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DownUpDave
07-02-2014, 09:50 AM
I picked up a soprano to use as a car-uke, Islander AS-4 all laminate. I am in sales and sometimes have an hour or more to kill between appointments so I figured great time to practice.

Here is my question: are Aquilas and or nylon strings more sensitive to temperature and humidity changes than florocarbon. The uke has Aquilas and I don't mind the sound, could probably leave them on. I am in and out of the car about three times a day for about 1-1/2 hrs at a time. I will leave the uke in the passenger compartment but it still gets pretty hot in the car during the summer and really cold in the winter. The uke will be coming into my house at the end of every day.

What has been your experience with nylon vs florocarbon string regarding temp and humidity changes.

sukie
07-02-2014, 10:37 AM
I use T2s on my ukulele. If I take it outside to play on nice days, it Immediately goes out of tune. It hates the sun. Since I LOVE the sun it stays inside a lot. I don't know what type of strings they are. sorry.

On another note -- it doesn't bother me a bit that I have to tune it up every day when I play. It's just a teeny-weeny tuning, but it's no big deal to me.

SailQwest
07-02-2014, 11:42 AM
In my experience, uke selection is a huge factor in tuning stability in dramatically-changing environments, while string selection is a very tiny factor. Our most environmentally-abused ukes are currently strung with Oasis, Southcoasts, Aquilas, and Worth Browns.

Use the strings you like best. :D

Nickie
07-02-2014, 11:59 AM
It depends on the materials used to make the uke....a plastic Flea, for example, will 'move' way less than a wooden uke....which can cause changes in tuning....I'm sure someone with more expertise will chime in here....

iamesperambient
07-02-2014, 12:38 PM
I picked up a soprano to use as a car-uke. I am in sales and sometimes have an hour or more to kill between appointments so I figured great time to practice.

Here is my question: are Aquilas and or nylon strings more sensitive to temperature and humidity changes than florocarbon. The uke has Aquilas and I don't mind the sound, could probably leave them on. I am in and out of the car about three times a day for about 1-1/2 hrs at a time. I will leave the uke in the passenger compartment but it still gets pretty hot in the car during the summer and really cold in the winter. The uke will be coming into my house at the end of every day.

What has been your experience with nylon vs florocarbon string regarding temp and humidity changes.
I feel like something like am out door uke
would be a good uke for leaving In a car
I'm actually considering the tenor model
not sure if it's out yet though for this kind of thing

Dearman
07-02-2014, 03:32 PM
Polyamides (nylon) typically have a higher cte (coefficient of thermal expansion) and moisture absorbsion than fluorocarbons. That said, who knows what they put in the recipe to get the perfect string. Other industries spin higher volumes than the instrument market so it's probably a secondary market for chemistries developed for the primary market.

Or in other words, yes they stretch differently with temp and humidity.

DownUpDave
07-02-2014, 04:52 PM
One of the main reasons I tossed this question out there was "Old Phart" has written a few times that he noticed Aquilas are very unstable in changing temps and humidity. Being new and never having an instrument in and out of the car all the time I thought maybe florocarbon strings are more stable.

As another member said, just a little tuning each time, no big deal. Was just womdering what the experience of others were.

Dearman
07-02-2014, 05:38 PM
One of the main reasons I tossed this question out there was "Old Phart" has written a few times that he noticed Aquilas are very unstable in changing temps and humidity. Being new and never having an instrument in and out of the car all the time I thought maybe florocarbon strings are more stable.

As another member said, just a little tuning each time, no big deal. Was just womdering what the experience of others were.

The science says they should be better but the wood changes with heat and moisture as well so it will probably need tuning anyway. At work we measured trailers on the dock on a 105F day (40C) and got temps up to 180F. I have measured 165F inside my car. With swings that high from room temp, it's going to be affected. From an old post I know Old phart lives a few miles from me so his summer days are the same as those I measured.

Andy Chen
07-02-2014, 05:46 PM
I'm located in Singapore, where I have to move between rather cold air-conditioned places and the hot, humid outdoors. My carbon fiber guitars and ukulele, as well as the Ekoa-made Clara, definitely need retuning.

Given than carbon fiber and Ekoa are supposed to be impervious to temperature and humidity changes, I am guessing it's the strings that react to the changes that require retuning.

SailQwest
07-02-2014, 05:47 PM
When temperatures get much into triple digits, glue failure becomes an issue. Bridges in particular like to pop off. Not a happy thing. (On super-hot days a Risa is my take-along uke.)

Dearman
07-02-2014, 05:56 PM
I'm located in Singapore, where I have to move between rather cold air-conditioned places and the hot, humid outdoors. My carbon fiber guitars and ukulele, as well as the Ekoa-made Clara, definitely need retuning.

Given than carbon fiber and Ekoa are supposed to be impervious to temperature and humidity changes, I am guessing it's the strings that react to the changes that require retuning.

I'm a materials guy specializing in composites. Keep in mind "impervious" means it won't be harmed, not it won't stretch or swell a little bit with big fluctuations. Carbon has a low cte but epoxies can pick up 1 to 2% of their weight in moisture with enough time and humidity. The strings are probably your culprit though.

Andy Chen
07-02-2014, 06:02 PM
I'm a materials guy specializing in composites. Keep in mind "impervious" means it won't be harmed, not it won't stretch or swell a little bit with big fluctuations. Carbon has a low cte but epoxies can pick up 1 to 2% of their weight in moisture with enough time and humidity. The strings are probably your culprit though.


Thanks for the clarification!

Dearman
07-02-2014, 06:26 PM
Andy,

I should have mentioned your finish isn't impervious to sunlight. Eventually it will start to look brown so don't leave it laying out in direct sunlight for long periods.

Rick Turner
07-02-2014, 06:57 PM
"At work we measured trailers on the dock on a 105F day (40C) and got temps up to 180F. I have measured 165F inside my car. With swings that high from room temp, it's going to be affected.

These trailer and inside car temperatures are way past the softening and melting temperature of most wood glues currently used to build ukes. Not good. Anything over about 120 F for more than a few minutes is going to be a real issue for the instrument. SailQuest is right.

Also, not all finishes are photo-sensitive. Nitro lacquer certainly is, poly finishes not so much. But the underlying wood may be photo-sensitive. Some woods like Western red cedar, mahogany, cherry, and spruce to name a few will darken with exposure to light and oxygen. Some like walnut will tend to bleach out with age and exposure.

ricdoug
07-02-2014, 07:08 PM
For 150F to 180F degrees http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=e8d40b45-0ab3-49f7-8a9c-b53970f736af

Andy Chen
07-02-2014, 07:10 PM
Andy,

I should have mentioned your finish isn't impervious to sunlight. Eventually it will start to look brown so don't leave it laying out in direct sunlight for long periods.

Thanks for the advice. I definitely don't leave it in the sunlight. I don't even walk in the sun, if I can help it, when I am carrying my instruments.

Dearman
07-03-2014, 12:56 AM
Also, not all finishes are photo-sensitive. Nitro lacquer certainly is, poly finishes not so much. But the underlying wood may be photo-sensitive. Some woods like Western red cedar, mahogany, cherry, and spruce to name a few will darken with exposure to light and oxygen. Some like walnut will tend to bleach out with age and exposure.

The finish I was referring to was the clear coat on his carbon epoxy uke but thanks for filling in what happens to woods as well. Poly will eventually be affected as well. Anyone with a wood garage door in Texas has seen that poly eventually weather away but I don't think many instruments will be left outside for years.

Dearman
07-03-2014, 01:06 AM
[QUOTE=Bill1;1547071
If you are bored and have the time, measure your uke from nut to bridge every so often through a daily cycle of hot and cold. I think you will be able to measure a small difference over time.[/QUOTE]

Saturation is a slow process. With an average humidity of 80% in Singapore he will probably only see changes when left in a dehumidified home or office long enough to lose some of that moisture.

Ukuleleblues
07-03-2014, 01:24 AM
"These trailer and inside car temperatures are way past the softening and melting temperature of most wood glues currently used to build ukes. Not good. Anything over about 120 F for more than a few minutes is going to be a real issue for the instrument. SailQuest is right.
As a kid I had an old Eko guitar. I left it in an attic in the heat, when I opened the case it was disassembled. top, sides, braces, etc. It looked like a kit. I've been told to treat your wood instruments like a person, If it is too hot for you, it's too hot for your instrument.

Never had any string issues other than they go flat when it gets warm and sharp when it gets cold. Worth CMs appear to be a fairly stable string. I have had other brands that went #/b when you breathed on them, drove me nuts.

Rick Turner
07-03-2014, 07:03 AM
Note the "overnight" failure of Titebond 3...complete glue failure at 150 F...no wood loss, just adhesive failure, and I'd bet it doesn't take overnight exposure to achieve that result. What they don't show is what happens in that 120 to 150 region. It's not good! And this is supposed to be the ultimate glue...

For more on independent testing of HHG, go over to www.frets.com and read what Frank Ford, arguably one of the best repair luthiers in the country, has to say about it.

DownUpDave
07-07-2014, 11:10 PM
Note the "overnight" failure of Titebond 3...complete glue failure at 150 F...no wood loss, just adhesive failure, and I'd bet it doesn't take overnight exposure to achieve that result. What they don't show is what happens in that 120 to 150 region. It's not good! And this is supposed to be the ultimate glue...

For more on independent testing of HHG, go over to www.frets.com and read what Frank Ford, arguably one of the best repair luthiers in the country, has to say about it.

I am really glad I asked the question about strings because this thread went in an even more interesting direction.

So we experience glue failure starting around 120 degree and "Dearman" has proven in his line of work that internal trailer temps can average 150+. What is going to happen to a uke shipped across country during the summer that is in a trailer for 5 days or more.

Dearman
07-08-2014, 01:12 AM
I am really glad I asked the question about strings because this thread went in an even more interesting direction.

So we experience glue failure starting around 120 degree and "Dearman" has proven in his line of work that internal trailer temps can average 150+. What is going to happen to a uke shipped across country during the summer that is in a trailer for 5 days or more.

If it's moving or open the temps won't get that high. Our experiment was to see if the hot summer was responsible for melting a rubber on racks that melts above 165F. The temperature was 105f during the day and in the high 80s at night. Sitting still on the concrete in front of the dock we hit 180F. I'm sure many many manufacturing defects on many products are really shipment problems, whether sand, salt or dirt but they don't happen frequently enough to require expensive environmental protection.