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View Full Version : Auction site uke sale, bad, bad experience!



DazW
07-31-2014, 12:17 PM
Sorry if this thread is inappropriate and breaks any UU rules, please remove it if so.
Just wanted to alert people who occasionally sell ukes on the usual auction site in the UK, of a buyer with the user name 'sidneypopo'.
This "person" bought my Ohana SK-21M sopranino on 15th July, they received it on 19th July and left me really great positive feedback saying 'super cute, great price, great seller etc'.
Then, 2 weeks later at around midnight last night I received a message saying they had opened a claim stating they hadn't received the uke.
Unfortunately for me, I have the proof of postage receipt but it was only sent 1st class, not a recorded tracked service.
Now you would usually think that them leaving positive feedback for the uke, would be proof enough that they received it, but we all know what the auction sites claim policy is like and it usually favours the buyer, no matter how dodgy their claim is.
Anyway, the case is pending and the funds are on hold in pp, so basically it looks like I've lost the Ohana and the money I got for it.
Just wanted to share my frustration and warn people to always send using a tracked service, sorry for the rant.

hoosierhiver
07-31-2014, 12:28 PM
You've got their name and address, and proof of delivery. Tell them you'll go to the police.
What they are doing is fraud and since it involved the postal system it's probably an even more serious offense.

DazW
07-31-2014, 12:33 PM
You've got their name and address, and proof of delivery. Tell them you'll go to the police.
What they are doing is fraud and since it involved the postal system it's probably an even more serious offense.

As far as I'm aware, if you don't have an actual tracking number that proves they received it, you don't have a leg to stand on with the auction site, even if they have left feedback for you. It baffles me why they waited 2 weeks to do this to me, all I can think is they are desperate for money, or maybe someone has just informed them that they can scam sellers if they don't sign for a parcel and unfortunately for me I'm the target.
I can see from their feedback that he also bought another Ohana concert uke around the same time, so this person is a uke player, which p###es me off even more

anthonyg
07-31-2014, 01:35 PM
Have you spoken directly to the buyer? I don't know what's going on but maybe he bought two instruments on the auction site. The other instrument didn't turn up but he accidentally started the dispute against you. I don't know really. Try direct communication and see what happens.

Anthony

DazW
07-31-2014, 02:18 PM
Have you spoken directly to the buyer? I don't know what's going on but maybe he bought two instruments on the auction site. The other instrument didn't turn up but he accidentally started the dispute against you. I don't know really. Try direct communication and see what happens.

Anthony

Hi, yes we've communicated briefly through the resolution centre. He has left feedback for the other Ohana so must have received that one too. He bought my uke on 15th, it was posted on 17th and he left feedback on 19th. I've not heard from him since yesterday, I have sent numerous messages through the resolution centre but no reply. If he doesn't reply, the next step is after 10 days he can escalate it to a claim and it's then left for the auction site to decide the outcome. As they have already took the money back from my pp account I fear the worst

bonesigh
07-31-2014, 05:02 PM
Just my sly mind at work but perhaps someone else is using their name and computer while they are away. It's possible.

Patrick Madsen
07-31-2014, 07:24 PM
This has taught me to always get a signature for any ukes I sell and send. Sorry bout you being ripped off. I hate people like that, slime of the Earth.

chefuke
07-31-2014, 07:42 PM
I am feeling for you - nothing worse than getting scammed like that - How far away fro you does he life? Any mates in the area? You could always go and pay a visit getting at least the sopranino back.

tangimango
07-31-2014, 08:44 PM
did you insure it?

Teek
07-31-2014, 08:50 PM
So sorry!

You have proof that you bought postage and shipped a parcel to that address if you have a receipt from a postal office where it was handed over the counter. In the US the receipt shows weight date cost and destination. If through eBay it only proves that you bought the postage. The crummy bit is if something really doesn't show up. even though it isn't your doing, you get the penalty, so they force you to buy insurance. In the old days we made the buyer pay for the insurance instead of taking it out of our costs, which is the FAIR way. I blew my stack years back when after a bunch of changes by eBay I not only couldn't leave negative feedback, I couldn't charge for shipping materials, handling, or insurance, and if I put it in the shipping an eBay popup would tell me my shipping was "too high" for this type of item and not let me list it! So much for fair market value!. It's insane! eBay lost a lot of sellers to "The River" (Amazon) at the time.

However there is the feedback which should be incriminating on the buyer.

Maybe send an "Ask seller a question" from the sale page (click on the seller name in the feedback) of the other uke he bought to that seller and describe what happened to you and ask him to let you know if it happens to him too. Then you have a better case.

Yep I almost always insure even if the buyer doesn't pay for it unless I am okay risking the item, my time, listing fees and postage plus shipping mailer etc. as an out of pocket loss because there are too many scummy people in the world.

Tootler
07-31-2014, 08:53 PM
If the resolution centre goes against you, consider taking it to the small claims court. Your proof of posting plus the buyers feedback might just constitute enough evidence. Contact the seller of the other uke. If he had a similar experience it all helps to build a case for both of you.

At the very least it's worth looking into. My daughter used the small claims court when her landlord refused to return her bond when she moved flats. The procedure was pretty straightforward, no need for lawers, though it may just be worth consulting a solicitor. She got her money back.

The small claims court is for cases like yours.

Another thought. Go to your local citizens advise bureau first - if they haven't been closed by government cuts, that is.

Kyle23
07-31-2014, 10:25 PM
What really baffles me is that they left the feedback and seemed to be genuine then changed their mind along the way and decided to do this. Really a shame. I had this happen to me on ebay. I didn't send with a tracking number and they got their money back. It wasn't for much, so I just let it go. Such a terrible feeling.

DazW
08-01-2014, 12:14 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. My pp account is now minus the amount they paid inc postage, so I can't sell or buy anything else. I'm going to add funds to clear this and just wait for the auction site to review it in 10 days. If I win great, f not I've learnt a valuable lesson! The post office told me that standard 1st class parcels can't be tracked, they have given me a claim form for a 'lost parcel' which I will send off and see what happens. It does seem odd that the buyer has now fell silent, guilty conscience hopefully. Thanks everyone, I'll update if any progress.

AndrewKuker
08-01-2014, 03:08 AM
The positive comments can be tracked to IP address and location. They will know the computer that gave a positive review. If it is where the uke was sent then it is on them. But that's all you got with 1st worst class mail.

We deal with attempted fraud regularly and for years. Stolen identity and credit can be used at any store and filters almost always block them but every so often a loophole is made.

Let me be clear, No one can access anyones payment info from our site. We can't even ever see that. I'm talking about people that attempt to buy ukes with stolen credit cards. At times I have pondered the whole thing, thinking, how do humans live this way. I've realized mostly these people don't even think they're bad for lying and hurting innocent people. They think if they can outsmart you (getting away with it) then they earned it. To many life is personal survival and the only wrong is being poor or getting caught. We even sometimes root for such a character on a movie. Wow, what a good thief. This guy can outsmart the system, cool. Right and wrong is less clear. For those with no soul… anyway they can beat the system is rightly earned by their cleverness. Or the other's own stupidity deserved it. There are people that will most likely never look in the mirror so don't even bother trying.

Just accept the world as it is and realize if you are gonna sell online, you may need to learn more about fraud protection. Frog protection?
So good luck on this one Daz. At the worst you still helped some here realize the wild west of online sales.

hoosierhiver
08-01-2014, 03:18 AM
If the resolution centre goes against you, consider taking it to the small claims court. Your proof of posting plus the buyers feedback might just constitute enough evidence. Contact the seller of the other uke. If he had a similar experience it all helps to build a case for both of you.

At the very least it's worth looking into. My daughter used the small claims court when her landlord refused to return her bond when she moved flats. The procedure was pretty straightforward, no need for lawers, though it may just be worth consulting a solicitor. She got her money back.

The small claims court is for cases like yours.

Another thought. Go to your local citizens advise bureau first - if they haven't been closed by government cuts, that is.

I was wondering if the UK used a similar system to what we have. I'm a big fan of small claims court as UPS will tell you.

mr79
08-01-2014, 03:33 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. My pp account is now minus the amount they paid inc postage, so I can't sell or buy anything else. I'm going to add funds to clear this and just wait for the auction site to review it in 10 days. If I win great, f not I've learnt a valuable lesson! The post office told me that standard 1st class parcels can't be tracked, they have given me a claim form for a 'lost parcel' which I will send off and see what happens. It does seem odd that the buyer has now fell silent, guilty conscience hopefully. Thanks everyone, I'll update if any progress.

I had almost the exact same experience a few months ago. I sold a Gretsch guitalele on ebay, buyer left positive feedback, we even had an email exchange about best strings, tunings etc. A few weeks later a notice from Paypal saying the buyer had issued a chargeback as he claimed he had never bought the item in the first place, and they had taken the money from my account in the meantime while the investigation was 'pending'. Looking on his feedback I saw he had resold the Gretsch a few days before issuing the chargeback.

Get proactive on it - phone paypal, make it clear you class it as a fraud, a theft. Tell them you are going to the police, they'll suddenly be very helpful! Visit the Action Fraud website and ring them too, the money has been taken from your account so you are out of pocket. You have the guys name and address, and an online trail. keep ringing paypal, Action Fraud and the police if necessary - teach the swine a lesson!

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Dan Uke
08-01-2014, 04:21 AM
One thing which is tough to prove is did the recipient get the package. I've had many packages dropped off at the front door. When I used to live in an apt complex, I used to see packages left at the door all the time and I'm sure some would get stolen by a neighbor or someone visiting the neighbors. I live in a house now but doesn't mean it won't get stolen. Secondly, I've had packages dropped off at the wrong address.

Hopefully the fact that he left a positive reply will prove he did get the package and you win the dispute.

Captain America
08-01-2014, 06:25 AM
This is an interesting point. I was always under the impression that it costs about $400 to prosecute a case in small claims court. Is it? Isn't it?

hoosierhiver
08-01-2014, 06:52 AM
This is an interesting point. I was always under the impression that it costs about $400 to prosecute a case in small claims court. Is it? Isn't it?

I think it varies depending on where you live, in Indiana it's only about $80 and you get it back if you win (if you claim it in the suit).

Radio Flyer
08-01-2014, 12:21 PM
time to call Guido and have him chat awhile.

Ukejenny
08-01-2014, 12:58 PM
I had almost the exact same experience a few months ago. I sold a Gretsch guitalele on ebay, buyer left positive feedback, we even had an email exchange about best strings, tunings etc. A few weeks later a notice from Paypal saying the buyer had issued a chargeback as he claimed he had never bought the item in the first place, and they had taken the money from my account in the meantime while the investigation was 'pending'. Looking on his feedback I saw he had resold the Gretsch a few days before issuing the chargeback.

Get proactive on it - phone paypal, make it clear you class it as a fraud, a theft. Tell them you are going to the police, they'll suddenly be very helpful! Visit the Action Fraud website and ring them too, the money has been taken from your account so you are out of pocket. You have the guys name and address, and an online trail. keep ringing paypal, Action Fraud and the police if necessary - teach the swine a lesson!

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Yes, I would want to pursue it and fight as well. I hope the Ohana situation is resolved justly.

And dang, about the Gretsch story. They resold it and also got their money back - that is dastardly!!!! Sounds like scam artists abound on these sites. I don't sell on sites, but I purchase. One reason I don't sell is that it is all geared against the sellers now and it is so unfair.

haertig
08-01-2014, 08:21 PM
I don't know how things work in the UK when you say "First Class". Is there any insurance on the shipment, even if there wasn't tracking (don't know if you can even do that, but I'm asking anyway). Because if it was insured you could just file an insurance claim. The buyer claimed they didn't get it, doesn't matter if you belive them or not, just state what they said on the insurance claim form. During the investigation of whether to pay the claim or not, they may contact the buyer and uncover the fraud, much to the buyers dismay.

Or you could call the police and report your ukulele stolen, which it was, and give them the address where you believe the thief lives (where you shipped it to). I don't know how helpful your police are in the UK. Here in the US, the police would probably laugh at you for trying, but maybe things are better over there on your side of the ocean and they'd actually try to help you.

byjimini
08-02-2014, 01:52 AM
I'd jump straight on the phone to eBay, don't bother with email.

It's a lesson for everyone - always always always send via tracked postage with the right insurance. You can use MyHermes, Collect+, UPS, City Link etc as well as Royal Mail. Just make sure you check the t's and c's beforehand as instruments sometimes have packaging requirements to be insured.

Mattyukaholic
08-02-2014, 02:44 AM
I think it varies depending on where you live, in Indiana it's only about $80 and you get it back if you win (if you claim it in the suit).

It's really expensive over here (small claims). I once took my ex landlord to court for promising my rental deposit back and then not delivering. He declared bankruptcy and I ended up getting nothing and lost about 300 in court fees.

Dan Uke
08-02-2014, 02:53 AM
I'd jump straight on the phone to eBay, don't bother with email.

It's a lesson for everyone - always always always send via tracked postage with the right insurance. You can use MyHermes, Collect+, UPS, City Link etc as well as Royal Mail. Just make sure you check the t's and c's beforehand as instruments sometimes have packaging requirements to be insured.

Require signature!! It costs a few dollars more. Delivery confirmation means that it was delivered but doesn't mean the intended person received it

bborzell
08-02-2014, 03:43 AM
Require signature!! It costs a few dollars more. Delivery confirmation means that it was delivered but doesn't mean the intended person received it

Nor does it mean that the ukulele in question was in the package that was delivered. Bottom line is that if you enter into a transaction with a crook, there is a high probability that you will get the short end of the stick.

byjimini
08-02-2014, 03:54 AM
Yes, always require signature. And if the buyer says the package was empty, the courier weighs every package at their depot. If it arrived empty then it would be a lost item covered by insurance. You have to make sure you cover yourself and leave no opportunity for a crook to win - sending without a signature just leaves the door wide open for abuse.

Sad to say, anyway. Shouldn't have to go to all this effort, but you have to.

iamesperambient
08-02-2014, 06:49 AM
Sorry if this thread is inappropriate and breaks any UU rules, please remove it if so.
Just wanted to alert people who occasionally sell ukes on the usual auction site in the UK, of a buyer with the user name 'sidneypopo'.
This "person" bought my Ohana SK-21M sopranino on 15th July, they received it on 19th July and left me really great positive feedback saying 'super cute, great price, great seller etc'.
Then, 2 weeks later at around midnight last night I received a message saying they had opened a claim stating they hadn't received the uke.
Unfortunately for me, I have the proof of postage receipt but it was only sent 1st class, not a recorded tracked service.
Now you would usually think that them leaving positive feedback for the uke, would be proof enough that they received it, but we all know what the auction sites claim policy is like and it usually favours the buyer, no matter how dodgy their claim is.
Anyway, the case is pending and the funds are on hold in pp, so basically it looks like I've lost the Ohana and the money I got for it.
Just wanted to share my frustration and warn people to always send using a tracked service, sorry for the rant.

I feel for you in this case. I actually sold a gretsch electric guitar (70's roc jet). I sold it for 1200 which i was SUPER excited about being its a nice price and i was going to use the money to buy a really nice uke and put towards my savings. I sold the uke for my mom (it was her late husbands) and she was going to take a cut (which was fine she was letting me sell her old stuff). Anyway i sold the guitar, and shipped it out packed well according to all guitar shipping methods using a proper guitar shipping box which i purchased on line for like 30 dollars which was nuts in it's self.
Anyway i get a message saying the guitar had a crack on the neck and i asked for a picture the picture appeared to be the side of the guitar and what looked like a scratch in the paint, not a crack and not on the neck. Anyway this guy asked for a refund, being a fair person i gave it to him nervously being i was scared he woudl get the money back and not mail the guitar back. I did in fact get the guitar back and when i opened it it was like someone took a pin and scratched the paint on the side of the guitar, no damge to the neck no wraped neck and nothing wrong. This guy literally scratched the paint and tried to make it seem as though the guitar was damaged in shipping or that i sent him a damaged guitar. After this i won't sell on ebay. Not to mention they make you wait like 21 days or something to get your money away. So all we got out of this was a scratch on a nice guitar. I totally understand how shady some people can be. What i woudl do is call ebay customer service and try to explain whats going on and see if they can help you. I hope it works out sounds like a nightmare :/

iamesperambient
08-02-2014, 06:56 AM
Yes, I would want to pursue it and fight as well. I hope the Ohana situation is resolved justly.

And dang, about the Gretsch story. They resold it and also got their money back - that is dastardly!!!! Sounds like scam artists abound on these sites. I don't sell on sites, but I purchase. One reason I don't sell is that it is all geared against the sellers now and it is so unfair.

Agreed i also purchase but won't sell ebay, will not help you if you are a seller they also hold your money
them and paypal are the same company and they both have very bad pratice. It's fine for buying but your better
off making less and selling to a local mom and pop music store to be honest or guitar center.

Rllink
08-02-2014, 07:41 AM
I live eight months in Iowa, four months in San Juan, PR. In Iowa, we own a home. The UPS driver, FedEx driver and the Postman have been the same for years. They know us. Packages end up on the back porch. San Juan is different. We live in a condo. It is gated and has security. The Postman can get in, but the rest can't. They can't really just leave packages outside the gate, because we have a lot of foot traffic coming by all the time. We have a Post Office box in San Juan. It is the easiest and safest way to get our mail. But most people who I buy from over the internet do not want to ship to PR, I don't know why that is, and they don't want to send it to a P.O. Box. A lot of times when we are in PR, I have things sent to my in-laws, who live in Iowa, and they send it down to the P.O. box in San Juan. Makes things a little more complicated, but it is what it is.

Ukejenny
08-02-2014, 09:08 AM
I live eight months in Iowa, four months in San Juan, PR. In Iowa, we own a home. The UPS driver, FedEx driver and the Postman have been the same for years. They know us. Packages end up on the back porch. San Juan is different. We live in a condo. It is gated and has security. The Postman can get in, but the rest can't. They can't really just leave packages outside the gate, because we have a lot of foot traffic coming by all the time. We have a Post Office box in San Juan. It is the easiest and safest way to get our mail. But most people who I buy from over the internet do not want to ship to PR, I don't know why that is, and they don't want to send it to a P.O. Box. A lot of times when we are in PR, I have things sent to my in-laws, who live in Iowa, and they send it down to the P.O. box in San Juan. Makes things a little more complicated, but it is what it is.

Do people think a PO box is just a scammer waiting to pounce? I notice a lot of online stores and sellers saying the don't ship to PO boxes. To me, it seems a safer way of keeping a package safe than delivering to a door where someone may not be home...

Tootler
08-02-2014, 12:21 PM
It's really expensive over here (small claims). I once took my ex landlord to court for promising my rental deposit back and then not delivering. He declared bankruptcy and I ended up getting nothing and lost about 300 in court fees.

UK court fees here (https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees). You must have paid more than basic court fees on the basis of these.

My daughter's claim was successful. She didn't say whether she got her fees back but the judge did award her ex landlord about 10% of the sum for notional "damage" so she actually got 90% of her bond back. She was happy with the outcome. She certainly didn't have to shell out 300 to make her claim. She couldn't have afforded to.

Mattyukaholic
08-02-2014, 12:40 PM
UK court fees here (https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees). You must have paid more than basic court fees on the basis of these.

My daughter's claim was successful. She didn't say whether she got her fees back but the judge did award her ex landlord about 10% of the sum for notional "damage" so she actually got 90% of her bond back. She was happy with the outcome. She certainly didn't have to shell out 300 to make her claim. She couldn't have afforded to.

The standard fees aren't too bad but once you get to a hearing they add on loads more. It was an awful experience for me.

hoosierhiver
08-02-2014, 01:36 PM
Do people think a PO box is just a scammer waiting to pounce? I notice a lot of online stores and sellers saying the don't ship to PO boxes. To me, it seems a safer way of keeping a package safe than delivering to a door where someone may not be home...

I think it's more about UPS/FedEx won't deliver to po boxes and some sellers don't want to make the effort to go to the post office to mail it.