Is Loud Better ?

[gustophersmob]

I think its like everything in the musical world: subjective.

Is loud better? Not if you're after something quiet. I have played some loud instruments that just sounded harsh and rough (primarily acoustic guitars), so sometimes loud is a definite detriment.

Most modern instruments are based on historic patterns that were arrived at for a reason, a great many of those were the pursuit of volume. In the guitar world, steel strings, 16" dreadnought flat-tops, and 18" archtops were all borne from a desire to be heard in ensembles prior to the mass amplification/electrification of stringed instruments. The birth of electric instruments was also from the chase for volume. I also wonder if this is why many instruments during this "golden era" (usually the 20's-40's) were built so lightly: to make it louder?

Today, natural instrument volume is more easily sacrificed in a group setting because we have a wide variety of options for electrification and amplification.

If we're strictly talking an acoustic instrument with no added amplification, then it's volume is basically down to a couple of things: air chamber size, build (light or heavy, particularly the top and its bracing), and string length/gauge. For a ukulele, you can tinker on the margins of string length and gauge and body size (air chamber), but these things are largely "set" at this point. So to get the maximum loudness out of say, a soprano uke, you're looking at how its built. A thin top with light flexible braces that are tap-tuned will be louder than something with a 1/4" thick top braced with 1"x1" 's. But of course there's a trade off, the more lightly built, the more likely the instrument will self-destruct. So I think every maker is basically trying to balance the trade between volume, tone and structural stability within whatever price point they're targeting.

Speaking of tone, I also don't know that tone is necessarily connected with volume. I have a Bushman soprano that's on the quiet side compared to two other identical ones, but it sounds very nice. And even though all three are the same in terms of specs and build quality, they all sound different (not radically so, but if you A/B them you can tell). I've played many different types of instruments that run the gamut from quiet tot loud within their respective class and some have sounded good and some sounded bad at all points along the volume spectrum. And tone is very subjective. At least volume can be quantified.

I typed all that out, read it over, and don't know that I actually had a point to make, but I'll post it anyway as I hate to see all that effort wasted 😛

 

[gustophersmob]

“What’s the BEST pickup available to run into a banjo?”

“A Ford F-150…”

I used to have a few jokes about banjo players constantly tuning their banjo... until i started playing uke

 

[Bill Sheehan]

Yes, I find it easier to play a loud ukulele quietly than to play a quiet ukulele loudly.

Well-said, KK !!

 

[Charles Guy]

Interesting thread which comes after a recent comparison I sent to another UU member. Here is a dropbox link to a video I did with my two ukes and similar string configurations of two wound and two flurocarbons. Admittedly I am very much learning at an early stage and apologize for my hacking along. Can you tell if one is louder or quieter or better sounding than the other? Does this help the thread?

Kala KA B vs Pono MB

I have other videos of them with identical string sets in which my playing is atrocious but similar sound differences. If someone wants loud then just use a felt pick, I tried one and its like turning on an amplifier.

My apologies for mess in background, trying to downsize and stuff is everywhere in this room.

 

[merlin666]

The main contributor to a loud or quiet sound is the player, if you don't know how to play loud then the loudest uke won't help much and a quiet uke won't hold back a player with skill. As for uke characteristics while thickness of wood and bracing are important for vibrations, there is also an important role for body characteristics such as depth, back arching, as well as soundhole size and placement.

I also go to bluegrass jams, and I am pretty sure that my re-entrant KoAloha and six string Kamaka can be heard well. And when I bring an Ovation guitar I even have to hold back to be able to hear the other players.

 

[DuckyI]

My loudest ukulele is a mahogany Timms. It is unbelievably loud. But I prefer the tone of my Kiwaya and my Tkitki - they have a sweeter sound, and more even dynamics all along the fretboard. The only thing to compete with volume-wise is my voice, so I end up playing the Japanese ukes much more often.

 

[Tom51251]

“What’s the BEST pickup available to run into a banjo?”

“A Ford F-150…”

I disagree. The BEST pickup available is a Dodge Ram!

 

[70sSanO]

A good sounding ukulele that is louder is always better.

Likewise, a bad sounding ukulele that is quieter is also better.

John

 

[Wiggy]

Interesting thread which comes after a recent comparison I sent to another UU member. Here is a dropbox link to a video I did with my two ukes and similar string configurations of two wound and two flurocarbons. Admittedly I am very much learning at an early stage and apologize for my hacking along. Can you tell if one is louder or quieter or better sounding than the other? Does this help the thread?

I actually liked the Kala better. The notes and chords seemed more "clear" to me.

 

[Neil_O]

I've seen people write, 'my uke sounds like a cannon'. I think those ukes are probably too loud.

 

[KohanMike]

I look for projection and sustain in my ukes. A year after starting to play uke in mid 2013, I called Mim to recommend a better uke than the 16 or so $150 laminate ones I went through in that year that I wanted to trade in. I asked for a tenor, cutaway, electronics that had good projection and sustain and not too expensive. She said the Kala solid cedar top, acacia koa body for $379, but doesn't take trade-ins, so I went to McCabe's in Santa Monica because they had one. They also had Kamaka and Kanile`a, so I played them all and found that the Kala held it's own against the $1200 ones. Not having very much disposable income, I bought the Kala, trading in three of my others.

For the next 8 years the Kala was my go to gig uke, until a couple months ago when I found with nerve damage to my neck from radiation treatments years ago, that it was more comfortable to play my thinline ukes. I ordered a custom from my luthier I've used often, Bruce Wei Arts in Vietnam, for $885 including express shipping, but when I go it, it did not have as much projection and sustain as I like. A couple days later, to my surprise, it opened up and sounded much better.

 

[Eggs_n_Ham]

From Pono Ukulele website F. A . Q . :

Q - Why are some guitars and ‘ukuleles louder than others? Are they better?

A - Is Loud Better. Lately we see slogans reading “bigger is better.” In the stringed instrument world that equates to ……. “louder is better.” But is this true? Is louder better? In other words, some believe that a guitar or ‘ukulele with more volume and loud projection is higher quality.

First, how is increased volume (loudness) increased? Partially by the type of woods, in particular, woods used for the top soundboard. But it’s important to note that it’s also determined by the thickness of body woods, including internal bracing.

Let’s first clarify that all of this information pertains to solid woods, not laminates or plywood. Laminated wood (sometimes nicknamed “layered wood”) can be extremely thin. They are criss crossed layers of wood, glued together, which becomes a very sturdy piece of plywood, and less prone to cracking. But laminated woods are solidified, or you might say, cast in cement (glue), and thus not able to age. There is no aged flexibility. The instrument can be loud, but will lack tone. This is described below.

Solid woods are good, and can be cut very thin, and thus will vibrate more. And then produce a loud and projecting tone. But is this better? Is this really what we are trying to achieve in an acoustic instrument?

For some there is a misconception that this increased volume, though impressive, is higher quality. They will tell you “my guitar or ‘ukulele seems to jump out … it’s loud.”
But is loud better? Or do we want “tone.”

Why do some guitar and ‘ukulele manufacturers construct a heavier instrument, with thicker woods? Especially since it seems that the overall volume and projection is less. Is there are reason? Are there other beneficial qualities to a more robustly built instrument? Yes.

Research and studies have proven that an instrument constructed with slightly thicker woods produces a warmer, full, and rounded tone. And sustain is improved, which is the ability to allow notes to continue to ring. This is due to more wood mass, and thus enables it to “sustain” tone longer and deeper. Even the thickness of the neck can greatly affect sustain.

Another benefit of thicker woods is durability. A strongly built guitar or ‘ukulele is made to last and can withstand abuse and the elements of nature. Of course the finish coating will still be vulnerable to damage, but the wood underneath is rigid and tough.

And another factor to consider is the integrity of the wood. In other words, its strength and ability to retain its shape through time, both flat pieces and contours. Thus the instrument is less likely to warp under adverse climate conditions.

A guitar or ‘ukulele made correctly will last for many generations, it will be built to last, so to speak.

In summary, a stringed instrument can be impressively “loud” ….. but this is not necessarily better. In the short term, a thinly built guitar or ‘ukulele can have great volume, and some prefer this, but louder is not necessarily better, nor an indicator of a high quality instrument.

My solid Millar cedar/rosewood concert is quiet and seems "heavy" for a concert. My Anuenue uc10 is laminate- loud bright and chimey.

 

[UkingViking]

If you play ukulele and sing, your ukulele should be loud enough to balance with your voice. Many notes I cannot hit if I try to sing quietly. Vocals sound the best at that volume that transmit the feelings you put into the song.
So it is a success criteria for it to be loud enough that you can hear it mix with your voice.

Yeah, you can talk about amplification. But when you practice at home you dont want to mess with that. And you need to hear how it blend. It also helps with hitting the right notes, that you can hear the uke properly.

I absolutely love the sound of my MyaMoe super soprano, but when picked it is a bit too quiet for many songs. Strumming helps.

 

[Charles Guy]

I actually liked the Kala better. The notes and chords seemed more "clear" to me.

Might be my playing, might be strings, appreciate the feedback.

 

[rainbow21]

First to comment on the Pono position: Guitars are big and loud... they are loud because they are big compared to an ukulele. So if you played acoustic, especially by oneself as I do on my ukulele, the volume should be a nonissue. So building for strength does not create the same issue that it does on an ukulele, and the argument is unconvincing. I prefer good volume in a lighter ukulele.

My second ukulele was a KoAloha pikake concert. I loved both the tone and the volume. So I decided I wanted to get a soprano scale and went with a Pono mahogany from TUS. It did not last five minutes in my hand. My uneducated hands and ears wondered what the heck was going on with its soft volume and lack of high end brightness. Disappointment (and returned) but I acquired a used pikake soprano and knew the scale size was not the issue I had with the Pono.

The choice I would (and have made) is to have a good sounding ukulele that has reasonable volume. Bad sounding is not a keeper, no matter the volume. And good sounding, but quiet is deficient to me. The best costs more, but there are numerous alternatives that are repeatedly mentioned on the forum at all the price points.

 

[Stoneyrun]

Most of my friends play acoustic guitars. When we play together I can't hear myself play my tenor without an amp.

 

[merlin666]

Most of my friends play acoustic guitars. When we play together I can't hear myself play my tenor without an amp.

Tenor particularly with low G is more suitable for individual performance as it lacks the punch of highest frequencies. Try with a quality soprano and chances are it will punch though nicely. Violins and mandolins can be heard well for solos not because they are loud but because they are high.

 

[Stoneyrun]

Tenor particularly with low G is more suitable for individual performance as it lacks the punch of highest frequencies. Try with a quality soprano and chances are it will punch though nicely. Violins and mandolins can be heard well for solos not because they are loud but because they are high.

Well, there's that one feller who plays the banjo. No violins or mandolins so far. I tried playing Soprano. Felt too squished. I have a solid body electric concert low g that I usually take to jam these days. The higher pitched frequencies do come through when they have room to breath. That's a good point.

 

[Joe Strummer]

Is loud better?

YES!

 

[Joe Strummer]

That was the short answer. The long answer is that that the louder instruments I have played are more responsive. It takes less effort to get the note to sing. You can play soft and still get a nice tone.

I had a Pono AT that I kept trying to like. I had to really dig into the strings to get a decent tone, but it always felt like I was fighting with it.