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brUKEman
08-17-2014, 11:27 AM
A few people from my uke group just started doing Nursing Home performances (for free as part of the Uke2Heal.com) community.

There are anywhere from 3 to 8 People performing. I started using my Roland AC33 with one mic and one uke plugged in, but I have found we need more than that. I need at least 3 mics and 2 instrument inputs. I went to my local music store and he had a Great Deal on a Samsung Auro D412a active loudspeaker (400 watts) and a Behringer Xeny x1202 Bus mixer. Do you think that would be sufficient or would I be better off with a PA system with 2 speakers, one on each side. My main concern is portability and the Samsung only weighs about 30 lbs. Also ease of setup, as I am not a technical person. Do you think that will handle my needs or what other suggestions do you have.

Here is the page form the amp? http://professional.audiosure.co.za/?p=95

What would be my best overall setup.

bnolsen
08-17-2014, 12:11 PM
i've heard good things about the kustom pa50 system. even tried one at guitar center with an eleuke pluggged in. the pa50 has 3 inputs and the ability to daisy chain other pa50s via xlr (mic cable) and additionally handle a subwoofer

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?97960-Amp-PA-advice

ricdoug
08-17-2014, 01:55 PM
Two PA50's give you 4 microphone inputs, 4 instrument inputs and 2 MP3 player inputs. I used 4 of them with 8 microphones at a gig yesterday outdoors and am using 2 at a gig tonight. I'll post photos later. Ric

Ukuleleblues
08-17-2014, 01:57 PM
The PA50 is a nice choice @$99. They weigh 13 lbs each, have a speaker stand hole and handle. Take a look at the back, it has 2 XLR and 2 1/4 inputs that can be used at the same time. You just need a way to control volume on the 1/4 pickup as the channel volume if for both the XLR and 1/4. When you connect them together you add another set of inputs. The inputs play through all the speakers connect together. The XLR has Phantom power so you can use a condenser mic.

I use condenser mics like this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/condenser-microphones/nady-spc-15-condenser-microphone-buy-2-save

They will easily pick up 2-3 ukes.

The MXL 990 also works well for a group. Soloist just steps up to the mic. They are sensitive to feedback though.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/condenser-microphones/mxl-990-condenser-microphone-with-shockmount


I bought all the XLR cables and a couple of 25 foot power cables here. Good quality cables for 1 buck or more than the cheepos.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5288&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4754&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4755&seq=1&format=2

I just did a family night Luau on Tues with 3 PA 50s. There were about 80-100 people there. We had two PA 50s on each side of the band and one in the corner to the right to fill in the sound. 2 SPC15 mics, each uke player/singer used one and just positioned it between the uke and mouth. 1 Dynamic mic was used for the bass. Worked fine. I even record directly off of the In/Outs connectors with a Zoom H2.

I've used them as stage monitors. I bought a 400watt pure sine wave inverter and have run them both off a 18 AH batter for over 3 hours.

I regularly plug my guitar into my mic channel's 1/4 input and play and sing off that one channel. I control the guitar volume with a digitech RP90 with a foot pedal programmed to be a volume control.

Hope you find this helpful.

There is a lot of info in this thread. http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?5333-Battery-powered-ukulele-amplification&highlight=portable

brUKEman
08-17-2014, 05:30 PM
If I use 2 PA50's, how do I just join them together or do I have to put them thru a mixer if so which one do you suggest. Will that be enough horsepower to accompany 7 people performing in a decent sized recreation room in a nursing home with about 50-60 people attending. Also, do you suggest I put them up on stands or are they sufficient on the floor. I also noticed there was a PA100. Would that work better then 2 pa50's
Appreciate all the help, but I just want to make sure the audience can clearly hear, and also us players need to hear what we are doing. Right now it is a little difficult. Thanks.....

ricdoug
08-17-2014, 06:02 PM
The PA 50's are modular, brUKEman. You can use as many as you need for your application. They connect together with microphone cables. No matter how many you add, they all will amplify the content of all the other PA50's. I used 4 PA50's this weekend at a community block party with an audience exceeding 300! 8 microphones did the job nicely. You only need to use the mixers built into the PA50's. Ric

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/PA50BlockParty1.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/PA50BlockParty2.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/PA50BlockParty3.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/PA50MollyBlooms1.jpg

Ukuleleblues
08-17-2014, 07:10 PM
If I use 2 PA50's, how do I just join them together or do I have to put them thru a mixer if so which one do you suggest. Will that be enough horsepower to accompany 7 people performing in a decent sized recreation room in a nursing home with about 50-60 people attending. Also, do you suggest I put them up on stands or are they sufficient on the floor. I also noticed there was a PA100. Would that work better then 2 pa50's
Appreciate all the help, but I just want to make sure the audience can clearly hear, and also us players need to hear what we are doing. Right now it is a little difficult. Thanks.....
I took these pics for you and forgot to put the link in my posting.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114208724970218454913/PA50?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Like Ric said the mixer is built in. Look at the picture of the back of the amp. There are two mic (xlr) connectors under the word Sync, one is labeled in the other out. You connect additional amps by plugging in a mic cable to an "in" on one speaker and "out" on another speaker. You can daisy chain them together, the mix from all the amps is shared.

Definitely get some speaker stands. It will make your sound travel much better than if you keep them on the floor. I found a pair of nice light aluminum stands on Ebay, for $44, much easier to carry than the heavy steel set I have.

anthonyg
08-18-2014, 12:29 AM
You had me intrigued with the "Samsung" speaker. Its a Samson.

Anyway. What's been recommended is just fine. You could even use a smaller, lighter, cheaper speaker than that in a small gig situation such as a 10" model or even an 8" model. One is enough to start with. If you find it to be lacking you can buy a second speaker later. You want a speaker stand though so add that to the cost along with cables at the very least.

Anthony

ralphk
08-18-2014, 03:20 AM
The local Guitar shop has the PA 50 for $70 the other day.
Great buy

pektel
08-18-2014, 04:15 AM
I've just started collecting gear for performances. My little bit of research told me a couple things about what I personally needed/decided on:

1. Buy active PA speakers

2. Buy a passive (not sure if "passive" is the correct term, but one without a built-in amplifier is what I mean) mixer

That combo takes almost all the math out of matching up speakers with mixer power. At least it seems way easier to me.

I'm still in the market for a mixer, but for PA speakers I bought a pair of Yamaha MSR250's. I would have Kustom PA50's probably, but samash (at the time) had the Yamaha's for around $200 each (almost 50% off). I also liked the idea of 10" drivers. I believe the Kustom PA50's are only 4 1/2" drivers. I also play guitar, and have a multi-effects pedal for the uke, so I wanted something with more punch. Although for just vocals and uke, the 4 1/2" drivers should provide enough range.

One thing I will say about the MSR250's - They're freaking LOUD. In fact, I haven't even had a situation where the second one has been needed.

ricdoug
08-18-2014, 05:37 AM
The PA50's work great for guitar, too. They have very wide range frequency response. I like the fact that they are lightweight and modular. Use as many or as few as you need for the job. You can really increase your coverage by placing them facing different positions. We always plug a bass guitar into a dedicaticated bass amplifier. Ric

ricdoug
08-18-2014, 05:42 AM
If I use 2 PA50's, how do I just join them together or do I have to put them thru a mixer if so which one do you suggest. Will that be enough horsepower to accompany 7 people performing in a decent sized recreation room in a nursing home with about 50-60 people attending. Also, do you suggest I put them up on stands or are they sufficient on the floor. I also noticed there was a PA100. Would that work better then 2 pa50's
Appreciate all the help, but I just want to make sure the audience can clearly hear, and also us players need to hear what we are doing. Right now it is a little difficult. Thanks.....

If you put two people to a microphone and run the microphones hot, 4 microphones will work fine for eight people. I like these microphones for both performance and price:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/dynamic-microphones/digital-reference-drv100-buy-one-get-two-free

brUKEman
08-19-2014, 02:40 PM
Ok... after all the support I received here I decided to go for the PA50. I picked up 2 of them today for $100 each and will test them out tomorrow at our Nursing Home Gig.

If I daisy chain the 2 PA50's does it make a difference where I plug into. For example, I will have all the mics closer to one side so can I plug in the 3 mics into one PA50 (2 XLR & 1 Pin jack). From what I understand everything will come out both speakers so it doesn't matter. Also, I have an AC33 amp, how do I hook that up to the system to use as monitor (at least until I pick up another PA50 to use as a monitor. I also still need to pick up the Amp Stands. I will update you after the gig.

Rick Turner
08-19-2014, 02:58 PM
An old trick: You can run two or even three dynamic mics (Sure SM57's, '58's, etc.) in parallel with a custom "Y" cable and then into one mic input of a console. No, you don't have separate control over the volume of each mic, but mic placement and knowing how to work a mic can overcome that issue. You can even wire them out of phase to cancel background noise but allow close signal sources to come through just fine, and it will also tend to cut down on feedback. When doing this, you do need to put a load resistor in the circuit: http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/180/~/can-i-parallel-microphones-into-one-input-of-my-mixer%3F

brUKEman
08-20-2014, 03:05 AM
Rick, thanks for the info on the mics. I will daisy chain the two units as they do not require a mixer and I will use the separate volume control of each input.

brUKEman
08-20-2014, 03:02 PM
Well, just got back from my first gig using 2 PA50's. I Daisy chained the 2 units and ran 3 mics/2ukes into it. I just placed the units on small tables as I have not gotten the Speaker Stands yet. I am not a technical person but I just connected the cables, turned it on and it worked beautifully. I turned up the channel volume 1/2 way and controlled the volume with the master. My only issue was that I had one mic/XLR connecter and a 1/4" jack connected on the same channel so that I couldn't use separate volumes on each as I did not have an volume control on the uke. Also the speakers were facing the crowd so we couldn't hear them very well. I was amazed at the sound. I loved them so much that I am now going to order a 3rd PA50 to use as a monitor facing the band. It was a large open room in a nursing home with about 50 people in attendance. I didn't even have to break out my Roland AC33 which is what I was using before I received the two speakers. If anyone is hesitant in getting these speakers, I would say go for them..

anthonyg
08-20-2014, 03:44 PM
Its good that it worked out. Be VERY careful with foldback monitors. This is where 99% of the problems people have with PA's stems from. If you can operate without one then you will get better sound and less problems. If you really want to try one then the AC-33 will function as a foldback monitor. Go into the AC-33 through the rca plugs.

The reason why you should have gone down the road of a mixer and powered speaker is that they are designed from the start to deal with the requirements of professional performance and you don't need all these special cables and compromises. I don't want to diss on the PA50 but it is what it is.

Anthony

brUKEman
08-20-2014, 04:04 PM
I feel the PA50's do the trick very nice for the price and are very portable. What sort of problems would I have just daisy chaining a third unit and pointing it in our direction as a monitor. If I find it necessary, I can always add a mixer at a later time.

anthonyg
08-20-2014, 04:14 PM
A foldback monitor more or less leads to feedback in the front of house speakers. You have to be careful in setting the sound level for foldback monitors or there will be screeching feedback. To provide good foldback to the performers without screeching feedback to the audience is where you really need a professional sound man with the right gear for the job. Performers demanding more and more foldback is the bane of a sound guys working life. You have to learn to live with less than you want and the more performers you have on stage all wanting to hear each other the harder it gets. If you really want to keep it simple and cheap then the performers are better off practising to perform without foldback.

Anthony

brUKEman
08-21-2014, 09:46 AM
Ricdoug: I just got 2 PA50's for my uke group to perform in nursing homes. I daisy chained them and they seem to work well. How can I best incorporate my Roland AC33 into the system as a Monitor so the group can hear themselves.

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 04:54 PM
brUKEman, the SYNC In and Out on the bottom of the PA50's are universal line level ins and outs. You can use either one of them as an input or output. It's a low level signal. You can try plugging a microphone cable from one of the SYNC Out XLR jacks to the microphone input of the AC-33. The AC-33 has an automatic anti-feedback circuit that will help. Start out with the volumes set low.

The SYNC Jacks are also where you would plug an external mixer in to control all the PA50's you have daisy chained.

I'm a school trained live sound engineer and have the equipment to setup large venues with a separate monitor mix. I like the simplicity and reduced time of the setup and teardown, reduced weight and portability of the PA50's. The PA50's work fine as monitors. UkuleleBlues Jimmy made endcaps out of plywood for his PA50's to get different angles. I'll dig up some photo's of a backyard party we did with 3 PA50's. Ric

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 05:02 PM
This was a large party with two large canopies and four long rows of tables that stretched behind where they setup our stage canopy. I aimed the PA50's at different zones. We plugged an MP3 player in at the dinner break and the sound was full and equal throughout the party area:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CraigAndTheCruisers2.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CraigAndTheCruisers3.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CraigAndTheCruisers5.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CraigAndTheCruisers6.jpg

Ukuleleblues
08-21-2014, 05:02 PM
I quit using the "floor" monitor end caps and put the PA50 used for a monitor on a stand and point it toward my ear, at ear level. Somebody gave me the advice, "hey your ears are on the side not on your face or in you nose" . Works great like that. Just did a storefront street gig with 2 PA50s tonight, what a bang for the buck!

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 05:04 PM
We had six microphones setup at that gig:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/CraigAndTheCruisers1.jpg

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 05:05 PM
I quit using the "floor" monitor end caps and put the PA50 used for a monitor on a stand and point it toward my ear, at ear level. Somebody gave me the advice, "hey your ears are on the side not on your face or in you nose" . Works great like that. Just did a storefront street gig with 2 PA50s tonight, what a bang for the buck!

The portability factor is another plus :D

Ukuleleblues
08-21-2014, 05:13 PM
The portability factor is another plus :DWhen there is a chance of rain I like them cause I can throw a garbage bag over them an protect them easily and quickly. On the stand there is no ground splash.

brUKEman
08-21-2014, 06:10 PM
Let me see if I have this right. I'm gonna have the Sync out on my 1st PA50 going to the Sync in on my Second PA50.
The Sync out on the Second PA50 will go to the XLR connector on my AC33. This will enable me to use the AC33 as a monitor. Thank you all again, the knowledge on this form & the generosity of sharing this knowledge is amazing.

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 06:48 PM
Yes, that is correxct!

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 06:51 PM
The SYNC Out of the first or second PA will work. All of these XLR jacks work both as inputs and outputs. Ric

ricdoug
08-21-2014, 07:21 PM
Well, just got back from my first gig using 2 PA50's. I Daisy chained the 2 units and ran 3 mics/2ukes into it. I just placed the units on small tables as I have not gotten the Speaker Stands yet. I am not a technical person but I just connected the cables, turned it on and it worked beautifully. I turned up the channel volume 1/2 way and controlled the volume with the master. My only issue was that I had one mic/XLR connecter and a 1/4" jack connected on the same channel so that I couldn't use separate volumes on each as I did not have an volume control on the uke. Also the speakers were facing the crowd so we couldn't hear them very well. I was amazed at the sound. I loved them so much that I am now going to order a 3rd PA50 to use as a monitor facing the band. It was a large open room in a nursing home with about 50 people in attendance. I didn't even have to break out my Roland AC33 which is what I was using before I received the two speakers. If anyone is hesitant in getting these speakers, I would say go for them..

Use a Behringer ADI21 to control your 'ukulele brUKEman:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ADI21.aspx