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View Full Version : I think I'm going down to just one uke



dhoenisch
07-08-2014, 04:49 AM
Well, I think I've decided that I am going down to just one ukulele. I played a couple of different Martin ukes, and I am ready to sell all of my ukes (with the exception of my Outdoor Uke since I do use it for the reason it was built) to buy ONE Martin soprano.

I raised a question about selling all your ukes to get "The One (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?97985-Would-you-have-just-one-uke-if-you-found-THE-ONE)," and I think I will actually do that. I originally posted that because it's what I was thinking I would do, and the input you all shared was quite valuable to me.

So, I think I will slowly be selling off all the ones in my signature, as well as ones that aren't on my signature to fund the "one" vintage Martin. Again, with the exception of the Outdoor Uke.

I'm a bit heartbroken about selling the Roy Smeck and Johnny Marvin (not the airplane one) as they both cost me quite a bit of money, and I had looked for those for some time, so they will be the last to go, especially the Roy Smeck as it's my most comfortable, best sounding, and loudest uke I have, so it's my most played.

Dan

dhoenisch
07-08-2014, 04:52 AM
Another reason I'm going to just one ukulele is, I realized that I'm a bluegrass musician, so it's more the banjo, mandolin and guitar for me. The only time I ever play a uke any longer is in the one uke lesson I give, and during the weekly uke meetup, and I don't even play much the entire time I'm there. I'm sorry to say, but I think I'm bored with the uke. I will never completely give it up as I do enjoy playing a uke from time to time, and there are times where it comes in handy, but I don't gig with the uke, so it's just an instrument for pleasure, and not a working instrument.

Dan

PortlandLeo
07-08-2014, 05:06 AM
I find the Yamaha guitalele to be less limiting. But, I'm not the musician you are: just an average dude with a day job.

janeray1940
07-08-2014, 05:14 AM
Sounds to me like you're making the right decision for all the right reasons. In "The One" discussion, I concluded that I'd be happy with three, but then I play only uke, and both low G and reentrant with equal frequency.

But it just makes sense to me across the board to have just ONE of just about anything, and in each case to have the best you can find/afford/etc. One good low G uke, one good reentrant uke, one good car, one good computer, and so on, rather than multiple examples of each that are "just okay."

wickedwahine11
07-08-2014, 05:18 AM
Your other thread actually spurred me into narrowing down to three ukes, by selling two and donating another two. I still don't think I could ever have just one (I would always want a backup and at least one reentrant and one low g), but I applaud your single-minded ness.

tbeltrans
07-08-2014, 05:36 AM
For me, it is two ukuleles: one is high G and the other is low G. I got two "high end" ukuleles right from the start just because it worked out that way with trading guitars and pedals for ukuleles. If I had to pay for them as one normally does, I am sure I would have worked my way up to these over several years. However, I have since discovered that I would probably have been just as content with "lower-to-midrange" ukuleles, so I am not advocating going this route.

For me, it was a matter of doing a trade for a high G ukulele and then finding out that much of the style I want to play is done with low G ukulele tuning. Rather than having to switch strings on one ukulele, I decided a second ukulele would be better all around.

I see the term "UAS" around here a lot, just as I saw "GAS" in the guitar forums. I friend of mine who set up the deals for my ukuleles, who works in the music store where I got them, has a bit of experiential wisdom about that. He said that for him, shopping for new gear/instruments is almost mutually exclusive with playing them. In other words, if he is PLAYING the instrument(s) he already owns, he is much less interested in acquiring new instruments and associated gear.

Here is a thought (as much a reminder to me as a passing comment here): The more time I spend in the forums, the less time I spend playing, and therefore, the more time I spend thinking about new ukuleles, especially as that is much of the discussion in the forums. So, what do I really want to do with my time? It is quite clear to me that forums become quite the habit and it is here that people talk about UAS as they are getting still another ukulele. Some even ask about a "cure for UAS". How much of an issue would this be if, say, we visited the forum once a week for an hour reading only those posts about playing and associated issues, and spent the rest of our free time PLAYING the ukuleles we already have?

In my own experience thinking about what my friend said, I find the same to be true. I really don't need 10 or 20 ukuleles, and would MUCH rather have one or two very fine instruments rather than 10 or 20 cheaper instruments. It is the idea of spending it all on one thing or spending it a little at a time on a whole bunch of things. When I actually sit down and play my ukuleles, I feel as if I am making progress. When I peruse the forum, I read about new ukuleles and other stuff I can buy for them, but am not making progress (which is when the UAS urges start to gnaw at me, just as my friend said). Different people do it differently according to their needs and interests.

As for owning only one ukulele because that suits your needs, that seems a very sane and reasoned thing to do.

My own concern right now is that, being a long time guitar player, I am really coming to appreciate the apparent simplicity of the ukulele. It is easy to wrap one's head around the 4 strings and seemingly limited possibilities. However, I use the terms "apparent simplicity" and "seemingly limited" for a reason. As I wrap my head around these 4 strings, I am finding they are not limiting. The limitations are really an illusion, as is the general population's idea that the ukulele is a mere toy.

My "concern" is that I am spending my music time on the ukulele and ignoring my guitar. It will be interesting to see how that progresses and resolves over time. I seem to have opened a door to a world of very accessible music making - FAR more relaxed than climbing the mountain that is "guitar".

Tony

DownUpDave
07-08-2014, 05:36 AM
Your other thread actually spurred me into narrowing down to three ukes, by selling two and donating another two. I still don't think I could ever have just one (I would always want a backup and at least one reentrant and one low g), but I applaud your single-minded ness.

I am glad I read this before reading "The other thread" which spurred you into narrowing down. It just might have saved me from an ill fated attempt to be practical. This is a public warning announcement for those of us who want to preserve our state of UAS, don't read "The One" :stop:

All joking aside I do understand where you are going. I did the same with golf clubs but I am an avid player. Too many were just a distraction and worsened my play.

Ukulele Eddie
07-08-2014, 05:44 AM
Well, I think I've decided that I am going down to just one ukulele. I played a couple of different Martin ukes, and I am ready to sell all of my ukes (with the exception of my Outdoor Uke since I do use it for the reason it was built) to buy ONE Martin soprano.

I raised a question about selling all your ukes to get "The One (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?97985-Would-you-have-just-one-uke-if-you-found-THE-ONE)," and I think I will actually do that. I originally posted that because it's what I was thinking I would do, and the input you all shared was quite valuable to me.

So, I think I will slowly be selling off all the ones in my signature, as well as ones that aren't on my signature to fund the "one" vintage Martin. Again, with the exception of the Outdoor Uke.

I'm a bit heartbroken about selling the Roy Smeck and Johnny Marvin (not the airplane one) as they both cost me quite a bit of money, and I had looked for those for some time, so they will be the last to go, especially the Roy Smeck as it's my most comfortable, best sounding, and loudest uke I have, so it's my most played.

Dan

Sounds well-reasoned and I'm sure plenty of folks here will help you execute by snatching up those you're selling. If your Johnny Marvin is in good shape, now is a good time as I recently posted pics of one I acquired and it garnered a lot of interest. See, I'm here for you. ;-)

Good luck, Eddie

dhoenisch
07-08-2014, 05:50 AM
Too many were just a distraction and worsened my play.

I can agree with that view as well. I was kind of going there without saying it. My mom is up to 15-ukes, and when I take her to the meetup, she has the hardest time choosing which one to bring with her. If I had just one, it'd be a no-brainer for me. I would just grab "the uke" and off I go. :)

Leo, I actually have a Cordoba Guilele, but I'm selling it already. I get confused with what I'm playing. I know Southcoast now has "G" tuning strings, but I saw the price, and decided it wasn't worth trying, especially since I've made my decision on just one uke.

Thanks all for your views as well.
Dan

Ukejenny
07-08-2014, 06:16 AM
I think it is a good and healthy thing that you are being true to yourself and your vision. It is a journey for each and every one of us - and we all take a slightly different path.

I have a "the one" clarinet that I've played since 1988. I have a back-up or two, since teaching lessons is my financial contribution to the family, but I only play that one unless it is in the shop (once in 20 years) or need a clarinet outside.

I believe that there is one ukulele out there for me, but I would still have a back-up or two. My tenor never gets played, but my husband likes it, so it is his now. I have a little soprano that I love to fiddle with. Then my concert that I love. I would also like a Blackbird Clara with a low G and a passive pickup. I think that will do it for me.

Icelander53
07-08-2014, 06:24 AM
Hey whatever floats yer boat. My plan was always to buy a lot of uke until I got a feel for what was good and what wasn't and what I needed and liked in a semi perfect uke. So I'm getting there and will also be selling off my stable at some point. I think I'll keep three. One, the Fluke for outdoor and camping use. One strung low and one strung high G.

Rllink
07-08-2014, 06:36 AM
I only have one, but I haven't been at it very long. Since April, so I haven't even learned how to play the one that I have all that well yet. That said, I've really got the hots for an electric acoustic uke and an amp, so we will see how long it is before I end up with two. Probably not for a while yet though.

NewKid
07-08-2014, 09:01 AM
If you're only going to have one then a vintage Martin is a great choice.

One very satisfying thing about my current collection is that whenever I play any of my four ukes I always feel like I could be happy if the one I'm playing was my only uke.

Nickie
07-08-2014, 10:37 AM
Another reason I'm going to just one ukulele is, I realized that I'm a bluegrass musician, so it's more the banjo, mandolin and guitar for me. The only time I ever play a uke any longer is in the one uke lesson I give, and during the weekly uke meetup, and I don't even play much the entire time I'm there. I'm sorry to say, but I think I'm bored with the uke. I will never completely give it up as I do enjoy playing a uke from time to time, and there are times where it comes in handy, but I don't gig with the uke, so it's just an instrument for pleasure, and not a working instrument.

Dan

Dan, I think that is so cool that you can play Bluegrass. I think it is the most difficult music there is to master, save maybe Classical music. I admire anyone that can play it well. I've tried and tried, and I just don't 'get it'. Or my hands don't...I was a disaster as a fiddler....got disgusted and gave it away, and it was a nice one too...
At first, I didn't understand "bored with the ukulele" (my favorite instrument) until I recalled how damn frustrated I got with the fiddle. I hope you never get rid of your last uke, though!

tbeltrans
07-08-2014, 03:08 PM
From what I have seen on occasion in these forums and most any forum I have read on any subject, it is always possible (and probable) that one person's comments can be read in ways very different from the spirit in which they were written. Since I know that some of the points I made in my last post in this thread could touch some sore spots, I wanted to try to make very clear the context in which I intended my comments to be understood. I hope the following takes care of that...

As a followup up to my earlier post, I do want to emphasize that, as far as I am concerned, everybody must do what makes them happy. I hope my comments were clear on that, but if not, hopefully this post will ward off any potential for argument. Also, when I say that I would rather have one "fine" instrument rather than 10 or 20 cheaper instruments, my point is based solely on the math rather than whether a cheaper instrument is a good ukulele. Ten $200 instruments or one $2,000 instrument is what I am talking about rather than whether a $200 instrument can be worth buying and playing. From what I have seen, such an instrument is perfectly fine. Another person may well want 10 $200 instruments, and my preference only applies to me.

Tony

Icelander53
07-08-2014, 03:14 PM
What I want eventually is 10 $2000+ instruments and then a couple of good ones for playing out. :)

janeray1940
07-08-2014, 03:16 PM
Also, when I say that I would rather have one "fine" instrument rather than 10 or 20 cheaper instruments, my point is based solely on the math rather than whether a cheaper instrument is a good ukulele. Ten $200 instruments or one $2,000 instrument is what I am talking about rather than whether a $200 instrument can be worth buying and playing. From what I have seen, such an instrument is perfectly fine. Another person may well want 10 $200 instruments, and my preference only applies to me.


Well said, Tony, and that's the point I was trying to make in my post too - hoping my words don't touch anybody's sore spots either, as that is not my intention.

Icelander53
07-08-2014, 03:37 PM
Do we really have so many tender sensibilities around here that we have to tiptoe with every opinion we have? I'm seriously a little concerned about all the posts I've seen lately addressing the issues of hurt feelings. I honestly have seen no more that a couple of posts that might be considered hostile around here and not one from you that I ever recall.

We're adults. We made it this far right? I think we can handle some differences of opinion without major meltdown. I vote relax and let it all hang out. :cheers:

janeray1940
07-08-2014, 03:39 PM
Do we really have so many tender sensibilities around here that we have to tiptoe with every opinion we have? I'm seriously a little concerned about all the posts I've seen lately addressing the issues of hurt feelings. I honestly have seen no more that a couple of posts that might be considered hostile around here and not one from you that I ever recall.

We're adults. We made it this far right? I think we can handle some differences of opinion without major meltdown. I vote relax and let it all hang out. :cheers:

I agree, but then I've also had my share of incidents around here where I've hurt feelings without intending to. So considering things have been a little touchy around here as of lately, I'm just trying to cover my... tracks :)

Doc_J
07-08-2014, 03:56 PM
Well, I think I've decided that I am going down to just one ukulele. I played a couple of different Martin ukes, and I am ready to sell all of my ukes (with the exception of my Outdoor Uke since I do use it for the reason it was built) to buy ONE Martin soprano.

I raised a question about selling all your ukes to get "The One (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?97985-Would-you-have-just-one-uke-if-you-found-THE-ONE)," and I think I will actually do that. I originally posted that because it's what I was thinking I would do, and the input you all shared was quite valuable to me.

So, I think I will slowly be selling off all the ones in my signature, as well as ones that aren't on my signature to fund the "one" vintage Martin. Again, with the exception of the Outdoor Uke.

I'm a bit heartbroken about selling the Roy Smeck and Johnny Marvin (not the airplane one) as they both cost me quite a bit of money, and I had looked for those for some time, so they will be the last to go, especially the Roy Smeck as it's my most comfortable, best sounding, and loudest uke I have, so it's my most played.

Dan

Sounds like you have a plan. You need the right tool for a specific task. I can see more banjos, mandolins, and guitars as the right tools for bluegrass music.

OK, just 1 uke, but how many banjos, mandolins, and guitars are you going to need. :)

SteveZ
07-08-2014, 04:00 PM
Sounds like you have a plan. You need the right tool for a specific task. I can see more banjos, mandolins, and guitars as the right tools for bluegrass music.

OK, just 1 uke, but how many banjos, mandolins, and guitars are you going to need. :)

Just as there is UAS, there is BAS, MAS, GAS, and even BPAS (bagpipes, know a guy who has three sets of these).....and "need" is really subjective anyway.

Icelander53
07-08-2014, 04:01 PM
But that's what I'm saying. I really don't enjoy posting when I've got to second guess how everyone's going to take everything I say. I mean this is a very friendly place and IMO a not friendly person is going to stick out like a sore thumb. So if you happen to say something that pricks a nerve in me, I'm going to take that into account and not get all bent out of shape. My position is that I'm not trying to do harm and if someone wants to read that into the things I post here that's their problem and they can deal with it. Lifes to short. I want to kick back here and relax and just say what comes to mind. There are no world shattering issues being discussed and nothing life and death about a uke that I can see. So what if I like Mahogany and you think it sounds like mud? I can live with that. What I can't live with is you attacking me as a person rather than any idea I might put up here. And frankly, like I said I just don't see that nastiness going on here. As soon as I have to worry about how everything I say is taken by every one of you all then it's time I move on.

All I'm saying is I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's easy to tell you're a decent caring person. But that's not enough to make it fun having you here. I want strong opinions too, cause that makes it really interesting and informative to come here and take a look around.

OK end rant. :shaka::cheers:

tbeltrans
07-08-2014, 04:39 PM
But that's what I'm saying. I really don't enjoy posting when I've got to second guess how everyone's going to take everything I say. I mean this is a very friendly place and IMO a not friendly person is going to stick out like a sore thumb. So if you happen to say something that pricks a nerve in me, I'm going to take that into account and not get all bent out of shape. My position is that I'm not trying to do harm and if someone wants to read that into the things I post here that's their problem and they can deal with it. Lifes to short. I want to kick back here and relax and just say what comes to mind. There are no world shattering issues being discussed and nothing life and death about a uke that I can see. So what if I like Mahogany and you think it sounds like mud? I can live with that. What I can't live with is you attacking me as a person rather than any idea I might put up here. And frankly, like I said I just don't see that nastiness going on here. As soon as I have to worry about how everything I say is taken by every one of you all then it's time I move on.

All I'm saying is I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's easy to tell you're a decent caring person. But that's not enough to make it fun having you here. I want strong opinions too, cause that makes it really interesting and informative to come here and take a look around.

OK end rant. :shaka::cheers:

I think you make very good points here. I have seen posts that clearly indicate (to me, maybe I am misinterpreting...) that there is some sensitivity regarding people with "higher end" ukuleles looking down on, or at least ignoring, those with lower and midrange ukuleles. I just don't want to stir that pot, and realized on rereading my previous post that it could be construed in that light.

Tony

Jim Hanks
07-08-2014, 04:53 PM
I only have one, but I haven't been at it very long. Since April, so I haven't even learned how to play the one that I have all that well yet. That said, I've really got the hots for an electric acoustic uke and an amp, so we will see how long it is before I end up with two. Probably not for a while yet though.
Hey, I have 6 ukes now and can't play any of them very well. :p And (SSP alert) I got an electric acoustic uke I'll sell ya for a good price. Fun little amp is only $25 more. C'mon you know you want it! :cool:

tbeltrans
07-08-2014, 05:07 PM
Well said, Tony, and that's the point I was trying to make in my post too - hoping my words don't touch anybody's sore spots either, as that is not my intention.

Thanks Janeray. :)

Tony

dhoenisch
07-08-2014, 05:32 PM
Sounds like you have a plan. You need the right tool for a specific task. I can see more banjos, mandolins, and guitars as the right tools for bluegrass music.

OK, just 1 uke, but how many banjos, mandolins, and guitars are you going to need. :)

Well, currently, two banjos, two mandolins and, uhh, six guitars. But they all sound different, I have them for different reasons, and, and.....

Okay, I DO truly understand why folks have multiple ukes, so I'm not knocking it at all. Just one is all I need for me for how I use/play the ukulele. Bluegrass has always been my passion, so I do invest more time and energy there than I do with the uke. The uke is my fun instrument and one that I truly do play just for pleasure.

Dan

Andy Chen
07-08-2014, 05:46 PM
Past a certain number of ukes for practical reasons (one low G, one high G, one concert, one tenor etc), it really is just about collecting, isn't it?

At one stage, I had seven carbon fiber guitars. Now I have just one CF guitar and three ukes: a concert (Clara), a beach-playing tenor (Fluke), an all-purpose last-forever tenor (Blackbird tenor) and a Kala 8-stringer. And I have managed to stave off UAS so far.

I also have a Mya-Moe tenor on the way and this is, I admit, purely one for collecting's sake, since I intend to have customised inlay with my daughters' names on the fretboard.

Steveperrywriter
07-08-2014, 06:08 PM
Yeah, I am going to cut back to five. Thing is, I have only three ...

I know the other two I need, though, so I'm good ...

fretie
07-08-2014, 08:01 PM
I admire you for going to the just ONE uke. It sounds like you have good reasons for this decision.

Though I am down to three ukes right now I'm giving myself a year to see if there's just ONE that's getting all or most of my attention and, if so, the other two will go.

Icelander53
07-08-2014, 08:46 PM
Yeah, I am going to cut back to five. Thing is, I have only three ...

I know the other two I need, though, so I'm good ...

That's the spirit. :rotfl::rotfl:

Kimosabe
07-08-2014, 10:09 PM
I find tbeltrans and dhoenisch's comments very sane , well-expressed and to the point. If I could do it all again I'd limit myself to two ukes: a very good quality high G tenor and very good quality low G tenor. It would also be nice for both to have quality pickups.

Unfortunately I bought and sold many baritones, concerts, lower quality tenors and a soprano or two. The money I lost in resale could have purchased a second quality tenor. Now I almost exclusively play my low G Kanilea tenor and everything else fails in sound quality. I wish I had another Kanilea tenor with a high G.

I bought baritones to suit my baritone voice but my fingers can do more with a tenor. I bought smaller ukes to get longer stretches but now find that I can do most necessary stretches on my tenor. The smaller ukes just don't have the fullness of tone I like.

Also, I think it may be hard for ukers to face the fact that there's a thrill in accumulating which is not really a musical thrill; it's a psychological need. It is also very true that spending time seeking out new instruments is not time spent practicing. It's time spent dreaming. To get better one must practice and practice and practice.

I practiced a couple of hours today. That's about as much as I could stand. I learned. I pushed myself. I got a little better.

There are other things in life for me, such as this forum. I do have a friend who practices piano eight hours a day. He is great.

Shorebird
07-09-2014, 01:30 AM
Now that I am trying the UKE I am going to sell my Kel Kroydon KK-4 Banjo and my Recording King K-25. I am trying not to let the acquisition frenzy get to me with the ukulele. I already have two and have my eye on a third. Might be a good idea to learn how to play first. I will say it is easier than the banjo and the smaller size allows me to travel the fretboard better than the banjo.

tbeltrans
07-09-2014, 01:41 AM
I find tbeltrans and dhoenisch's comments very sane , well-expressed and to the point. If I could do it all again I'd limit myself to two ukes: a very good quality high G tenor and very good quality low G tenor. It would also be nice for both to have quality pickups.

Unfortunately I bought and sold many baritones, concerts, lower quality tenors and a soprano or two. The money I lost in resale could have purchased a second quality tenor. Now I almost exclusively play my low G Kanilea tenor and everything else fails in sound quality. I wish I had another Kanilea tenor with a high G.

I bought baritones to suit my baritone voice but my fingers can do more with a tenor. I bought smaller ukes to get longer stretches but now find that I can do most necessary stretches on my tenor. The smaller ukes just don't have the fullness of tone I like.

Also, I think it may be hard for ukers to face the fact that there's a thrill in accumulating which is not really a musical thrill; it's a psychological need. It is also very true that spending time seeking out new instruments is not time spent practicing. It's time spent dreaming. To get better one must practice and practice and practice.

I practiced a couple of hours today. That's about as much as I could stand. I learned. I pushed myself. I got a little better.

There are other things in life for me, such as this forum. I do have a friend who practices piano eight hours a day. He is great.

Kimosabe -

What you say here EXACTLY reflects my experience over the years with the guitar, my point being that I think this may be at least somewhat a factor of human nature. In the guitar forums, I recall some saying they had experienced this with golf/golf clubs and other areas in which they participated. So once we realize this, as you obviously do in your post, we find ways to mitigate it and move on.

I traded a very nice Collings guitar for my first ukulele - straight up, no cash exchanged. I had not played that instrument in many years, since getting the McPherson acoustic that I do play. The ukulele is quite an expensive Ko'olau. The base price on this model is $3,200 according to the web site, so I believe that it is the quality of the wood and a few other upcharges such as the factory installed LR Baggs active pickup system that drove the price quite a bit higher. If I had to use money to purchase the ukulele, I am sure I would not own it today. My second ukulele is a Kamaka Ohta-San strung low G from the factory, and that was a partial trade that greatly reduced the cost. I had a Schatten passive pickup installed in it, so both my ukuleles have pickups installed now. Again, had I paid the full price for this ukulele, I am sure I would not own it today. So, for me, this has been a very fortunate series of events and I really have no need to look further.

The partial trade was for a Riptide tenor that I traded some effects pedals straight across (no cash) for at another store. The Riptide was fine, but there was a huge difference between it and my Ko'olau and I knew that would eventually lead to still more trading. As you say, much of the time these trades end up losing money for the individual and that effectively raises the price on each subsequent acquisition. With that consideration in mind, I decided to do it once and do it "right" to minimize the losses. I probably would not have considered my situation in this light, had it not been for having already gone through this with guitars. As you point out, there is a certain thrill in the process of accumulating instruments. I see here that people call it "UAS" and joke about it in exactly the same manner as people engaged in other pursuits do about their acquisitions.

David Sudnow once said that we all think we are unique, and that is one thing that we all have in common. UAS, GAS, and whatever else a particular interest subculture calls it, is common among us humans. It is nothing to be ashamed of, and in fact, can be a full time hobby in itself. But it us individually who must decide where to spend our time and money. Being recently retired, I really can no longer afford expensive hobbies. Fortunately, music can be quite inexpensive once the instrument is acquired, yet bring a lot of joy for the rest of our lives.

Tony

bborzell
07-09-2014, 03:28 AM
All this stuff has moved me to thinking about thinning out my T shirts. Nothing in my life is more frustrating and time consuming than standing in the closet and picking through a rack of T shirts commemorating everything from National Championship motorcycles races to the evolution of musical instruments starting with the ancient and simplistic banjo and progressing to everything else (including the kazoo).

I even have a Mono case T shirt with a rubberized image of some dude walking with a Mono case on his back. Just the thing for encouraging "guy walking with a Mono case on his back" sweat images on very hot days.

Now that I think about it, the spice rack is beginning to look pretty cluttered. Oh, and then that shelf full of towels. How many towels can a guy use at one time?

Rllink
07-09-2014, 03:47 AM
Kimosabe -



David Sudnow once said that we all think we are unique, and that is one thing that we all have in common. UAS, GAS, and whatever else a particular interest subculture calls it, is common among us humans. It is nothing to be ashamed of, and in fact, can be a full time hobby in itself. But it us individually who must decide where to spend our time and money. Being recently retired, I really can no longer afford expensive hobbies. Fortunately, music can be quite inexpensive once the instrument is acquired, yet bring a lot of joy for the rest of our lives.

Tony
I think that it is human nature, and I have had similar experiences with everything from fishing rods to hand tools, but I'm aware of it and I'm trying very hard to not do that with ukuleles. I"m making a conscious effort to keep it simple and uncluttered.

Captain America
07-09-2014, 03:47 AM
I think Aristotle might say that good ukuleles should be in the hands of good players, of course not excluding the prospect of good ukuleles being in the hands of mediocre players. This line of thinking is why some Stradivarius owners loan their instruments to talented violinists.

Me, I've got more uke than I can handle. Me, I also wear a cheap watch, so I don't bang up an expensive one against the garage door. I like lower cost ukes for much the same reason: if I leave it outside overnight, I'm not going to find myself in a weep-n-moan situation.

Rllink
07-09-2014, 03:52 AM
All this stuff has moved me to thinking about thinning out my T shirts. Nothing in my life is more frustrating and time consuming than standing in the closet and picking through a rack of T shirts commemorating everything from National Championship motorcycles races to the evolution of musical instruments starting with the ancient and simplistic banjo and progressing to everything else (including the kazoo).

I even have a Mono case T shirt with a rubberized image of some dude walking with a Mono case on his back. Just the thing for encouraging "guy walking with a Mono case on his back" sweat images on very hot days.

Now that I think about it, the spice rack is beginning to look pretty cluttered. Oh, and then that shelf full of towels. How many towels can a guy use at one time?
Probably ten years ago I was sitting by myself at the state fair watching people go by, while my wife and kids were doing something. I remember reading and looking at the t shirts and thinking, "do they think that is clever, do they really think that is cute, do they really think that I care if they went to that, do they really own a harley davidsons or do they just have the shirt." Then I got to wondering about what kind of person wore those shirts. When I got home and started looking at my t shirts, I got to wondering if mine were as stupid as a lot of the ones that I had seen at the fair. I kind of got a complex and quit wearing any t shirt with a message. Anyway, I got to the point where I refuse to be defined by my shirt.

SteveZ
07-09-2014, 04:40 AM
Probably ten years ago I was sitting by myself at the state fair watching people go by, while my wife and kids were doing something. I remember reading and looking at the t shirts and thinking, "do they think that is clever, do they really think that is cute, do they really think that I care if they went to that, do they really own a harley davidsons or do they just have the shirt." Then I got to wondering about what kind of person wore those shirts. When I got home and started looking at my t shirts, I got to wondering if mine were as stupid as a lot of the ones that I had seen at the fair. I kind of got a complex and quit wearing any t shirt with a message. Anyway, I got to the point where I refuse to be defined by my shirt.

T-shirts, ukukeles, mandolins, motorcycles, guitars, banjos, baseball caps, etc. it's all the same to me. I get/wear/play what pleases me and really don't care if anyone else "likes it - reads it - does the same - abhors it." T-shirts and most hats are souveniers of good times past and bring a smile to me, and what others think is their headache. I tend to go through a lot of instruments - buying, selling, trading - and if someone is bothered by what I wear or play or how I play it, there's a lot of good mental health counselors out there.

The OP said he's more into bluegrass. It's not my favorite genre, but itdoes not matter. The OP (and several of my friends) tend to concentrate with it and certain instruments they find work best. Some certain makes/models of instruments work better than others even within a genre, so having mutiple is "normal" to some folk. Nothing wrong with that. As an example, I've down to three mandolins - one is great with rock, one is true 'grass and country, and the other is a crossover spare should either of the other two go down for any reason.

Going down to one "good" instrument for a not-often-used instrument category makes a lot of practical sense. That's why I only have one banjo (but it's a rock-solid one), one tenor guitar (plays super) and one dreadnaught guitar (been with me for 35 years); but have multiple ukuleles and mandolins. Would be interested in the OP's choices for mandolins and such.

Rllink
07-09-2014, 05:47 AM
T-shirts, ukukeles, mandolins, motorcycles, guitars, banjos, baseball caps, etc. it's all the same to me. I get/wear/play what pleases me and really don't care if anyone else "likes it - reads it - does the same - abhors it." T-shirts and most hats are souveniers of good times past and bring a smile to me, and what others think is their headache. I tend to go through a lot of instruments - buying, selling, trading - and if someone is bothered by what I wear or play or how I play it, there's a lot of good mental health counselors out there.

The OP said he's more into bluegrass. It's not my favorite genre, but itdoes not matter. The OP (and several of my friends) tend to concentrate with it and certain instruments they find work best. Some certain makes/models of instruments work better than others even within a genre, so having mutiple is "normal" to some folk. Nothing wrong with that. As an example, I've down to three mandolins - one is great with rock, one is true 'grass and country, and the other is a crossover spare should either of the other two go down for any reason.

Going down to one "good" instrument for a not-often-used instrument category makes a lot of practical sense. That's why I only have one banjo (but it's a rock-solid one), one tenor guitar (plays super) and one dreadnaught guitar (been with me for 35 years); but have multiple ukuleles and mandolins. Would be interested in the OP's choices for mandolins and such.I'm not "bothered" by what other people wear. But at the same time, I am assuming that they are not averse to me reading it and forming some sort of opinion of the shirt, or of them, from it. Whether they care what that opinion is or not, does not change mine.

As far as people accumulating, buying, selling, or collecting instruments, I think that is fine. Just stating that having done that in the past, I'm trying to keep that from happening with ukuleles. It has nothing to do with what other people are doing. I do not expect anyone to be like me. I don't expect anyone to do anything just because I do it. I just have a lot of stuff, and at my age I'm trying to lighten the load, not add to it. But if someone else wants to have so many ukes that they need an addition on the house to keep them all in, have at it.

SteveZ
07-09-2014, 05:58 AM
....As far as people accumulating, buying, selling, or collecting instruments, I think that is fine. Just stating that having done that in the past, I'm trying to keep that from happening with ukuleles. It has nothing to do with what other people are doing. I do not expect anyone to be like me. I don't expect anyone to do anything just because I do it. I just have a lot of stuff, and at my age I'm trying to lighten the load, not add to it. But if someone else wants to have so many ukes that they need an addition on the house to keep them all in, have at it.

I've been lucky. Getting too loaded with stuff has been solved by having grandkids who willingly liberate me of any excess stock regardless of category.

ksiegel
07-09-2014, 06:22 AM
I admire those of you who have decided to part with your ukes, and with your well-thought-out reasons.

With a couple exceptions, all of the instruments I've got are special. My first uke was a banjo uke, purchased as a Wall Hanger. It turns out it is playable, so I play it. My father-in-law gave me his old Harmony soprano uke almost 3 years ago. Not the easiest to play, but I will never get rid of it.

I got my Kala from MusicGuyMic. First Tenor, incredible sound. Then I got a Cordoba TM-20. Great player. The Fluke, Firefly, two Epiphone Les Pauls, and the Republic followed, and then I won a Vita Uke. I bonded instantly with the KoAloha Sceptre when I played it at Ukulele Source. I got the Waverly Street low-G soprano and the Rosewood Vita from other forum members, then I got an Outdoor Uke. I recently sold one of the Les Paul ukes to another forum member.

Last year, I took delivery of my Bradford Donaldson concert uke, which I love more than I can say. I just put Southcoast strings on it, and was blown away by the sound. I received a Bugs Gear plastic Uke about 3 months ago, and have been working it hard - almost ready for an in-depth review.

So I have 15 ukuleles,and I play them all - some more than others, but I do play them. They all sound different, and some things just sound better on certain ukes.

Have i found "The One"?

Yeah, I have.

Three or four times.

Am I "thinning the herd"?

Nope.

There are still a few ukes that I have played, and want, including a Rick Turner and a John S. Kinnard.

And, although I have yet to play any, I want something from Chuck Moore, Ken Timms, and Pete Howlett uke..

Rllink
07-09-2014, 06:23 AM
I've been lucky. Getting too loaded with stuff has been solved by having grandkids who willingly liberate me of any excess stock regardless of category.No grandkids yet, but there is hope. I've got just the opposite problem, my grown kids have a lot of their stuff at my place, including a storage shed full of stuff that I took out of their bedrooms when they moved away years ago. In fact, there are two guitars here that belong to my kids, and I was going to learn to play one of those, until I discovered the ukulele in the process.

Kimosabe
07-09-2014, 06:27 AM
I think that one outcome of this discussion should be that newcomers to the uke world should hopefully be wiser early on.

Really try to determine what size uke you wish to play. Decide how good you want to become and whether you're willing to put in the practice to get there. You really need to practice several hours a day consistently and you must think in terms of years. I've become a good picker after eight years of serious practice. I still have a long way to go. My goals are high. Do I enjoy it? Immensely! Start at fifteen and by twenty-five you'll be very, very good and have fifty or so more years to get even better.

You must always be learning something new and you must always review what you've already learned. What you learn comes in increments. Be satisfied if you only learn a few bars of a song well in one day but make sure you learn something new. I'm speaking of picking in particular but it could also be chord patterns, shapes, a new song, an ability to read music better, knowledge of double stops, scales, modes, etc..

Get some good books. Learn to read standard notation early on. Get a foundation in music theory. It's not that hard. John Coltrane said that the more you know the more you can blow. Steven Strauss, whom we at the Berkeley Ukulele Club had the good fortune to have as a teacher and mentor, advised that one should try to see how softly one can play, how quietly. He also said that when one plays one should be able to hear all other instruments playing. The Band placed their instruments around in a close circle and played together when they were creating Big Pink. They needed to hear each other well.

Lyle Ritz says that once one has practiced one also needs to just have fun and improvise. I think that's also great advice. After I practice several hours I give myself the reward of just letting myself go and seeing what happens. Usually my fingers are really warmed up and I can do more. I write music as well as just practice.

Eric Clapton talks about the stages one goes through learning to play the blues. One learns to play patterns and riffs and then one learns to play what one hears in one's head. Eventually things begin to come out unconsciously. Inspiration is like a divine breath. The muse speaks through us without our even choosing what is to be said. We sit back and listen and say thanks. The force is with us.

Also, one should learn to play music in different genres. Playing Renaissance music has given me a deeper understanding of folk picking, of song structures and variations. Learning the subtleties of blues has helped me with jazz. Play classical music as well as rock. Duke Ellington said something to the effect that there are two kinds of music: good and bad.

So, succinctly: Newcomers, go to a uke shop and sit there and play all different size ukes or borrow some from friends. Figure out what size really suits you. Get a half way decent inexpensive uke, like a Kala, an Ohana, a Mainland, a Lanikai, an Oscar Schmidt, a Makala, etc. and play the hell out of it for a year or two. Do you still like playing? Have you learned? Okay, you love it. Now spend the money and get a really, really good uke and keep it up the rest of your life. Carefully choose the great uke. Make sure you have time to really try it out before buying. You'll have avoided the pitfalls of UAS (Ukulele Acquirement Syndrome). You will, however, need a high and low G uke. There really are good reasons to have both. Find the music that suits either.

Rllink
07-09-2014, 06:36 AM
I think you make very good points here. I have seen posts that clearly indicate (to me, maybe I am misinterpreting...) that there is some sensitivity regarding people with "higher end" ukuleles looking down on, or at least ignoring, those with lower and midrange ukuleles. I just don't want to stir that pot, and realized on rereading my previous post that it could be construed in that light.

TonyI've not been offended by anything you have posted. I think that everyone here is very nice. A lot of people here have very expensive instruments and are proud of them. I can understand that, and it does not make me feel bad that they do.

Rllink
07-09-2014, 06:48 AM
I think that one outcome of this discussion should be that newcomers to the uke world should hopefully be wiser early on.

Really try to determine what size uke you wish to play. Decide how good you want to become and whether you're willing to put in the practice to get there. You really need to practice several hours a day consistently and you must think in terms of years. I've become a good picker after eight years of serious practice. I still have a long way to go. My goals are high. Do I enjoy it? Immensely! Start at fifteen and by twenty-five you'll be very, very good and have fifty or so more years to get even better.

You must always be learning something new and you must always review what you've already learned. What you learn comes in increments. Be satisfied if you only learn a few bars of a song well in one day but make sure you learn something new. I'm speaking of picking in particular but it could also be chord patterns, shapes, a new song, an ability to read music better, knowledge of double stops, scales, modes, etc..

Get some good books. Learn to read standard notation early on. Get a foundation in music theory. It's not that hard. John Coltrane said that the more you know the more you can blow.

Lyle Ritz says that once one has practiced one also needs to just have fun and improvise. I think that's also great advice. After I practice several hours I give myself the reward of just letting myself go and seeing what happens. Usually my fingers are really warmed up and I can do more. I write music as well as just practice.

Eric Clapton talks about the stages one goes through learning to play the blues. One learns to play patterns and riffs and then one learns to play what one hears in one's head. Eventually things begin to come out unconsciously. Inspiration is like a divine breath. The muse speaks through us without our even choosing what is to be said. We sit back and listen and say thanks. The force is with us.

Also, one should learn to play music in different genres. Playing Renaissance music has given me a deeper understanding of folk picking, of song structures and variations. Learning the subtleties of blues has helped me with jazz. Play classical music as well as rock. Duke Ellington said something to the effect that there are two kinds of music: good and bad.

So, succinctly: Newcomers, go to a uke shop and sit there and play all different size ukes or borrow some from friends. Figure out what size really suits you. Get a half way decent inexpensive uke and play the hell out of it for a year or two. Do you still like playing? Have you learned? Okay, you love it. Now spend the money and get a really, really good uke and keep it up the rest of your life. You'll have avoided the pitfalls of UAS (Ukulele Acquirement Syndrome). You will, however, need a high and low G uke. There really are good reasons to have both. Find the music that suits either.I think you that what you say in this post is very good and speaks to setting goals and trying to reach them. But I think it is also important for people to realize that some people do not set such high goals, and to respect that as well. I think that sometimes people are made to feel like they are not "worthy" if they are not focused enough, if they don't practice as much, or if their equipment is not what some think is serious enough. Playing an instrument can still be a lifetime endeavor and bring someone as much pleasure, without sacrifice and hours of practice. Progress just comes slower, and greatness may never be achieved, but for some, greatness is not the goal. I think both sides need to recognize that and respect each other for what they are doing.

marcocolo
07-09-2014, 07:25 AM
I think Kimosabe's "plan" is Ok for a young person but I'm 60 and I don't feel like waiting till I'm really good to upgrade or experiment. Life's too short.
I've gotten great advice from all here and I think I've gotten some great ukes. I'll play w/ them all and I may sell a few or I may not. GAS (gear acquire syndrom) can be fun and a hobby in itself. To me, it's all a learning experience. I'm having a blast thus far thanks to this group!

tbeltrans
07-09-2014, 07:59 AM
I've not been offended by anything you have posted. I think that everyone here is very nice. A lot of people here have very expensive instruments and are proud of them. I can understand that, and it does not make me feel bad that they do.

Thanks Rllink. From what I have seen here, most everyone is very nice and I have gotten a lot of really good and helpful/practical information from these forums.

Tony

Icelander53
07-09-2014, 08:34 AM
I think Kimosabe's "plan" is Ok for a young person but I'm 60 and I don't feel like waiting till I'm really good to upgrade or experiment. Life's too short.
I've gotten great advice from all here and I think I've gotten some great ukes. I'll play w/ them all and I may sell a few or I may not. GAS (gear acquire syndrom) can be fun and a hobby in itself. To me, it's all a learning experience. I'm having a blast thus far thanks to this group!

I share your attitude here. I'm over 60 and just started playing a few months ago. I'm doing very "ok" but have no great illusions of mastery here. I can get blissed out just slowly practicing chords on a great sounding uke so I'm going to get that uke if I can afford it and I'm getting it now. Tomorrow I may find I have three months to live and I'd be sorry I didn't get that Pono or whatever I was lusting after.

BTW that PONO is on it's way from HMS. :cool: It may be overkill with my skill level but thats my decision/problem. I love these instruments and I'm going to have a couple of nice ones that play well if I can. Right now I have a Gretsch that plays like butter and this PONO with the radiused fretboard should be similar and also has the fat neck I seem to do well on. I have several others that sound very nice indeed but I really don't play them much because I find them more difficult and so less fun. In the end due to my age and financial situation I'd rather give them to someone who's lusting for a solid wood uke but can't go there financially rather than sell them. At least that's how I feel now.

I have this fantasy that if I was on my last legs I'd make up some fun little contests for the great folk here and award them out as prizes. And I just may end up doing that one day cause I don't hang with many uke players. It would be my way of saying thanks for being here guys and sharing our love for this great little instrument and music in general. It's made my retirement so much more worthwhile.

Kimosabe
07-09-2014, 09:11 AM
Kimosabe happens to be 63 and started playing eight years ago. Too bad he didn't start earlier. Ukes were kiddy toys to him. Wish he had been wiser or shown the path to true enlightenment when he was sixteen. John Lennon, you bloody git, why didn't you emphasize you started on uke? Jimi you did too; didn't you? Kimo was watching Arthur Godfrey but he must have missed the baritone. He must have been paying too much attention to Andy Devine and froggy.

" I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now."

Icelander53
07-09-2014, 09:54 AM
Eight years? I'm envious. I'll bet you're pretty decent. I'll be looking at 8 months in Sept.

NewKid
07-09-2014, 11:34 AM
Most of the people in my weekly uke jam enjoy playing and socializing and its not entirely about the music. Whenever we try to introduce even the most basic music theory its a guaranteed buzz kill. Most of them play Lanakai and Kala ukes and they only have one instrument. I know this changes over time after a group plays together for a while. But I have a feeling that one ukulele may be the norm for more people than we think on this uke-obsessed forum.

janeray1940
07-09-2014, 11:46 AM
But I have a feeling that one ukulele may be the norm for more people than we think on this uke-obsessed forum.

Interesting point - and at the risk of derailing the OP's thread, I have to say I think you're on to something.

I play in an advanced instrumental ensemble where everyone is pretty serious about music (but some still are more into the social aspects than the theory aspects!). Recently another member was considering a new uke purchase, and she asked me how many ukes I had. When I replied "Three," her response indicated that she thought that was *a lot*! She's had just one very basic laminate since she started playing almost 5 years ago.

And now that I think about it - the folks in the aforementioned ensemble who spend time on UU are in general the ones with multiple ukes - most with far more than my measly and well-loved three.

tbeltrans
07-09-2014, 11:51 AM
Interesting point - and at the risk of derailing the OP's thread, I have to say I think you're on to something.

I play in an advanced instrumental ensemble where everyone is pretty serious about music (but some still are more into the social aspects than the theory aspects!). Recently another member was considering a new uke purchase, and she asked me how many ukes I had. When I replied "Three," her response indicated that she thought that was *a lot*! She's had just one very basic laminate since she started playing almost 5 years ago.

And now that I think about it - the folks in the aforementioned ensemble who spend time on UU are in general the ones with multiple ukes - most with far more than my measly and well-loved three.

Eventually in threads such as this, somebody remembers that those in a given forum represent a very small niche of the overall population involved in the pursuit that is the focus of that particular forum. In this case, it was NewKid, with Janeray's comments elaborating. These observations are spot on, as "they" say. I have seen similar reminders in various guitar-obsessed forums too.

Thanks for the reminder.

Tony

Steveperrywriter
07-09-2014, 12:11 PM
Thing is, that pearls-before-swine metaphor is true. This speaks to ignorance, and is not insulting, because we are all ignorant about many things. Ignorance is easy to fix; stupidity is, alas, incurable ...

As a father and grandfather, I can't tell you how many times I had knowledge that I wanted to give to my children and grandkids, but because each generation has to re-invent the wheel for themselves, they weren't able to hear it.

You can't understand, Pop, things are different now.

Which means they are different now, and it isn't real to them unless they experience it. Been there. Am still there ...

So I suspect that even though a lot of folks have learned some wondrous lessons about buying and selling ukuleles and amassing a collection (or deciding against that), probably most newbies are going to do it their way until it is real for them. I got some good advice on entry-level ukes, and made my decision using that, but I had to buy and sell a few before it became clear to me what I sought, insofar as size and shape and sound and looks. My tin ear has gotten a little better; my fumbling fingers have accomplished a few patterns. I've experienced good instruments, and I have three excellent ones, (Woodley White, Alan Carruth, Michael Zuch) but there are still a couple that will address some things I have learned to like.

Two more names to fill out the collection: Beau Hannam and Chuck Moore. Then I can quit and live happily ever after.

Which is not to say you shouldn't offer advice; only that getting attached to folks taking it is, as often than not, a bad idea ...

Nickie
07-09-2014, 12:52 PM
This thread has become very interesting...it started out that way. Almost all of my friends who arent' on UU only have one uke...they aren't obsessed at all. This proves that UU reading and posting causes UAS.
I met one man who had a room full of Ponos, and bought his wife a Kamaka. I asked him a year ago what he was going to do with all of them, he loves showing them off....then a few weeks ago, I find out he's become a dealer. He's well retired so he can afford to lose money, I think he did it for fun.
Anyway, I'm down to 4 ukes now....I doubt if I'll have more than 5, ever. I have one soprano that I don't play much because I just don't like the sound. I'm waiting to find what I want and trade it, or give it to a child who wants to learn.
I think all my friends who have one uke are happy with that, because they don't eat it up like I do. Tammy, my fiancee, has one, and has no plans to aqcuire any more. I sold her banjo today cause she didn't play it, a friend needed one for her grandson's BD, and I got more for it than TAmmy expected. So she didn't mind having it leave. She has a wonderful attitude about musical instruments. I liberated her cello, and she was happy about that too, cause it never got played.
One friend, who began playing last year, bought a cheap soprano and played it exclusivley for quite a while, and recently bought a concert, and is tickled taht she did. That seems pretty typical. I think it's healthy to let things go, I've given away 6 ukes so far...and sold 3. And so on it goes.....
Oh BTW, Ice, I've never seen you post anything offensive....there is NO reason for any of us to get upset with another....this is supossed to be fun! If it ceases to be fun for me, I'll leave and join a cat lover's forum (we have 6, how many do we need?)

Andy Chen
07-09-2014, 02:57 PM
Perhaps the collecting of ukes should be considered as a separate hobby from the passion to play them.

The two passions may overlap, and it doesn't necessarily make someone love playing the ukulele more or less if he or she should also love collecting the instrument.

Kimosabe
07-09-2014, 03:30 PM
Well said, simple and clear. I'll drink to that. I'm starting a beer bottle collection this afternoon.

Icelander53
07-09-2014, 04:04 PM
Perhaps the collecting of ukes should be considered as a separate hobby from the passion to play them.

The two passions may overlap, and it doesn't necessarily make someone love playing the ukulele more or less if he or she should also love collecting the instrument.

I agree. Maybe you've put in the last word here on this and we can move on and collect and play.

Ukejenny
07-10-2014, 04:09 AM
People collect art. People collect jewelry. People collect tools. People collect guns. Why not collect ukuleles? Or not collect them - it's all good. I had a friend who collected accordions... and hid some of them from his wife. Any idea how difficult it would be to hide multiple accordions? Every week, he'd bring a new one out to our rehearsal. He loved it. Pure joy.

That's what it is about for me, the joy. If you love having several, if you love having one, whatever evokes the good feelings. We all come at this thing from different directions, backgrounds and mindsets. But, we all have joy for the instrument. I say, amen to that.

bnolsen
07-10-2014, 04:21 AM
One uke is probably fine for most casual players. I could even get away with just one, but having 3 is most practical. But I do like to be able to sometimes grab one at work (modded schoenhut) and then have one laying around wherever at home (lanikai) and then pull out the good one (martin) when I need to go out. Hmm...ideally I should probably donate that lanikai to a needy soul and put the fluke out as the beater.

Rllink
07-14-2014, 04:22 AM
I've been just a one ukulele man since I started. That is all I need, right? Well, I was at a ukulele festival and all weekend I couldn't keep my hands off a used bamboo uke that caught my eye and that a very nice lady had for sale there. I had no intention of buying another uke, but on the last day, just before I was going to take off for home, the lady talked me into just taking it home on loan for a month, or two, or three, or whatever. She said to take it, play it, and get it back to her some time. Now does that count in the ukulele count, or am I still a one ukulele man? I am looking at two ukes in the corner as we speak.

Kimosabe
07-14-2014, 06:49 AM
It's a slippery slope..................................