String sensitivity

DownUpDave · Jul 2, 2014

I picked up a soprano to use as a car-uke, Islander AS-4 all laminate. I am in sales and sometimes have an hour or more to kill between appointments so I figured great time to practice.

Here is my question: are Aquilas and or nylon strings more sensitive to temperature and humidity changes than florocarbon. The uke has Aquilas and I don't mind the sound, could probably leave them on. I am in and out of the car about three times a day for about 1-1/2 hrs at a time. I will leave the uke in the passenger compartment but it still gets pretty hot in the car during the summer and really cold in the winter. The uke will be coming into my house at the end of every day.

What has been your experience with nylon vs florocarbon string regarding temp and humidity changes.

sukie · Jul 2, 2014

I use T2s on my ukulele. If I take it outside to play on nice days, it Immediately goes out of tune. It hates the sun. Since I LOVE the sun it stays inside a lot. I don't know what type of strings they are. sorry.

On another note -- it doesn't bother me a bit that I have to tune it up every day when I play. It's just a teeny-weeny tuning, but it's no big deal to me.

SailQwest · Jul 2, 2014

In my experience, uke selection is a huge factor in tuning stability in dramatically-changing environments, while string selection is a very tiny factor. Our most environmentally-abused ukes are currently strung with Oasis, Southcoasts, Aquilas, and Worth Browns.

Use the strings you like best.

Nickie · Jul 2, 2014

It depends on the materials used to make the uke....a plastic Flea, for example, will 'move' way less than a wooden uke....which can cause changes in tuning....I'm sure someone with more expertise will chime in here....

iamesperambient · Jul 2, 2014

DownUpDave said:
I picked up a soprano to use as a car-uke. I am in sales and sometimes have an hour or more to kill between appointments so I figured great time to practice.

Here is my question: are Aquilas and or nylon strings more sensitive to temperature and humidity changes than florocarbon. The uke has Aquilas and I don't mind the sound, could probably leave them on. I am in and out of the car about three times a day for about 1-1/2 hrs at a time. I will leave the uke in the passenger compartment but it still gets pretty hot in the car during the summer and really cold in the winter. The uke will be coming into my house at the end of every day.

What has been your experience with nylon vs florocarbon string regarding temp and humidity changes.

I feel like something like am out door uke
would be a good uke for leaving In a car
I'm actually considering the tenor model
not sure if it's out yet though for this kind of thing

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

Polyamides (nylon) typically have a higher cte (coefficient of thermal expansion) and moisture absorbsion than fluorocarbons. That said, who knows what they put in the recipe to get the perfect string. Other industries spin higher volumes than the instrument market so it's probably a secondary market for chemistries developed for the primary market.

Or in other words, yes they stretch differently with temp and humidity.

DownUpDave · Jul 3, 2014

One of the main reasons I tossed this question out there was "Old Phart" has written a few times that he noticed Aquilas are very unstable in changing temps and humidity. Being new and never having an instrument in and out of the car all the time I thought maybe florocarbon strings are more stable.

As another member said, just a little tuning each time, no big deal. Was just womdering what the experience of others were.

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

DownUpDave said:
One of the main reasons I tossed this question out there was "Old Phart" has written a few times that he noticed Aquilas are very unstable in changing temps and humidity. Being new and never having an instrument in and out of the car all the time I thought maybe florocarbon strings are more stable.

As another member said, just a little tuning each time, no big deal. Was just womdering what the experience of others were.

The science says they should be better but the wood changes with heat and moisture as well so it will probably need tuning anyway. At work we measured trailers on the dock on a 105F day (40C) and got temps up to 180F. I have measured 165F inside my car. With swings that high from room temp, it's going to be affected. From an old post I know Old phart lives a few miles from me so his summer days are the same as those I measured.

Andy Chen · Jul 3, 2014

I'm located in Singapore, where I have to move between rather cold air-conditioned places and the hot, humid outdoors. My carbon fiber guitars and ukulele, as well as the Ekoa-made Clara, definitely need retuning.

Given than carbon fiber and Ekoa are supposed to be impervious to temperature and humidity changes, I am guessing it's the strings that react to the changes that require retuning.

SailQwest · Jul 3, 2014

When temperatures get much into triple digits, glue failure becomes an issue. Bridges in particular like to pop off. Not a happy thing. (On super-hot days a Risa is my take-along uke.)

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

Andy Chen said:
I'm located in Singapore, where I have to move between rather cold air-conditioned places and the hot, humid outdoors. My carbon fiber guitars and ukulele, as well as the Ekoa-made Clara, definitely need retuning.

Given than carbon fiber and Ekoa are supposed to be impervious to temperature and humidity changes, I am guessing it's the strings that react to the changes that require retuning.

I'm a materials guy specializing in composites. Keep in mind "impervious" means it won't be harmed, not it won't stretch or swell a little bit with big fluctuations. Carbon has a low cte but epoxies can pick up 1 to 2% of their weight in moisture with enough time and humidity. The strings are probably your culprit though.

Andy Chen · Jul 3, 2014

Dearman said:
I'm a materials guy specializing in composites. Keep in mind "impervious" means it won't be harmed, not it won't stretch or swell a little bit with big fluctuations. Carbon has a low cte but epoxies can pick up 1 to 2% of their weight in moisture with enough time and humidity. The strings are probably your culprit though.

Thanks for the clarification!

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

Andy,

I should have mentioned your finish isn't impervious to sunlight. Eventually it will start to look brown so don't leave it laying out in direct sunlight for long periods.

Rick Turner · Jul 3, 2014

"At work we measured trailers on the dock on a 105F day (40C) and got temps up to 180F. I have measured 165F inside my car. With swings that high from room temp, it's going to be affected.

These trailer and inside car temperatures are way past the softening and melting temperature of most wood glues currently used to build ukes. Not good. Anything over about 120 F for more than a few minutes is going to be a real issue for the instrument. SailQuest is right.

Also, not all finishes are photo-sensitive. Nitro lacquer certainly is, poly finishes not so much. But the underlying wood may be photo-sensitive. Some woods like Western red cedar, mahogany, cherry, and spruce to name a few will darken with exposure to light and oxygen. Some like walnut will tend to bleach out with age and exposure.

ricdoug · Jul 3, 2014

For 150F to 180F degrees http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=e8d40b45-0ab3-49f7-8a9c-b53970f736af

Andy Chen · Jul 3, 2014

Dearman said:
Andy,

I should have mentioned your finish isn't impervious to sunlight. Eventually it will start to look brown so don't leave it laying out in direct sunlight for long periods.

Thanks for the advice. I definitely don't leave it in the sunlight. I don't even walk in the sun, if I can help it, when I am carrying my instruments.

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

Rick Turner said:
Also, not all finishes are photo-sensitive. Nitro lacquer certainly is, poly finishes not so much. But the underlying wood may be photo-sensitive. Some woods like Western red cedar, mahogany, cherry, and spruce to name a few will darken with exposure to light and oxygen. Some like walnut will tend to bleach out with age and exposure.

The finish I was referring to was the clear coat on his carbon epoxy uke but thanks for filling in what happens to woods as well. Poly will eventually be affected as well. Anyone with a wood garage door in Texas has seen that poly eventually weather away but I don't think many instruments will be left outside for years.

Dearman · Jul 3, 2014

Bill1;1547071 If you are bored and have the time said:
Saturation is a slow process. With an average humidity of 80% in Singapore he will probably only see changes when left in a dehumidified home or office long enough to lose some of that moisture.

Ukuleleblues · Jul 3, 2014

Rick Turner said:
"These trailer and inside car temperatures are way past the softening and melting temperature of most wood glues currently used to build ukes. Not good. Anything over about 120 F for more than a few minutes is going to be a real issue for the instrument. SailQuest is right.

As a kid I had an old Eko guitar. I left it in an attic in the heat, when I opened the case it was disassembled. top, sides, braces, etc. It looked like a kit. I've been told to treat your wood instruments like a person, If it is too hot for you, it's too hot for your instrument.

Never had any string issues other than they go flat when it gets warm and sharp when it gets cold. Worth CMs appear to be a fairly stable string. I have had other brands that went #/b when you breathed on them, drove me nuts.

Rick Turner · Jul 3, 2014

Note the "overnight" failure of Titebond 3...complete glue failure at 150 F...no wood loss, just adhesive failure, and I'd bet it doesn't take overnight exposure to achieve that result. What they don't show is what happens in that 120 to 150 region. It's not good! And this is supposed to be the ultimate glue...

For more on independent testing of HHG, go over to www.frets.com and read what Frank Ford, arguably one of the best repair luthiers in the country, has to say about it.

String sensitivity

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