chord help please! Em+

barefootgypsy

barefootgypsy

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Em augmented..... can't find how to play that! And it isn't a mistake on the song sheet, I thought it might be at first, but it's definitely not..... the progression is Em Em+ Em6

At a push I could play Em7 in its place but it wouldn't be right - and I want it right! As this progression is one of the special things about this particular song..... can anyone help, please?
 
Heres one way. Play the normal Em chord 0432. The just walk up the 1st string to 0433 and then 0434.

Another way would be to walk up the 4th string like this:
4432 to 5432 to 6432

Or higher up on the 2nd string : 9777 9787 9797
(Having fun with GuitarToolkit this morning)
 
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Well, there is something wrong, like a misprint. A "+" indicates an augmented chord. Augmented chords are made up of major thirds, not minor thirds. You can't have a minor augmented chord. So, something isn't right with the chord symbol you're looking at.
 
VegasGeorge said:
Well, there is something wrong, like a misprint. A "+" indicates an augmented chord. Augmented chords are made up of major thirds, not minor thirds. You can't have a minor augmented chord. So, something isn't right with the chord symbol you're looking at.
Click to expand...
Not true. Augmented just means the 5th is sharp. So minor augmented is root, minor third, sharp 5. So e, g, c in this case. This is also a C major chord first inversion so you wouldn't often see it spelled Em+ but makes perfect sense on this case where the focus note is going from 5 to sharp 5 to 6.
 
Jim Hanks said:
Not true. Augmented just means the 5th is sharp. So minor augmented is root, minor third, sharp 5. So e, g, c in this case. This is also a C major chord first inversion so you wouldn't often see it spelled Em+ but makes perfect sense on this case where the focus note is going from 5 to sharp 5 to 6.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your point - I did wonder about this, especially when I couldn't find fingering for the chord - but then, researching the song, I found this quote... “musicologists have praised the E minor augmented ascent, which is the first sound we hear.” It's interesting!
 
barefootgypsy said:
At a push I could play Em7 in its place but it wouldn't be right - and I want it right! As this progression is one of the special things about this particular song..... can anyone help, please?
Click to expand...


Now you have me curious.... Would you mind sharing which song it is?
 
Jim Hanks said:
Not true. Augmented just means the 5th is sharp. So minor augmented is root, minor third, sharp 5. So e, g, c in this case. This is also a C major chord first inversion so you wouldn't often see it spelled Em+ but makes perfect sense on this case where the focus note is going from 5 to sharp 5 to 6.
Click to expand...

I must agree with VegasGeorge. An augmented chord is two major thirds. Raising the fifth of a minor chord does not make it a "minor augmented" chord. It should be Em#5. (Or just call it C/E.)
 
barefootgypsy said:
Em augmented..... can't find how to play that! And it isn't a mistake on the song sheet, I thought it might be at first, but it's definitely not..... the progression is Em Em+ Em6

At a push I could play Em7 in its place but it wouldn't be right - and I want it right! As this progression is one of the special things about this particular song..... can anyone help, please?
Click to expand...

They could mean EmMAJ7 (E,G,B,D#).... which makes much more harmonic sense.

EDIT: After reading your other post mentioning the ascent, I take that back. I would definitely go with Em, Em#5, Em6. (0,4,3,2 - 0,4,3,3 - 0,4,3,4)

But, Em Augmented is definitely not correct terminology.
 
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Wicked said:
They could mean EmMAJ7 (E,G,B,D#).... which makes much more harmonic sense.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for your input, I appreciate it - and I had a feeling that my question might result in a little "discord" on the answer! Seriously though, Jim's first answer seems to suit the song just fine! And I see he's edited that post to put a couple of extra ideas in.... it's just Wizzard! ;)
 
Jim, it's been a while since I was at conservatory, and I certainly don't remember everything I was taught there. But I do remember augmented chords. I looked for my Harvard Dictionary of Music, but I can't find it. But the definition under "augmented chords" in Wikipedia is exactly what I remember. "In music, an augmented triad is a triad, or chord, consisting of two major thirds (an augmented fifth). The term augmented triad arises from an augmented triad being considered a major chord whose top note (fifth) is raised, or augmented." You will not find a minor chord within a chord consisting of "two major thirds." So, there is no minor augmented chord, not now, not ever. You could have an E minor chord with a raised 5th, which might be styled as "Em+," the "+" indicating the raised 5th. But it wouldn't be an augmented chord.
 
I found the tab that has "Em+" written. Luckily they have the guitar tab written out for that chord... The notes are E,G,B,C.... which is Em add #5 (OR CMaj7/E).

I would stick with the progression I put in my previous post, or you can go with Em, Em add #5, Em6 (0,4,3,2 - 0,0,3,2 - 0,1,3,2)

Either one should work. It just depends if you prefer the ascent to be at the top of the inversion or the bottom.

EDIT: After listening to the tune again, I would definitely go with the progression on this post. It fits the original intent better than having the ascent on the A string.
 
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VegasGeorge said:
Jim, it's been a while since I was at conservatory, and I certainly don't remember everything I was taught there. But I do remember augmented chords. I looked for my Harvard Dictionary of Music, but I can't find it. But the definition under "augmented chords" in Wikipedia is exactly what I remember. "In music, an augmented triad is a triad, or chord, consisting of two major thirds (an augmented fifth). The term augmented triad arises from an augmented triad being considered a major chord whose top note (fifth) is raised, or augmented." You will not find a minor chord within a chord consisting of "two major thirds." So, there is no minor augmented chord, not now, not ever. You could have an E minor chord with a raised 5th, which might be styled as "Em+," the "+" indicating the raised 5th. But it wouldn't be an augmented chord.
Click to expand...
Well, there's theory and then there's practice. :p I hereby stand corrected on the theory, but I still think it is fairly common practice to use the terms "augmented" and "raised 5th" interchangeably.
 
Jim Hanks said:
Well, there's theory and then there's practice. :p I hereby stand corrected on the theory, but I still think it is fairly common practice to use the terms "augmented" and "raised 5th" interchangeably.
Click to expand...

You are correct that a raised fifth is referred to as an augmented fifth. The use of an augmented fifth, however, does not create an augmented chord in every case. A triad must contain two major thirds to be considered augmented.

It may seem like splitting hairs, but this particular instance is a perfect example of why standard labels are needed. The person who wrote the tab using the symbol Em+ created considerable confusion. A proper label would have removed any doubt.
 
Wicked said:
It may seem like splitting hairs, but this particular instance is a perfect example of why standard labels are needed.
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Well, there probably are, but that doesn't mean everybody will use them. I learned about "standard written English" in school, but folks 'round here don't talk like dat. :)

By the way, your signature image is wrong. With a caption like "thou shalt not" shouldn't he be holding something with 6 strings? :p
 
To each and every one of you who has replied to my question, thank you so much - I guessed that it would initiate this sort of debate and thanks for taking up the baton - I have basic music theory but nowhere near conservatoire standard and I'm fascinated with complex chords - the most I learned about at college were 6ths, 7ths, 9ths etc - in the context of learning about 20th century music by Debussy and his contemporaries.... tabulation is something else I've learned about and now use, since taking up the uke. I'm truly indebted to you all for discussing this and educating me further! I'm going to print the thread off, and I'll try ALL the fingering suggestions.

The reason I'm attempting the song is the Seasons of the Ukulele, Season 131 (current) - songs by artists from a place you've called home..... Roy Wood (long hair and glasses in the vid) wrote this song (a hit in the UK) - he's quite a star from the 60's and 70's and he's from my town - Blackberry Way is held locally to refer to Blackberry Lane, a couple of miles from here.... we used to see him about but he's moved now. Still long hair and coloured shades!
 
Bill1 said:
Rules and theory are made to be broken. The progression is Em Em+ Em6. The progression shows a movement in the fourth note of the chord. So using the "normal" Em on a ukulele, the notes go GEGB GEGB# GEGC#. If you realise that pattern in the fourth note, and know the notes on your fretboard, the term "augmented" is not required, and you do not need to use a terminology dictionary. Obviously there is a lot of value in a common terminology, so the word "augmented" is a valuable communication tool and the terminology can be important.
In this case when you are working our the tune by yourself, what is important is that the B B#(C) C# progression in the chords seems to define the sound of the tune. Once you have heard the progression of notes and you can remember it, listen for it in other music and you will find it, or have a little noodle on it and create your own tune.
So instead of reaching for a chord dictionary, write out the notes in the chords, and see if you can also find the melody, and try to work out the missing notes in chords you have never seen before. Then check your answer with this type of post or a chord dictionary.
Click to expand...

I think that everyone is in agreement on the mechanics. The problem was that the author of the tab chose to create their own name for a chord (Em+) and that caused confusion. To his/her credit, a guitar tab was used to define the "Em+", but it did not include the actual notes, so anyone who does not play guitar is unable to decipher the author's intent. Once we knew the actual notes, it became simple.

So, lessons learned:

1. Many tabs on the internet are confusing, incorrect or both.
2. There is no such thing as a "Minor Augmented" chord.
3. There is a correct name for every chord (In many cases, there is more than one name, depending on context - but you know exactly what the notes should be in every case.)

Most importantly, Barefootgypsy now has multiple options to play the tune she wanted. (Yeah, Team!)
 
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Well, I'm totally confused here, but that's easy to do...

I'd like to see your interpretation of the tune, bfg, when you get it allfiggeredout!
 
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