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View Full Version : CA glue as pore filler and finish?



tangimango
08-08-2014, 02:31 AM
Ive just saw videos of pen makers using just ca glue for filling and finishing. Will ca glue method work for a rosewood head plate?

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
08-08-2014, 10:30 AM
For grain filler, yes.

Kent Chasson
08-08-2014, 03:52 PM
I've seen a Ken Franklin guitar that was finished with CA and it looked great. I'm sure there's a learning curve there but a small surface like a headplate shouldn't be too hard to do. Makes me cringe to think about it though since I'm so allergic.

Pete Howlett
08-08-2014, 11:53 PM
I use this method to seal my veneer headplates. It's a good method.

saltytri
08-09-2014, 04:27 AM
Plan on using some ventilation.

resoman
08-09-2014, 04:36 AM
Plan on using some ventilation.
Man, you're not kiddin!! I experimented with the CA yesterday and ended up doing a whole tenor with it. I put my lacquer respirator on

srpompon
08-09-2014, 08:54 AM
any good tutorial about CA?

DennisK
08-09-2014, 09:39 AM
Here's a fairly recent thread on another forum with some process info http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43613

jcalkin
08-09-2014, 12:19 PM
Chuck Moore just had a CA pore filler story in the newest American Lutherie. He's pore filled his last 400+ ukes with it. I like his system a lot. Once the pores are filled you could easily just keep on layering the stuff, sand it level, and buff it out to an amazing gloss (NOT part of Chuck's system, though). I just pore filled a pair of mahogany banjo necks with CA, and they looked so nice I would have stopped there if I wasn't working on a Tru Oil story. The CA fumes are truly brutal when you spread so much of it at once. I also pore filled a guitar and a bouzouki body with CA. Working outside with a fan blowing on you is a fine idea.

tangimango
08-09-2014, 02:08 PM
So just cake on ca glue on headstock and sand back flat?

Michael Smith
08-09-2014, 05:47 PM
doesn't CA yellow with time? I can see that would not be a concern as a pore filler but as a finish?

jcalkin
08-10-2014, 02:52 AM
So just cake on ca glue on headstock and sand back flat?

Chuck should jump in here, I don't like talking for him. But. . .he squirts on a bit of thick CA and wipes it around with a bit of paper towel, trying to keep it smooth and level. Let it dry, do it again. You can lightly sand between coats. You can PM Chuck and ask for his work sheet. There are many details I haven't mentioned, and he's very specific. You out there, Chuck?

jcalkin
08-10-2014, 03:53 AM
doesn't CA yellow with time? I can see that would not be a concern as a pore filler but as a finish?

Not that I've noticed. Nitro and Tru-Oil both yellow given enough time. No one seems to care. When pore filling with CA one should never sand back to wood, which leaves an over-all coating, be it thin. If it yellowed in a bad way Chuck would know by now.

resoman
08-10-2014, 04:16 AM
Where Chuck lives was the point of impact for the hurricane Iselle that just came through the Big Island. I'm hoping for the best for him but last night I saw some of the photos and video of the hurricane landfall and it doesn't look good there. It supposedly weakened to a tropical storm just before it hit there was still a lot of devastation.
Hoping for the best.

wickedwahine11
08-10-2014, 04:47 AM
Where Chuck lives was the point of impact for the hurricane Iselle that just came through the Big Island. I'm hoping for the best for him but last night I saw some of the photos and video of the hurricane landfall and it doesn't look good there. It supposedly weakened to a tropical storm just before it hit there was still a lot of devastation.
Hoping for the best.

He is doing okay but there is a lot of devastation in that area, resulting in loss of cell towers, etc. He went on Facebook yesterday to let everyone know his family is fine, but his internet access is going to be very intermittent for a while, so I don't expect him on UU very much until everything is back up and running on the Big Island.

sonomajazz
08-10-2014, 06:11 AM
I've seen a Ken Franklin guitar that was finished with CA and it looked great. I'm sure there's a learning curve there but a small surface like a headplate shouldn't be too hard to do. Makes me cringe to think about it though since I'm so allergic.

Well, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes...I never would have believed it...Stopped by to see Ken on Friday and saw one guitar hanging in the shop that had a rough coat of CA applied to it and played a beautiful little concert finished and buffed CA...very interesting.

Michael N.
08-10-2014, 09:58 AM
Awful stuff to use in any sort of quantity. Rather you than me!

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
08-10-2014, 01:51 PM
im getting a new toy tomorrow so ill find something to grain fill and do a video

Steveperrywriter
08-10-2014, 03:10 PM
im getting a new toy tomorrow so ill find something to grain fill and do a video

New toy? Camera?

srpompon
08-10-2014, 04:32 PM
yeahhh!! a nice tutorial!!!



im getting a new toy tomorrow so ill find something to grain fill and do a video

tangimango
08-13-2014, 01:46 AM
So is the order less ca glue less toxic or is the toxic fumes still there but just cant smell it?

Kevin Waldron
08-13-2014, 05:48 AM
Not to side track this tread but along the lines of filler, there is a product fairly new on the market called Aqua Coat....... anyone tried it yet?

http://aquacoat.com/collections/products/products/clear-grain-filler

Blessings,

Kevin

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
08-13-2014, 12:31 PM
tutorial video done

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?99641-CA-glue-pore-filling-video-first-coat

jcalkin
08-13-2014, 02:47 PM
Not to side track this tread but along the lines of filler, there is a product fairly new on the market called Aqua Coat....... anyone tried it yet?

http://aquacoat.com/collections/products/products/clear-grain-filler

Blessings,

Kevin

I was sent a jar to try out. I've only done test pieces so far, but it looks very promising. Application is fast and clean, no fumes, no real clean up. Everything seems to stick to it. More particulars soon.

Flyfish57
08-14-2014, 02:47 AM
With Chuck's method, I found Star Bond and Bounty paper towels to be the key. Follow Chuck's directions and it's a great system. It's the way I've been filling for over a year now.

Aqua Coat looks interesting, but what do they mean by "Minimal shrinkage"? I'll pick some up and use in on my next "loaner" uke to see what it'll look like in a year's time.
After talking to Michael DaSilva last month, I'm going to be trying UV curing for grain fill this fall on two ukes I'm making for myself. To me, it sounds like it could be the Holy Grail of filling.

resoman
08-14-2014, 06:45 AM
I liked the results I got with the CA but man, that stuff is nasty. I ordered a can of the Aqua Coat yesterday and will give it a try.
FlyFish, the "minimal shrinkage" statement caught my attention too!

Beau Hannam Ukuleles
08-14-2014, 08:49 AM
I'm going to be trying UV curing for grain fill this fall on two ukes I'm making for myself. To me, it sounds like it could be the Holy Grail of filling.

The only problem with the UV system is the $1500-$2000 (or is it more?) you have to pay for the lamp then more bulbs..........

Flyfish57
08-14-2014, 09:00 AM
The only problem with the UV system is the $1500-$2000 (or is it more?) you have to pay for the lamp then more bulbs..........

Michael said his system was about $2000 and that was enough to deter me from something I just wanted to try. And I don't really have to buff out a uke five minutes after I clear it. I can wait til the next day. But, my brother bought a UV curing system to cure primer on cars during the winter months here. So that makes it a minimal investment for me to try.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
08-14-2014, 10:13 AM
I'm typing on an iPhone so I'll make my reply brief. It'll be weeks before power and Internet are restored to most folks here.
I've used ca as a pore filler for many years and I'll never regret doing so. It's cut my finishing time in half and the end result is far superior to anything else I've tried. Yes, the fumes can be an irritant to the year and throat but my research has shown that the health threat is similar to pepper spray, an irritant but not toxic. Still, I always figure if it smells bad it's trying to kill me and when using ca glue I use all the same precautions that I do when spraying lacquer. The easiest thing is to work outside with either a fan or the wind blowing the fumes away from you. It's easy since doing an entire uke only tales less than two minutes.
I fold up 2" squares of Bounty paper towels and spread a squiggle of glue over the surface quickly. Three coats can be applied and sanded within an hour or so. Those who have followed my method exactly have become instant fans but it's not for everyone. You have to work quickly, precisely and with confidence. A run or a drip will ruin your day. It needs to be applied thinly and evenly. I'm happy to give anyone my hand out on my procedure ( or get a subscription to the GAL magazine and read about it there. Email me @ moorebettahukes@aol.com. It may take me a while to follow through as normal means of communication are pretty tough at the moment.

jcalkin
08-14-2014, 10:46 AM
I'm typing on an iPhone so I'll make my reply brief. It'll be weeks before power and Internet are restored to most folks here.
I've used ca as a pore filler for many years and I'll never regret doing so. It's cut my finishing time in half and the end result is far superior to anything else I've tried. Yes, the fumes can be an irritant to the year and throat but my research has shown that the health threat is similar to pepper spray, an irritant but not toxic. Still, I always figure if it smells bad it's trying to kill me and when using ca glue I use all the same precautions that I do when spraying lacquer. The easiest thing is to work outside with either a fan or the wind blowing the fumes away from you. It's easy since doing an entire uke only tales less than two minutes.
I fold up 2" squares of Bounty paper towels and spread a squiggle of glue over the surface quickly. Three coats can be applied and sanded within an hour or so. Those who have followed my method exactly have become instant fans but it's not for everyone. You have to work quickly, precisely and with confidence. A run or a drip will ruin your day. It needs to be applied thinly and evenly. I'm happy to give anyone my hand out on my procedure ( or get a subscription to the GAL magazine and read about it there. Email me @ moorebettahukes@aol.com. It may take me a while to follow through as normal means of communication are pretty tough at the moment.

Glad you and yours are OK, Chuck.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
08-15-2014, 06:33 AM
The Aqua Coat may be similar to CrystaLac, a product I used to get from McFeely's. Being water based it will shrink back. It's discouraging to think you've done a good job pore filling only to find that in six months it looks as if you've done nothing at all. But honestly I don't know why we are so obsessed with mirror finishes. I guess life's not hard enough as it is. ;)

Paul Henneberry
08-16-2014, 02:02 PM
Hi,
Sounds interesting and I will give it a go. Is "bounty paper towel" just everyday kitchen paper towel on a roll? I don't think we get that brand in Australia so I thought I'd better ask first.

cheers

Paul

bigphil
08-16-2014, 02:38 PM
Yes, it is a "kitchen paper towel on a roll" but I'm pretty sure Chuck has specifically chosen that brand. I think he said it has the highest cotton content, actually I may not be recalling his words correctly so don't quote me. He does specify the brand he prefers for the best, most uniform application though. I'm sure he will clarify when he gets a chance to get back on line.

It works great by he way, I'm one of the instant converts he spoke of. :)

Paul Henneberry
01-24-2015, 07:01 PM
Just finishing the polishing of 4 sopranos where I used CA as the filler under nitro and the results are really impressive. I had some Loctite 401 and 406 on hand and tried both. The 401 set far to quickly to smear around but the 406 worked a treat. The fumes are horrible and I ended up wearing an organic respirator and monogoggles. Two coats, light sand, another coat and then sanded to 400 prior to spraying worked for me. I think I used about 20 grams per uke.
I had previously been grain filling with the west system 105/206 epoxy but this approach is much better. I noticed with the epoxy that if I wasn't very careful with brushing out any of the epoxy sanding dust from and partially filled pores the next coat of epoxy would turn the dust white which would show through the final finish. CA is more crystalline so it sands cleaner and any dust is invisibly absorbed into the next coat.
I needed to get some more CA and had a look on ebay. The Loctite CA's aren't that expensive but I saw this stuff from China for $1.50 for 20 grams delivered and decided to try it out. It is a fair bit thinner than 406 and would work really well wicking into cracks. It dries hard and sands just as well as 406 on a few little trials that I did. I tried it as a grain filler on some raw walnut and it seemed to have a slightly longer working time than 406 which was good but being thinner I might need 4 or 5 coats to do the same job. For the price it seems very good value and I'll be getting some more although Ill be testing it extensively for yellowing and shrinkage before using it s a grain filler.
cheers
Paul

75374

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
01-24-2015, 08:43 PM
Well, there you go. Glad it worked for you. I've used it on over 500 ukes and it continues to impress me.
Buy Starbond EM-150 from CPH international online. About 30 bucks a pint.

redyak3
01-25-2015, 06:36 AM
Thanks for all the info, did some scales for a skinner awhile back, think I'll try it. Working on my first...