compared to the wood used, so does this apply to the nut/saddle as well? Is there such thing as a well made plastic nut?
 
There are some who swear bone nuts are superior. I met a guy who works for one of the major guitar companies and his job is to set up and maintain all the sponsored musician's instruments (the people whose records we buy). He prefers the synthetic material bones. In his experience, they almost always sound better and are more consistent from nut-to-nut.
 
Im in the process of buying an inexpensive bari (makala) to try out and im thinkin of simple things i can do to try and improve on the sound for a small amount of cash. So my question is does putting in a bone or ebony nut and or saddle really make a difference? Like REALLY make a difference? Its been discussed how the way a uke is built has a much much bigger role in the sound it will produce compared to the wood used, so does this apply to the nut/saddle as well? Is there such thing as a well made plastic nut?


I don't use animal by products
so for me I wouldn't use them personally
but I hear bone sounds better. I have a
cheap rogue baritone and what really
improved the sound for me was switching
out the cheap stock strings for living water
strings and it transformed the 40 dollar
uke into sounding like a 150 dollar uke.
is start with strings and replacing the but
and saddle and adjusting the action def
will not hurt.
 
From the "pure physics" angle, there's likely to be very little measurable (let alone audible) difference beween any hard plastic or bone saddle, assuming them to be mechanically identical in every dimension. If you play "up the neck", a compensated saddle will possibly prove advantageous, for intonation purposes. As for the nut, any hard material should be perfectly adequate. Just bear in mind, if a saddle or nut is being marketed as being superior, it may well be, but more likely because of quality manufacture rather than material. Making a superior saddle from some obscure (read over-priced) material may simply be an excuse to increase the mark-up ... ymmv ;)
 
It probably isn't that important on low end or medium quality ukes. What follows is pure theory based on some science classes I had a solid C+ in 30some years ago... So, it could be absolute b.s.

Your nut keeps the strings off the fret board. That's really all it does... so a bone nut isn't going to net any real bonus. Vibrations produced from that end have to travel the length of the neck to create sound in the ukes body. Since the neck is a solid chunk of wood, this is not a very efficient way to create sound, which makes the material of the nut more or less irrelevant.

The saddle transmits vibrations through the bridge and into the body of the uke. That block of wood probably retards the vibration enough that it really wouldn't matter, unless the wooden part of the bridge were of a high quality, dense wood. If it's true that the harder the saddle is the more effectively vibration would be transmitted through the wooden bridge, then brass would probably be an even better material for a saddle than bone. Most hardware stores sell brass bar stock small enough to make a bridge out of with a little sanding and polishing. Unfortunately, even going through brass, the vibration of the strings would still be retarded by the block of wood underneath the saddle...

Transmitting the vibrations more directly from the strings to the body of the uke would probably net higher gains. A banjolele style bridge would probably be much more efficient. Unfortunately though, a ukulele bridge is designed to secure the strings as well as transmit vibration to the body of the uke, and you can't do that with a banjolele bridge without factoring in a new and exciting way to fasten the strings.

At that point you wouldn't have a ukulele anymore, lol, you'd gave a 4 string mandolin...
 
I can probably offer a dissenting view. I had a Cole Clark Jack Tenor for a time, the soundboard on those is solid Tas Blackwood and heavily built to accommodate the CC faceblend electronics. I had the TUSQ nut and saddle replaced with bone and it made a noticeable difference to tone, projection and separation. Not a quantum leap, but noticeable. Whether it was the material or the new nut was a better fit in the bridge I can't be sure, but the improvement was noticeable.

I also replaced the cheapo plastic saddle in my son's low-medium spec acoustic guitar with bone. Improvement to my ears was noticeable...a bit brighter tone, a bit more sustain. Again, not dramatic but noticeable.
 
Biggest difference I've heard is when you swap out a cheap plastic nut/saddle. Some are actually soft plastic! I bought a friend a rogue baritone and the bottom of the saddle looked like it was cut with a steak knife. It was real flexible and soft. If your nut and saddle are of a soft material you should notice a difference if you swap it out with a tusq or corian material.

Here is a guy comparing fossilized walrus ivory with fossilized mastodon ivory guitar nuts.

http://www.maurysmusic.com/fossilized_mammoth_ivory_saddle___todd_s_review
 
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A few years ago (like 30 or more?) Brass bridge saddles and nuts were popular for guitars. I added a brass nut and bridge to my 1967 Yamaha 6 string and it was SO much louder, way more sustain everyone was amazed. On the other hand, intonation was way off starting about the 5th fret . . .

Maybe the improvement was due to the density of the brass??

bobinde
 
Interesting topic. The only things I read here and on various web sites are opinions. It would be better to read actual independent scientific studies of the acoustical properties of such nuts and settles. Comparative graphics would also be a big help. Otherwise, it's all just very subjective opinions.
 
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The TUSQ people have a (promotional) graph or two on their site ... but I don't know what they mean.
... understandably! The Tusq graph purports to show volume diminishing to about 3.5 seconds and then, by some "magic", it's 10dB louder again at 4.75 seconds ... and that's just for the Tusq saddle, their sample bone saddle has even more stunning properties!! As for the mystical "projection" and the like ... smoke and mirrors ... fancy marketing-speak for properties that can't somehow be defined in mathematical terms!
 
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Ok so it can make a difference, especially in budget, factory produced ukes? But only maybe? lol i know its all subjective but is there a specific material that is best or more prefered? Bone,ebony. whatever other kinda crazy stuff ppl stick on there?
 
so it can make a difference, especially in budget, factory produced ukes?
Only in cheaply-made budget factory produced ukes. Well-made budget factory produced ukes will probably have a sufficiently decent saddle to get a decent sound out of the instrument ... even my "Vintage"-brand economically-priced instrument with it's all-wood bridge/saddle assembly sounds perfectly fine with a set of Aquila strings on it!

lol i know its all subjective but is there a specific material that is best or more prefered?
... more preferred by the manufacturer, probably the most expensive-sounding material you could think of ... fossilised mastadon tusk, perhaps ;) Anything that the punter that doesn't know any better will pay for. In the real world, any reasonably hard material of the correct dimensions will be fine!
 
Manufacturers must love injection molded saddles and nuts. It's way more easy to reach into the ready made box of parts, than it is to make one. Slap on a hang tag promoting that your instruments are equipped with the latest acoustic material, and you're rolling.

All of my guitars and ukes have bone nuts and saddles and I know it makes a difference for me. ;)
 
An experienced luthier can make a bone uke string nut from a raw blank to slotted, polished, and ready to go in about 20 minutes. Of course that after making hundreds of them.

There are CNC carved pre-slotted bone string nuts available that are fairly nicely shaped, and check out Zero-glide nuts...a string nut/guide with a built in zero fret. Very cool.
 
Hi Rick,
I've noticed a lot of Chinese built ukuleles and guitars with CNC cut nuts and saddles lately, and some of the compensated saddles are dead on. Cordoba uses a CNC'd nut on its classical guitars, and it looks a bit like a Lego piece, but they can be sanded to look nice.
 
Yep, it's a mistake to think that using a CNC machine is cheating or doing things on the cheap. In the right hands, they are fantastic tools for exactly cutting and carving what one as a designer intends. We're right in the middle of tooling up our machine to make the uke necks, fingerboards, bridges, and even neck and tail blocks (to get the radius just right). Yes, it will save on labor, but the luthier-hours can then go into more creative projects.

Nobody who is serious about production of more than a few ukes a month...or a year...will be able to make a go of it without CNC help in the future. We're now using CNC laser cut parts and 3D printed parts in the pickups I make, and I'm not looking back. These tools are making US production possible and practical.
 
It probably isn't that important on low end or medium quality ukes. What follows is pure theory based on some science classes I had a solid C+ in 30some years ago... So, it could be absolute b.s.

Your nut keeps the strings off the fret board. That's really all it does... so a bone nut isn't going to net any real bonus. Vibrations produced from that end have to travel the length of the neck to create sound in the ukes body. Since the neck is a solid chunk of wood, this is not a very efficient way to create sound, which makes the material of the nut more or less irrelevant.

The saddle transmits vibrations through the bridge and into the body of the uke. That block of wood probably retards the vibration enough that it really wouldn't matter, unless the wooden part of the bridge were of a high quality, dense wood. If it's true that the harder the saddle is the more effectively vibration would be transmitted through the wooden bridge, then brass would probably be an even better material for a saddle than bone. Most hardware stores sell brass bar stock small enough to make a bridge out of with a little sanding and polishing. Unfortunately, even going through brass, the vibration of the strings would still be retarded by the block of wood underneath the saddle...

That is what I always believed when relating this question to guitars that I have owned. Saddle and Pins in either bone or ivory (either fossil or pre-ban, of course) make the most difference, the nut has very little effect. The premise here though is that the body of the instrument is made out of a well crafted and good tone wood and not a lump of plywood with a pretty coating. If the later is the case I guess any improvement would be marginal.
 
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