I have the staff of notes, but what are the CHORDS?

UkeStuff

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Don't pay attention to any tempo marking that is there...I should have deleted that (it appears by default). And again, any chord can be replaced by any other.

I'll have to look at House of the Rising Sun, but for now I'd suggest that you follow the advice of ubulele.
 

zztush

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Thank you very much, Choirguy. You don't need to look at House of Rising Sun. I just wanted to know why I hear C major song minor. I think I have to hear more music to improve my ear.

Thank you very much Jack for this nice thread.
 

JackLuis

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So If I play this on my Baritone I can just drone the D, and pick the notes as written? The Tabs Choirguy included won't work on a baritone, but hey they would work on my concerts or soprano. I might even use a pick to pick it! Or pluck the D and the other notes with a two finger pinch.

Wow! there are a lot of ways to play this and each of them exercises different styles or techniques!
 

Jim Yates

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There are at least (probably a lot more) two different tunes and sets of changes for Rising Sun.

These are the chords (possibly in a different key) that Dave Van Ronk made up for House Of The Rising Sun, also used by Bob Dylan (who learned it from Van Ronk) and The Animals (who learned it from Dylan's recording).

There (Am) is a (C) house in (D) New Or(F)leans
They (Am) call the (C) Rising (E) Sun (E7)
And it's (Am) been the (C) ruin of (D) many a poor (F) girl
And (Am) me, oh (E) God, I'm (Am) one. (E7)

These are the chords used (possibly in a different key) by folks like Josh White, Joan Baez, Woody Guthrie, Ramblin' Jack Elliott...

There (Am) is a (C) house in (E) New Or(Am)leans
They call the (C) Rising (E) Sun (E7)
And it's (Am) been the (C) ruin of (E) many a poor (Am) girl
And (Am) me, oh (E) God, I'm (Am) one. (E7)

Most folks sang it from the point of view of a woman trapped in a life of prostitution. Eric Burden changed it to a man trapped in a life of paying for sex.
 
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zztush

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Hi, Bill!

Thanks for this thread. I was reading more about the Dorian mode last night, nothing authoritative, just posts from guitar player and jazz musicians.

I think the best way to understand mode is this way.

Key Change
Play C major scale on Ukulele C D E F G A B C
Play D major scale D E F# G A B C# D
Then you can see the key change

mode Change of C major
Play C ionian C D E F G A B
Play D Dorian D E F G A B C
Play E Phrygian       E F G A B C D and so on (There are 7 modes)
Then you understand no key changed on your uke.

What makes the difference, Bill?
 

zztush

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OH! Please wait, Bill!

Please fell the difference between key and mode by yourself on your uke in the way I ' ve shown above. Interval bring us key. Our brain counts interval and fell tonal center of the key. Interval bring us the difference between major and minor. Hence 12 tone music has no key. Interval is great!
 

UkeStuff

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There are at least (probably a lot more) two different tunes and sets of changes for Rising Sun.

These are the chords (possibly in a different key) that Dave Van Ronk made up for House Of The Rising Sun, also used by Bob Dylan (who learned it from Van Ronk) and The Animals (who learned it from Dylan's recording).

There (Am) is a (C) house in (D) New Or(F)leans
They (Am) call the (C) Rising (E) Sun (E7)
And it's (Am) been the (C) ruin of (D) many a poor (F) girl
And (Am) me, oh (E) God, I'm (Am) one. (E7)

These are the chords used (possibly in a different key) by folks like Josh White, Joan Baez, Woody Guthrie, Ramblin' Jack Elliott...

There (Am) is a (C) house in (E) New Or(Am)leans
They call the (C) Rising (E) Sun (E7)
And it's (Am) been the (C) ruin of (E) many a poor (Am) girl
And (Am) me, oh (E) God, I'm (Am) one. (E7)

Most folks sang it from the point of view of a woman trapped in a life of prostitution. Eric Burden changed it to a man trapped in a life of paying for sex.


By showing the chord structure above, it seems that either version of House of the Rising Sun functions in Am. Why? In a major and (harmonic) minor key, there is a relationship where the 5th chord of the scale, when played with a 4th note on top, becomes a Dominant 7th (In this song, E7). The Dominant 7th pulls strongly back to the root chord in the key...which is, in this case, Am.

This is a key aspect of harmonic function in major and minor keys. In general, the modes (which likely go back to the Greeks, but were certainly a part of non-harmonized early church music) do not stretch into the use of V7 to I movement (and the minor key borrows a note from its major sibling to make it happen).

The ending E7 is what you do when you want to leave your audience hanging. The Dominant 7th desperately want to go to its home (the 3rd note and 7th note of the chord want to collapse down, making the 1st and 3rd notes of the home [tonic] chord. If you don't collapse it, people feel unsettled.

The final thing I would say about the Dorian mode (2 to 2, or Re to Re) is that (after learning about it in college) I have never thought of it as a minor mode. I have always just learned about it as being the Dorian mode with its own characteristics. I can see how people say it sounds minor--but "minor" means a different thing. The most famous Dorian tunes are Scarborough Fair and Greensleeves...and lots of people can't perform Greensleeves without making it a minor song!
 

UkeStuff

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OH! Please wait, Bill!

Please fell the difference between key and mode by yourself on your uke in the way I ' ve shown above. Interval bring us key. Our brain counts interval and fell tonal center of the key. Interval bring us the difference between major and minor. Hence 12 tone music has no key. Interval is great!

This goes far beyond my expertise as a musician and educator. I don't think that most of us process either interval or tonal center. Our friends with perfect pitch do (I have known 4 people with perfect pitch in my life). But the rest of us recognize relative relationships with chords. If you live in the United States, from the day you are born, you are surrounded by music. The majority of that music (99%) is in the major or minor mode, regardless of genre of music or even the age of the music.

Just as children can grow up speaking a language without knowing how to read or write it (and we call them illiterate and put them into special classes to help them), the majority of citizens of the United States (and likely the world) grow up understanding major and minor harmonic function--and many can sing and play along, without being able to read or write music or understand why harmony functions as it does (Incidentally, we do not label these people as illiterate and do not place them into special classes to learn those skills). I know many musicians that are not able to read or transcribe music. Recording can now be done digitally--which helps. None of those musicians are proud of their illiteracy in music.

All that goes back to say that we understand major and minor, and we don't know why.
 

zztush

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The final thing I would say about the Dorian mode (2 to 2, or Re to Re) is that (after learning about it in college) I have never thought of it as a minor mode.

Why do you think it Dorian? Is that C major?
 

zztush

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I don't think that most of us process either interval or tonal center.

Just play the notes as I have shown above (#33) on your uke.
You can see the interval and tonal center.
And you can understand that mode doesn't change key.
 

UkeStuff

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Just play the notes as I have shown above (#33) on your uke.
You can see the interval and tonal center.
And you can understand that mode doesn't change key.

Well, mode does change with key...or the root key. B Dorian, for example, would be based on the key of A Major.

Dorian in and of itself is starting with step 2 of any major scale, staying in that same scale, and treating the second step as home/Tonic.
 

zztush

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Well, mode does change with key...or the root key. B Dorian, for example, would be based on the key of A Major.

Dorian in and of itself is starting with step 2 of any major scale, staying in that same scale, and treating the second step as home/Tonic.

You change key to A major.

Key of A
A ionian
B dorian
C phyrigian.......

They are all key of A. Even you change mode, they are key of A
 

JackLuis

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Now that my head hurts from this discussion.:eek: I have to say that this was surprising that a simple (to me) question brought out all these different concepts and perspectives on music structure. I tried starting in Dm-Am-E7 and it doesn't sound right to me. Is it because I'm playing first position chords, or am I completely confused? Am-Dm-E7 sounds better to me, am I playing it wrong because the first time I heard it it was played wrong?

As an aside the song starts in D and moves to A, which is higher in pitch, but the first position chords Dm-Am seem to me to be a lowering in pitch, should the Am be played higher (2nd/3rd position) on the neck to get the right shift?
 

UkeStuff

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Now that my head hurts from this discussion.:eek: I have to say that this was surprising that a simple (to me) question brought out all these different concepts and perspectives on music structure. I tried starting in Dm-Am-E7 and it doesn't sound right to me. Is it because I'm playing first position chords, or am I completely confused? Am-Dm-E7 sounds better to me, am I playing it wrong because the first time I heard it it was played wrong?

As an aside the song starts in D and moves to A, which is higher in pitch, but the first position chords Dm-Am seem to me to be a lowering in pitch, should the Am be played higher (2nd/3rd position) on the neck to get the right shift?

Which song are we talking about now?
 

zztush

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Now that my head hurts from this discussion.:eek: I have to say that this was surprising that a simple (to me) question brought out all these different concepts and perspectives on music structure.

No. It is very simple.
Just needed to check the key signature. We found it C/Am. Just needed to hear the song. It was minor. Key was Am. No needed to think mode, when we find key. Simple.
 

JackLuis

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No. It is very simple.
Just needed to check the key signature. We found it C/Am. Just needed to hear the song. It was minor. Key was Am. No needed to think mode, when we find key. Simple.

I was talking about "I can See Your Aura', the subject of the thread.

I play "House Of the Rising Sun" in Am though I have it in D as well but I've always played it in Am -C-D-F- ect.
 

zztush

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I was talking about "I can See Your Aura', the subject of the thread.

I play "House Of the Rising Sun" in Am though I have it in D as well but I've always played it in Am -C-D-F- ect.

Yes, Key is Am. not C.
 

buddhuu

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ubulele,

Please calm down. Also, please refer to the forum rules and, in particular, the "Golden Rule".

Thanks.
 

buddhuu

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You're crossing a line and making it personal. The tone of your response to zztush was the problem.

Knock it off.