"It Is A Puzzlement!"

Down Up Dick

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Well, I just finished learning my 6 Chords, and I've just about got the Maj7s memorized. But, upon prechecking the minor7 chords, I find that they are the same as the 6 chords! 0000 is Am7, and it's also C6! Wha . . . ? 1111 is Bbm7 and also Eb6. 3324 is Eb7 and also F#6. I have enough trouble learning stuff and keeping it straight without puzzles. If I play 0000 I expect a C6, so how come I get a Am7? And how does it fit into the tune? I even checked another chord chart to see if the first one was incorrect, and it wasn't.

I got the yips trying to figure out Diminished Seventh Chords which are also lots the same. I finally gave up and play them as they are on the music or ignore them--done.

This Ukulele learning is bending my head. I'm really a newby when it comes to chords. When one fingers an F on a Flute or a Trumpet or a Tin Whistle, he gets an F.

I could use a little 'splaining . . .
 
Yeah, I noticed that, too. I'm a bit of a rebel, so when called upon to play Am7, I play C6 instead - and vice versa.

Nobody has complained, yet.
 
I've noticed that as well. I learned long ago that it is very hard to be logical in an illogical world, so I just accept it and move on. You can't change it.
 
Rather than think about it as finger shapes, look up what actual notes make up each chord. Maybe it'll be clearer then?
 
It's the same darned notes. That's why it doesn't make sense. OOOO is OOOO! The only way one can change it is to change his jaw position and close one eye!
 
With only 2 octaves and 4 strings, the ukulele "borrows" chord names all over the place.

Because 2 chords can have the same notes in them, they can be played the same with 2 (or more) different names. The addition of other notes on a guitar can further clarify the chord name.

Please take this with a grain of salt, as I neither read music nor do I have perfect pitch. My knowledge of theory is rudimentary at best, and is based on playing guitar (mediocre at best) for nearly 40 years, and paying attention to people who play Ukulele in the almost 3 years I've been playing. One of my observations is that those players with a Jazz background have a very clear handle on why, as many of them play all over the fretboard. (Take a workshop - any workshop - with Sarah Maisel, for example. In 45 minutes, you will become a better player!)

One of the quandaries you'll see is the D7 vs. Hawaiian D7 chord - 3222 vs 0202 (I think I have that right... Barred 2nd fret, and 3rd fret on A string vs. 2nd fret on G and E, open C and A). The notes in the standard form are ADF#C, while the Hawaiian form is ACF#A - the only difference, note-wise is the lack of a D in the Hawaiian form (And how odd that the root of the chord isn't present in that chord!). They are both D7, yet the appropriateness of the form depends on what you are playing, what chord you are shifting from/to, and what you want the overall sound to be.

I know that the G7 chord is usually taught as 2120, and a C is 3000. I use those sometimes. I find, however, I'm more apt to play the 2nd position chords 5354 and 3345 instead - but that depends entirely on the song. I just like the sound better, and - as Ken Middleton pointed out in a workshop at the 2013 Wine Country Ukulele Festival, when one person plays a 1st position chord, and another plays the 2nd position version of that same chord, it really enhances the sound.

Have I muddied the waters enough? Want to clarify things? Get a copy of Fretboard Roadmaps.


[indent[-Kurt[/indent]
 
Some call naming chords, notes, and intervals "musical spelling." It's a way for the mind, and other musicians, to understand and name what is heard, and to pass it on to others. It's the same thing in writing - most of us just have a better grasp on that, simply because we're used to it. "See" sounds like "C," which sounds like "Sea," but they're all spelled differently. Same with C6 and Am7. You can call it what you want amongst yourself. But at times, others may expect you to spell musical figures correctly.

That's about the best explanation I can come up with, and who knows, it may still be as clear as mud. :eek:
 
Yes you have, ksiegel; both chords are perzactly the same--same notes--same finger position--same strings . . .! And here's yet another piece that doesn't fit this mind bender. The 6 and Maj7 Chords are major chord families, and, of course, the minor seventh chords are MINOR! Yet, (repositioning jaw) they're all played (closing one eye) THE SAME! "It Is A Puzzlement!"
 
Peaceweaver3, I don't think we're talking about the name of these chords. We could call them Pete and Jim and Tom or whatever. We're really talking about the SOUND of the chords. If one plays all four strings open, he gets a Pete Chord, and, if he plays the same chord again, will he get a Jim or Tom Chord?
 
Let’s look at an example….

The C Major chord is C-E-G (the first, third and fifth notes of the C major scale). If we add the sixth note of the scale (A), then we have C6 (C-E-G-A).

The A minor chord is A-C-E (the first, third and fifth notes of the natural A minor scale). If we add the seventh note of the scale (G), then we have Am7 (A-C-E-G).

Same notes, just stacked differently. What you call it (C6 or Am7) depends on the harmonic context.
 
Yes Wicked, but one is not playing the notes one at a time (i. e. A, C, E, G, vs. C, E, G, A). One is playing them both GCEA. So, of course, both strums will sound exactly the same. The ACEG is minor, but will it sound minor? Only if one believes it does and clicks his heels three times.
 
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Gb is the same note as F#...different names ..same note ...as are G# / A b A # / Bb C#/Db D#/Eb......these are all black notes on a piano keyboard and known as Enharmonic one note sound ...two names or "spellings"......It all depends what scale or key they are written in.

The chords you refer to are similar. Same shape, different names ...but same sounds ....there are loads of others ......best bet is this "rocks are hard ,water is wet"
just accept it and move on really ....and look on the bright side ...you learn one chord shape you have a twofer .......:D

Wicked 's reply sounds right but so does yours and that is what music is about...if it sounds right it is............
 
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I realize that music theory is very helpful when one is playing music, even on the ukulele, and I really wish that I had a more knowledge and understanding of it. Every piece of knowledge I can pick up makes me a better ukulele player, but sadly, I can not wait to absorb it all before I embark on my journey. So for the time being anyway, I'm just going with what I have, and pretending the rest is magic, and just playing whatever comes up when it comes up, without very much understanding of the why. I'm a very accepting person. I'm learning a little along the way though, and that is nice. But the magic is working pretty good as well.
 
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CeeJay, you are absolutely correct. I was gonna tell Wicked that she (must be a woman with a name like that) came the closest to having it right (after me). But it's really stupid. Why have a minor that dosen't sound particularly minor? So I have come to the same conclusion that Rllink, and you both did. It doesn't make much sense, so just get over it. I'm not even gonna bother learning minor (ha!) 7th chords. I really enjoyed this thread though.
 
What do you mean, ?...pretending the rest is magic?"

Isn't it all magic? Works that way for me.
 
The A minor chord is A-C-E (the first, third and fifth notes of the natural A minor scale). If we add the seventh note of the scale (G), then we have Am7 (A-C-E-G).

Except that I play the Am7 using the notes A-C-F#-G (0302).

I picked up that shape when I played the Em7 chord on guitar (030220)

I think basically, the answer to Dick's question is that the name of the chord varies based on key and progression. There are pieces of music that make note of the Gb chord, as well as the G# chord. There are other pieces that refer to the F# chord and the Ab chord. And they are, of course, the same notes.

As to why some chords are called minor chords, but hav the same shapes and notes as major or 6th chords, it all depends on the way that the music is written - where it is coming from, and where it is going to.

-Kurt​
 
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