Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - that ain't no Bb

TimWilson

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So Aldrine did a fantastic tutorial for Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds back in 2017. I was thinking about naming this thread Aldrine In The Sky With Diamonds, or Lucy In The Sky with Aldrine, but since I actually need help, I thought I'd play it a little straighter.

This really is a terrific tutorial, with only one hard part: a pulloff in the fourth measure of the intro that I'm still not consistently hitting, but I know it'll come with practice. Aldrine really does nail this. Here's the playalong (rather than the full tutorial that I linked to above):


Here's the thing that's really bugging me: there's a line that shows up twice in the prechoruses, and it's got a very distinctive slippy, slide-y movement at the end. The first time, it's "Towering over your head". You already sang it, right? You can't stop yourself. The "hea-aaaa-add" is practically three syllables, and definitely three notes. Then the second time through, "Waiting to take you away", and same deal. "Awaaa-aaaa-aaay" has three syllables, three notes.

The notation for that whole line is F to Bb....and I'm tellin' ya, even if that's what the Bug Boys wrote down, that ain't what's happening. There's no movement in that line, and I need the movement. There needs to be something after the Bb, and honestly, something probably needs to come between the F and the Bb.

It's not just Aldrine, either. This is pretty much what I see almost everywhere (Ultimate Guitar, Ozbcoz, Chordify, etc.) Every now and again, a sliiiiight variation, like Stewart Greenhill's F7 to Bb6, but still missing the movement.

I sometimes find that guitar or piano tutorials can fill in the gaps, and I thought I got a hair closer with a piano arrangement that goes

1669753611224.png

...until I realized that the most common first-position F/A for ukulele is played as a regular F (the A being supplied by the open A string), and still no movement underneath the three-syllable "head". So no help at all.

I do understand that the voice is what's doing most of the work here, and maybe I shouldn't sweat it. But I do! It's keeping me awake at night! While I do sing most of the time, I don't sing all the time (much to the relief of everyone in the vicinity), and I'd like to find a way to get closer to the mark here. I'm certainly open to any insights from the fingerstyle crowd, who I find are in general more inclined to go for accuracy over ease. (I'm all high G if that matters, which for this song mostly doesn't seem to.)

Anyway, fingerstyle or strummed, I'd sure to love to hear how any of you folks are doing these lines. The previous threads I found here were mostly people looking for tabs at all, long before Aldrine posted his in 2017, and none of them have helped me get any closer. Can you?
 

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Oldscruggsfan

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I agree that something seems missing, Tim. In light of the unsophisticated newbie source (myself), this is a hugely uneducated hunch, but might it just be the same A7 transition (from Am7/C6 to Bb in that case, but from F to Bb in this one) as in the beginning of Loudon Wainwright's "The Ukulele Song"? [I mention this partly b/c when I tracked down the chord progression for TUS, it showed neither the open (unfretted) notes of C6/Am7 nor the quick A7 leading in to the Bb of 'Got a ukulele. . . '.]
 
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Patty

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So Aldrine did a fantastic tutorial for Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds back in 2017. I was thinking about naming this thread Aldrine In The Sky With Diamonds, or Lucy In The Sky with Aldrine, but since I actually need help, I thought I'd play it a little straighter.

This really is a terrific tutorial, with only one hard part: a pulloff in the fourth measure of the intro that I'm still not consistently hitting, but I know it'll come with practice. Aldrine really does nail this. Here's the playalong (rather than the full tutorial that I linked to above):


Here's the thing that's really bugging me: there's a line that shows up twice in the prechoruses, and it's got a very distinctive slippy, slide-y movement at the end. The first time, it's "Towering over your head". You already sang it, right? You can't stop yourself. The "hea-aaaa-add" is practically three syllables, and definitely three notes. Then the second time through, "Waiting to take you away", and same deal. "Awaaa-aaaa-aaay" has three syllables, three notes.

The notation for that whole line is F to Bb....and I'm tellin' ya, even if that's what the Bug Boys wrote down, that ain't what's happening. There's no movement in that line, and I need the movement. There needs to be something after the Bb, and honestly, something probably needs to come between the F and the Bb.

It's not just Aldrine, either. This is pretty much what I see almost everywhere (Ultimate Guitar, Ozbcoz, Chordify, etc.) Every now and again, a sliiiiight variation, like Stewart Greenhill's F7 to Bb6, but still missing the movement.

I sometimes find that guitar or piano tutorials can fill in the gaps, and I thought I got a hair closer with a piano arrangement that goes

View attachment 145648

...until I realized that the most common first-position F/A for ukulele is played as a regular F (the A being supplied by the open A string), and still no movement underneath the three-syllable "head". So no help at all.

I do understand that the voice is what's doing most of the work here, and maybe I shouldn't sweat it. But I do! It's keeping me awake at night! While I do sing most of the time, I don't sing all the time (much to the relief of everyone in the vicinity), and I'd like to find a way to get closer to the mark here. I'm certainly open to any insights from the fingerstyle crowd, who I find are in general more inclined to go for accuracy over ease. (I'm all high G if that matters, which for this song mostly doesn't seem to.)

Anyway, fingerstyle or strummed, I'd sure to love to hear how any of you folks are doing these lines. The previous threads I found here were mostly people looking for tabs at all, long before Aldrine posted his in 2017, and none of them have helped me get any closer. Can you?
This problem is … over my head.
 

Wiggy

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I wish you had narrowed down the clip where your problem is, or gave us a "second" marker where it occurs.

..like listening to a haystack for a cricket.

<edit > OK, I hear (@1:45) the step in his tone the 2nd time between F and Bb... sounds like he sings D C Bb.
 
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TimWilson

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I wish you had narrowed down the clip where your problem is, or gave us a "second" marker where it occurs.

..like listening to a haystack for a cricket.

Ah, sorry, I just assumed that everyone knows this song like the back of their hand. Definitely a mark of obsession to forget just how very obsessed I am. 🤣 You're right, of course. The first section starts at 44 second into the tutorial video (ie, the one you can see in my first post).

That's the one to focus on, because he sings the slide the same way Lennon did, whereas the second time this musical line occurs ("take you away") at 1:45, he sings straight, so the gap between the vocal line and the musical line isn't as pronounced. If you compare to the original recording, you can really hear how differently Aldrine does it than John.

And yes, I could do what Aldrine did to mask how far short that single line falls in an otherwise terrific arrangement, but I'd rather not. 😁 Singing the way John sang it, hitting most of the notes, feels mostly in reach...assuming I can get y'all's help finding the missing chords!

Thanks again!
 
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Arcy

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F -> F/A -> B♭ is tricky on a solo uke, especially high-G. We don't have enough bass strings to find all of the inversions playably. A high-G uke doesn't have an A on the low string until the 9th fret. Low-G has F/A for the standard first position "F". For both you can get a root position chord with the F on the 3rd string 5th fret (drop the 4th string in Low-G), but that's a pretty large jump and probably won't make the smooth transition sound you're looking for.

That said, if you're just listening to the vocal line, it sounds like "towering over your he" is all the same note, then sliding down for "ad". The movement is all in the bass-line, and there's not a lot of it - "towering" is all on one note, the all up a bit for "over your", then a walk up for "head". Ukes (especially high-g) are not bass instruments, and you won't be able to replicate Paul's line. If you want to get creative you can do something interesting with it at a higher octave, or pull in another instrument. Aldrene just simplifies the backing and lets the vocal slide.
 
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TimWilson

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Ukes (especially high-g) are not bass instruments, and you won't be able to replicate Paul's line.

That's definitely true, especially for the bass walkdown AFTER this line....but that's why I didn't ask for THOSE notes....although now that I think about it, those might sound dynamite an octave or two up as an embellishment, one of Jake's favorite tricks in WMGGW.

That said, the note or two in this question isn't much lower. My guess is that I'm looking for no more than a finger or two difference between either the F and the mystery chord, or the mystery chord into Bb. Or maybe it's just three variations of F in a row? @Oldscruggsfan suggested F7, and that might indeed be part of the answer.

My point being that the more I poke at this, the more I'm thinking that the answer is in some combination of augmentation, suspension, 7 or something along those lines. Paul did something similar on the F to Fm transition in When I'm 64, George did G to G+ on Handle With Care, etc. This is a super organic movement, very slight but very specific, and I'm still learning my way around all these variations. I like 'em a lot, and want to find ways to add more of them to more of what I play, but I'm not at the point of being able to say, "Ah yes, lad, you're looking for an eff sharp add two" or whatever.

The perfect time to add Patty's reply:
This problem is … over my head.
:ROFLMAO:

I do think that I can rule out any "natural" chords for now...maybe? This is where I'm thinking now, anyway.

Thanks again!
 

Oldscruggsfan

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That's definitely true, especially for the bass walkdown AFTER this line....but that's why I didn't ask for THOSE notes....although now that I think about it, those might sound dynamite an octave or two up as an embellishment, one of Jake's favorite tricks in WMGGW.

That said, the note or two in this question isn't much lower. My guess is that I'm looking for no more than a finger or two difference between either the F and the mystery chord, or the mystery chord into Bb. Or maybe it's just three variations of F in a row? @Oldscruggsfan suggested F7, and that might indeed be part of the answer.

My point being that the more I poke at this, the more I'm thinking that the answer is in some combination of augmentation, suspension, 7 or something along those lines. Paul did something similar on the F to Fm transition in When I'm 64, George did G to G+ on Handle With Care, etc. This is a super organic movement, very slight but very specific, and I'm still learning my way around all these variations. I like 'em a lot, and want to find ways to add more of them to more of what I play, but I'm not at the point of being able to say, "Ah yes, lad, you're looking for an eff sharp add two" or whatever.

The perfect time to add Patty's reply:

:ROFLMAO:

I do think that I can rule out any "natural" chords for now...maybe? This is where I'm thinking now, anyway.

Thanks again!
To clarify, I’m not so much thinking a full F7 or A7 chord, but just the C# note on the C string at the 1st fret and/ or the Eb on the same string at the 3rd fret.
 

Wiggy

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... That's the one to focus on, because he sings the slide the same way Lennon did, whereas the second time this musical line occurs ("take you away") at 1:45, he sings straight, so the gap between the vocal line and the musical line isn't as pronounced. If you compare to the original recording, you can really hear how differently Aldrine does it than John...
Me?
Play an F then add a D to it somewhere.
If I'm hearing it right, the D follows the voice (D-C-Bb) and will get (slide) you between the F and Bb chords.

("No, that ain't it" is an OK response.)

Warning! TMI:

I know you have only 4 strings, but IMO it must have a D):

C9sus4
Notes: C F G Bb D

Gm11
Notes: G Bb D F C

A#6/9
A sharp sixth ninth
Notes: A#(Bb) D F G C

A#9
Notes: A#(Bb) D F Ab C
 
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TimWilson

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To clarify, I’m not so much thinking a full F7 or A7 chord, but just the C# note on the C string at the 1st fret and/ or the Eb on the same string at the 3rd fret.

I'm not able to check it out yet, but yes, this is exactly what I'm thinking. No more than a finger or two.


Me?
Play an F then add a D to it somewhere.
If I'm hearing it right, the D follows the voice (D-C-Bb)

Getting warmer! There's a LOT of D and D minor in this song, always right next to each other in the verses. Same thing with A to Am7, and a couple F#m to Dm. This song is packed with one-finger moves, so I think we're on the right track!

Okay, will start trying these! Thanks so much!
 

Wiggy

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Getting warmer! There's a LOT of D and D minor in this song, always right next to each other in the verses. Same thing with A to Am7, and a couple F#m to Dm. This song is packed with one-finger moves, so I think we're on the right track!
How did it work out?
 

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TimWilson

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How did it work out?

In Search of a Lost Chord is GENIUS!!! Thanks for that, and thanks for asking!

I'm still not 100% satisfied with my solution, but I've definitely learned that it has nothing to do with high or low G. The answer is somewhere in the first three frets.

My current favorite takes your "D" suggestion into account -- D6 (aka Bm7) is a bar across the second fret, then slide down to open up the G string, and that bar on the three strings closest to the floor is a Gmaj7, retaining that D on the C string. So, more succinctly: "hea---ead"= D6-->Gmaj7. Also sounds dynamite leading into the C chord that follows.

Another I kinda like, if not quite as much, is F7 (first position F plus a D# note on C via the third fret) to Dm (back to D on the C string), so still with a D. :)

There's another variation of B that I liked where the two syllables were an arpeggiated downstroke followed by an upstroke of the same chord, but it sounded quite a bit more different than usual. I liked it, but I didn't write it down, so now it really IS a lost chord. :ROFLMAO:

I've got a couple of other combos that I tried along the way, and if I return to them, or if I find that missing B variant, I'll let you know.

One thing holding me back from exploring this any farther any faster is that I'm having a whale of a time with the fourth measure of the intro, the last set of picked notes. You can see Aldrine's demo of the move starting at 12:27 at this link (there are two videos on this page -- it's the one on the top. It was posted on Vimeo, so no direct links to the timecode.) You start with fingers 1-2-3 on the fifth fret of CEA, pluck the C string, then move the index finger to the 4th fret A string (so now you have pinky on A4, ring on A5, middle on E5), then pull off that index finger.

Maybe it's because I have a radiused fretboard, and it often feels like I'm already mostly off the fretboard, but after a few weeks of this, I'm still only getting any sound at all maybe a third of the time. I'm not as acrobatic as Aldrine, but I'm not quite ready to bail on it.

Still, if any you have any suggestions for how to pick that intro, I'll take 'em!

Thanks again!

Edit: okay, I bailed on how Aldrine does it. :ROFLMAO: I hit the C string holding the 5th fret with my index finger (F note), then drop the index finger to the 5th fret A string (D), pluck that and SLIDE to the 4th fret (C#), then flip the middle finger back up to the 5th fret of the E string (to make an A), ready to drop the index finger and pinky on to the 4th fret of C and 7th of A to make the version of A7 that sets up the first round of picking.

I get what Aldrine is trying to do. The point isn't just to hit the notes. It's to put them all in a cluster so that, if you're inclined to, you can play that sequence in a loop through the first verse, or indeed for all the verses, then switch to strumming for the choruses. I'm not quiiiiite up to singing over this yet, so I just play it a couple of times for the intro and move on, but I'm definitely aiming for being able to play it at least for the first verse....
 
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UkeSlacker

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So Aldrine did a fantastic tutorial for Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds back in 2017. I was thinking about naming this thread Aldrine In The Sky With Diamonds, or Lucy In The Sky with Aldrine, but since I actually need help, I thought I'd play it a little straighter.

This really is a terrific tutorial, with only one hard part: a pulloff in the fourth measure of the intro that I'm still not consistently hitting, but I know it'll come with practice. Aldrine really does nail this. Here's the playalong (rather than the full tutorial that I linked to above):


Here's the thing that's really bugging me: there's a line that shows up twice in the prechoruses, and it's got a very distinctive slippy, slide-y movement at the end. The first time, it's "Towering over your head". You already sang it, right? You can't stop yourself. The "hea-aaaa-add" is practically three syllables, and definitely three notes. Then the second time through, "Waiting to take you away", and same deal. "Awaaa-aaaa-aaay" has three syllables, three notes.

The notation for that whole line is F to Bb....and I'm tellin' ya, even if that's what the Bug Boys wrote down, that ain't what's happening. There's no movement in that line, and I need the movement. There needs to be something after the Bb, and honestly, something probably needs to come between the F and the Bb.

It's not just Aldrine, either. This is pretty much what I see almost everywhere (Ultimate Guitar, Ozbcoz, Chordify, etc.) Every now and again, a sliiiiight variation, like Stewart Greenhill's F7 to Bb6, but still missing the movement.

I sometimes find that guitar or piano tutorials can fill in the gaps, and I thought I got a hair closer with a piano arrangement that goes

View attachment 145648

...until I realized that the most common first-position F/A for ukulele is played as a regular F (the A being supplied by the open A string), and still no movement underneath the three-syllable "head". So no help at all.

I do understand that the voice is what's doing most of the work here, and maybe I shouldn't sweat it. But I do! It's keeping me awake at night! While I do sing most of the time, I don't sing all the time (much to the relief of everyone in the vicinity), and I'd like to find a way to get closer to the mark here. I'm certainly open to any insights from the fingerstyle crowd, who I find are in general more inclined to go for accuracy over ease. (I'm all high G if that matters, which for this song mostly doesn't seem to.)

Anyway, fingerstyle or strummed, I'd sure to love to hear how any of you folks are doing these lines. The previous threads I found here were mostly people looking for tabs at all, long before Aldrine posted his in 2017, and none of them have helped me get any closer. Can you?
the Beatles used the pentatonic scale, half steps etc, in music all the time in their melodies.

the Bb cited is not a straight major chord, it’s a guideline to help you.

Maybe try gm? Then move a half step down on the second string? Your welcome
 
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TimWilson

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the Bb cited is not a straight major chord, it’s a guideline to help you.

It has something to do with literal truth and the necessity of approximation when it comes to translation, I think. The first Bb in this prechorus is dead on the money. Change it, and you miss the mark. That may be what you want to do, in which case, go right ahead, but it's a Bb. The second Bb is exactly what's written in the official sheet music (to the extent that such a thing exists), but there's a lot of other stuff going on, and to translate to a solo uke, you have to translate the entirety of the sound, where not every instrument is playing Bb.

Maybe none of them are, and Bb is nothing more than an approximate average of all the different things that all the musicians are playing.

Gm is one of my favorite ukulele chords, so I'm going to play with that a bit more. I've got another combination I'm playing with. One starts with an outrageous name that I had to look up to figure out, even though it's a pretty simple chord: index finger on E2 (an F), then middle and ring on the G and C, third fret (D# and A# respectively), to create an A#maj7sus4. :ROFLMAO: (I got this from the ChordNamer at UkeBuddy. If you have a better name, let me know! Or for that matter, a better place to tap on the picture of a fretboard to add notes and have it give you the name.)

a7etc.PNG

Then for the slide, sometimes I go to an F#m, but I'm also digging this thing that UkeBuddy doesn't have a name for. Again, very simple, an F#m with the two fingers on the second fret sliding down to the third. So sometimes I'm bouncing between A#maj7sus4 and this, or F#m and this....

noname.PNG

....so while I still haven't 100% come in for a landing, I'm more convinced than ever that the second Bb in the original sheet music doesn't have anything to do with what *I* need to be doing there. :)

Thanks again!
 

Wiggy

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It may (technically) calculate to an A7b9, but musically the A with A# is beyond my... well, it's beyond. It's The Beatles.

Without the A, the combo of G C# A# is used in at least 20 various chords:

 
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TimWilson

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It may (technically) calculate to an A7b9, but musically the A with A# is beyond my... well, it's beyond. It's The Beatles.

Without the A, the combo of G C# A# is used in at least 20 various chords:

I think what UkeBuddy may have meant, more than "No chords found", is "Could be a lot of names, depending on what key you're in." :ROFLMAO:
 

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It has something to do with literal truth and the necessity of approximation when it comes to translation, I think. The first Bb in this prechorus is dead on the money. Change it, and you miss the mark. That may be what you want to do, in which case, go right ahead, but it's a Bb. The second Bb is exactly what's written in the official sheet music (to the extent that such a thing exists), but there's a lot of other stuff going on, and to translate to a solo uke, you have to translate the entirety of the sound, where not every instrument is playing Bb.

Maybe none of them are, and Bb is nothing more than an approximate average of all the different things that all the musicians are playing.

Gm is one of my favorite ukulele chords, so I'm going to play with that a bit more. I've got another combination I'm playing with. One starts with an outrageous name that I had to look up to figure out, even though it's a pretty simple chord: index finger on E2 (an F), then middle and ring on the G and C, third fret (D# and A# respectively), to create an A#maj7sus4. :ROFLMAO: (I got this from the ChordNamer at UkeBuddy. If you have a better name, let me know! Or for that matter, a better place to tap on the picture of a fretboard to add notes and have it give you the name.)

View attachment 145945

Then for the slide, sometimes I go to an F#m, but I'm also digging this thing that UkeBuddy doesn't have a name for. Again, very simple, an F#m with the two fingers on the second fret sliding down to the third. So sometimes I'm bouncing between A#maj7sus4 and this, or F#m and this....

View attachment 145946

....so while I still haven't 100% come in for a landing, I'm more convinced than ever that the second Bb in the original sheet music doesn't have anything to do with what *I* need to be doing there. :)

Thanks again!
My bad.
sounds like you know everything already.
Where can I find your material? I’d love to hear you play.
 
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TimWilson

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sounds like you know everything already

Oh my friend, if I've given anything resembling that impression, I've seriously gone astray! My point is that I barely know anything! I can't find my way through a beginner-level tutorial with beginner-level chords without asking questions that I haven't the first clue how to answer! I'm having to use another website just to find the name of chords, and not even succeeding at that! And I still don't have the answer to my original question!

I doinked around for my first year, starting in August 2020, dropped out for a while to have a couple of extended nervous breakdowns (I've spoken at length about my mental illnesses on other threads), and have been seriously at this only since this summer. Call it maybe five months of playing for real?

So no, I barely know anything, and I've barely played a single song successfully all the way through. I'm immensely enjoying the process of learning, but I can't imagine anyone anywhere thinking that what I'm doing is even passable yet. I can see that eventuality somewhere just this side of the horizon, but nobody's going to be hearing my stuff any time soon. 🤣

Besides, I was agreeing with you. I love your Gm suggestion, and it's one alternative that I'm trying on for size.

In the meantime, I am really truly completely open to suggestions. 😊

Thanks again!
 

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Oh my friend, if I've given anything resembling that impression, I've seriously gone astray! My point is that I barely know anything! I can't find my way through a beginner-level tutorial with beginner-level chords without asking questions that I haven't the first clue how to answer! I'm having to use another website just to find the name of chords, and not even succeeding at that! And I still don't have the answer to my original question!

I doinked around for my first year, starting in August 2020, dropped out for a while to have a couple of extended nervous breakdowns (I've spoken at length about my mental illnesses on other threads), and have been seriously at this only since this summer. Call it maybe five months of playing for real?

So no, I barely know anything, and I've barely played a single song successfully all the way through. I'm immensely enjoying the process of learning, but I can't imagine anyone anywhere thinking that what I'm doing is even passable yet. I can see that eventuality somewhere just this side of the horizon, but nobody's going to be hearing my stuff any time soon. 🤣

Besides, I was agreeing with you. I love your Gm suggestion, and it's one alternative that I'm trying on for size.

In the meantime, I am really truly completely open to suggestions. 😊

Thanks again!
Tim, I so love your posts. Your knowledge, humility and positivity just shine through (even when I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about 😆). Keep ‘em coming!