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[Tsc3]

Greetings all from Santa Barbara, CA. I wrote an introductory message but will repeat part here.

I’m an amateur luthier building classical guitars. I just finished #2, Bouchet style. But, I’m going to build a tenor uke now.
I am a 73 year old retired dental technician. I have several hobbies, including Astronomy, woodworking, sports, music , home improvement and of course lutherie.

On two plans I bought I noticed no built in neck angle between the body and neck. Do any of you do that? I think the question also makes me question if the top can be domed or left flat?

I’m thinking of using a solera as I’ve done with my classical. I also was thinking of doming the top a little as well as the back. I’m using Koa for back and sides and with the Koa I received a free top, which is mystery spruce of some kind. I think it may be Sitka. At around 3 mm the tap tone is really muddy right now. In fact, I’m thinking of not using it. Instead I’m thinking of using a single piece of Western Cedar I got a while back. The growth rings are really consistent so it may work really well.

Thank you so much for any help on this.
Tim Crawford

 

[Jerryc41]

Greetings all from Santa Barbara, CA. I wrote an introductory message but will repeat part here.

I’m an amateur luthier building classical guitars. I just finished #2, Bouchet style. But, I’m going to build a tenor uke now.
I am a 73 year old retired dental technician. I have several hobbies, including Astronomy, woodworking, sports, music , home improvement and of course lutherie.

On two plans I bought I noticed no built in neck angle between the body and neck. Do any of you do that? I think the question also makes me question if the top can be domed or left flat?

I’m thinking of using a solera as I’ve done with my classical. I also was thinking of doming the top a little as well as the back. I’m using Koa for back and sides and with the Koa I received a free top, which is mystery spruce of some kind. I think it may be Sitka. At around 3 mm the tap tone is really muddy right now. In fact, I’m thinking of not using it. Instead I’m thinking of using a single piece of Western Cedar I got a while back. The growth rings are really consistent so it may work really well.

Thank you so much for any help on this.
Tim Crawford

I've made some ukes, and I was burned a couple of times because the neck was angled slightly upward. That makes it impossible to get a low action. On one uke, I was able to reposition the neck. On the other, I just live with it.

From what I understand, the neck should be level with the top - straight across. As for the neck-to-body angle, the common term is "no angle." I prefer "0°."

I'm sure some expert builders will add their advice, but that's my experience.

angle of ukulele neck to body - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[Tsc3]

I've made some ukes, and I was burned a couple of times because the neck was angled slightly upward. That makes it impossible to get a low action. On one uke, I was able to reposition the neck. On the other, I just live with it.

From what I understand, the neck should be level with the top - straight across. As for the neck-to-body angle, the common term is "no angle." I prefer "0°."

I'm sure some expert builders will add their advice, but that's my experience.

angle of ukulele neck to body - Google Search

www.google.com

Thank you Jerry! Much appreciated!
tim

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I've made some ukes, and I was burned a couple of times because the neck was angled slightly upward. That makes it impossible to get a low action. On one uke, I was able to reposition the neck. On the other, I just live with it.

From what I understand, the neck should be level with the top - straight across. As for the neck-to-body angle, the common term is "no angle." I prefer "0°."

I'm sure some expert builders will add their advice, but that's my experience.

angle of ukulele neck to body - Google Search

www.google.com

Angled up would definitely be an issue, but some back angle can be fine, just need a taller bridge.

The advice for the neck to be level with the body assumes the top of the uke is flat, which seems to be common in most Ukes. If Tim plans to dome the soundboard like a classical guitar then he will want to add a little bit of back angle to the neck as well, similar to the neck angle on a guitar.

 

[Tsc3]

If Tim plans to dome the soundboard like a classical guitar then he will want to add a little bit of back angle to the neck as well, similar to the neck angle on a guitar.
When I built my guitars, it was on a solera. To explain- the top is face down and indeed domed. The neck is glued on and the solera drops away on a neck extension a few mm at the end. This in effect ( to me) means the neck has an up angle- correct? If I get you right, this is NOT acceptable?

so, with a little domed top I would want a slight bit of back angle as seen in the lower image here:
Also, I believe this will require a shim.

 

[Tsc3]

Maybe my easiest course of action is to just build a flat top on #1 uke. It sure sounds a whole lot easier. I will dome the back some. That will project the sound a bit.
tim

 

[TheDudeAbides]

If Tim plans to dome the soundboard like a classical guitar then he will want to add a little bit of back angle to the neck as well, similar to the neck angle on a guitar.
When I built my guitars, it was on a solera. To explain- the top is face down and indeed domed. The neck is glued on and the solera drops away on a neck extension a few mm at the end. This in effect ( to me) means the neck has an up angle- correct? If I get you right, this is NOT acceptable?

so, with a little domed top I would want a slight bit of back angle as seen in the lower image here:
Also, I believe this will require a shim.

View attachment 145025

That guitar pictured on the bottom is what I was referring to as back angle, though it would be angled "up" when face down on the solerra.

Angled "up" isn't pictured, but that would result in your bridge being inside the instrument in order to get an acceptable action. An up angle(maybe not the correct term) would be undesirable in an uke or guitar.

Back to the pictures, those top 2 show a flat top to with no back angle. If you dome the sound board that raises the bridge up so in order to maintain the correct geometry youd need to add a back angle to the neck. With a flat sound board you wind up with the top 2 scenarios in your picture.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Maybe my easiest course of action is to just build a flat top on #1 uke. It sure sounds a whole lot easier. I will dome the back some. That will project the sound a bit.
tim

Why uke tops are commonly flat I'm not sure. It may just be easier to build, or just unnecessary. I thought guitars domed the sound board since it's stronger structurally and can better withstand the added stress of a longer scale length and 6 strings, but there could be tone benefits too.

I didn't mean to discourage you fr m trying it on an Uke

 

[Tsc3]

Why uke tops are commonly flat I'm not sure. It may just be easier to build, or just unnecessary. I thought guitars domed the sound board since it's stronger structurally and can better withstand the added stress of a longer scale length and 6 strings, but there could be tone benefits too.

I didn't mean to discourage you fr m trying it on an Uke

No worries. So far I’m in planning stages and time is not really pressing so, I can take my time. I’d rather spend good time now and understand where exactly I wish to go.

There is a side of me that wants to build a solera for this uke and build it Spanish style as with my guitars. To do this means making the neck and slotting it to “ let in” the sides. But, as I have done with guitars, it also means to give the neck/ body angle an “up angle. “ I do understand what you are saying about the bridge being inside the guitar. I am going to carefully go over my technique on guitars. I have only built two. Both are Bouchet design.

Please imagine my solera, having a dished out area in the lower bout area. There is an extension of the neck area of the solera. It tilts down about 3 degrees if I remember. Now, the top is placed face down on the solera. This in effect creates the dome on the top of the guitar’s top. This shape is maybe done for several reasons. I believe you are right about the strength factor, but I think the doming also creates a more robust sound on the inside. I am going to study this much more in the near future.

Trevor Gore from Australia is very proficient in the calculations of top thickness, based on several factors, density and Young’s modulus are just two. But, he also goes into a whole lot of really complex stuff like nut and saddle compensation, bracing and Modal tuning. I am just not there yet.

To go on, I don’t remember making a shim to put under the area of the body/ neck connection. ( As seen in the third image down). Instead I have a memory of shaving or sanding a bit from the underside of the neck/ body connection. This also suggests an “ up angled” neck. So, why do my bridges on the guitar not go underneath the top? I will investigate this . I think your suggestions are great! I must find this out. Seems to me I have read that if I make a domed top, there “may be an angle” between the body and neck- so, I’m going to go back and read all the info I have to get to the bottom of this.

Once more though, I must say, it would be MUCH easier for my first build to be flat so I can truly get a feel for what goes on. I also have to say maybe building a “ bolt on” neck would be MUCH wiser for these same reasons.

I want to thank you for opening my eyes to this topic! Very interesting to say the least.
Tim

 

[TheDudeAbides]

You can still build it flat on a solerra, in fact it's easier to make the sollera as there's no dishing out in the lower bout needed, and also no need to muck with neck angle either. The key to a sollera for a flat top uke is that the whole thing is flat. This is how i built mine and how I've seen most others do it when building with a Spanish Heel, though bolt on necks are an option too.

 

[Timbuck]

Why uke tops are commonly flat I'm not sure. It may just be easier to build, or just unnecessary. I thought guitars domed the sound board since it's stronger structurally and can better withstand the added stress of a longer scale length and 6 strings, but there could be tone benefits too.

I didn't mean to discourage you fr m trying it on an Uke

The dome isn't entirely for strength ... its also to compensate for humidity to prevent the wood splitting during shrinkage...

 

[Diogenes Blue]

In the past I radiused the whole top on my 12 fret sopranos and so I have a slight neck angle, then scrape and sand the radius into the fretboard past the 12th fret. I've seen youtube video of a well known guitar luthier that does the same. I did that on a couple of 15 fret sopranos and it was just too tedious. Now I radius the lower bout, keeping the upper bout flat.

 

[Tsc3]

Thank you all for these replies! They are just exactly what I need to hear. I’m going to decide soon on whether to dome the lower bout only or do the whole tenor flat. Although I’m leaning toward the bolt on for easier action adjustment, I would still like to build with the solera.

I’m thinking of doing a practical experiment by making a mock up of the tenor with a small 2 mm dish out on the lower bout and adjust the neck of the solera as I go, till I find the right angle. Seems like a lot of work, but worth it.

 

[Red Cliff]

That guitar pictured on the bottom is what I was referring to as back angle, though it would be angled "up" when face down on the solerra.

Angled "up" isn't pictured, but that would result in your bridge being inside the instrument in order to get an acceptable action. An up angle(maybe not the correct term) would be undesirable in an uke or guitar.

Back to the pictures, those top 2 show a flat top to with no back angle. If you dome the sound board that raises the bridge up so in order to maintain the correct geometry youd need to add a back angle to the neck. With a flat sound board you wind up with the top 2 scenarios in your picture.

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum, nice to see you over here. I just wanted to correct the statement about 'up angle' or as I would call it a 'forward neck angle'. Although not the done thing on a steel string it is the norm on a classical guitar, and over on Del Camp Tim you will see that most builders there build with forward angle and a doming. Not by much, 1-2mm forward angle normally, but it is there. The reason it doesn't end up with the bridge inside the guitar as suggested is due to the other geometry of classical guitars, namely the fretboard thickness, the bridge and saddle height and the higher action than you would have on an acoustic due to the lower tension of the strings. Just wanted to clear that up before you get too confused on your classical builds!

 

[Tsc3]

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum, nice to see you over here. I just wanted to correct the statement about 'up angle' or as I would call it a 'forward neck angle'. Although not the done thing on a steel string it is the norm on a classical guitar, and over on Del Camp Tim you will see that most builders there build with forward angle and a doming. Not by much, 1-2mm forward angle normally, but it is there. The reason it doesn't end up with the bridge inside the guitar as suggested is due to the other geometry of classical guitars, namely the fretboard thickness, the bridge and saddle height and the higher action than you would have on an acoustic due to the lower tension of the strings. Just wanted to clear that up before you get too confused on your classical builds!

Yes, hi Giles! Thank you for this clarification. I suspect this “ forward angle” is even less for the uke. As I mentioned I’m tempted to do a mock up. Thinking on the experiment made me wonder about how to flip the mock up top and next to see the results. Maybe I can just use a flat set up and add a couple of mm doming just by placing a 2 mm shim at the bridge area, and another 1 mm shim over the fingerboard area at the nut and tentative fingerboard thickness and then use the straightedge. I’d place a bridge I made over the 2 mm shim at the bridge area. That should give me a pretty good idea of the action. I’ll correct as needed.

Thank you ( again) for your help! I really do appreciate the help.
tim

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum, nice to see you over here. I just wanted to correct the statement about 'up angle' or as I would call it a 'forward neck angle'. Although not the done thing on a steel string it is the norm on a classical guitar, and over on Del Camp Tim you will see that most builders there build with forward angle and a doming. Not by much, 1-2mm forward angle normally, but it is there. The reason it doesn't end up with the bridge inside the guitar as suggested is due to the other geometry of classical guitars, namely the fretboard thickness, the bridge and saddle height and the higher action than you would have on an acoustic due to the lower tension of the strings. Just wanted to clear that up before you get too confused on your classical builds!

Interesting, my building experience is so far Ukes and electric guitars so classicals aren't my area of expertise so thank you for correcting me

The thicker fretboard and higher action would explain the geometry but now I'm curious just how thick of a fretboard are you putting on a classical guitar and what sort of action are you aiming for?

 

[Tsc3]

Interesting, my building experience is so far Ukes and electric guitars so classicals aren't currently my area of expertise so thank you for correcting me

The thicker fretboard and higher action would explain the geometry but now I'm curious just how thick of a fretboard are you putting on a classical guitar and what sort of action are you aiming for?

Greetings. Yes, I’m using 1/4” fingerboard thickness. The action at the 12th fret is about 3.5-4 mm on the 6th string and maybe 2.7-3 mm at the 12th fret , first string. Some people say 3 on the first string and 4 mm on then6th. Just depends on how low an action you like.
tim

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Greetings. Yes, I’m using 1/4” fingerboard thickness. The action at the 12th fret is about 3.5-4 mm on the 6th string and maybe 2.7-3 mm at the 12th fret , first string. Some people say 3 on the first string and 4 mm on then6th. Just depends on how low an action you like.
tim

Got it.

Yeah, I was thinking ukes which have a fretboard around 1/8" to 3/16" and an action around 2.3mm to 2.5mm, which is why I was worried about the dome height and neck angle, though it sounds like you've got a handle on the geometry here and are good to go.

 

[sequoia]

Okay, for a first build don't over think things too much. In this case, do a flat top and a fretboard that has no angle because on an uke it is not really needed. This will make your build (and your life) a LOT easier. Why? because you can lay the uke top side down on a flat piece of wood, mate the neck up without the fretboard on and see if you have any gaps between your neck heel and the body. Usually there will be a gap. Sand until everything is flat with no gaps. Glue on your 1/4 inch fretboard and attach via dowels (easy!) or bolts (not as easy!) and you are on your way. Set the action by adjusting the nut and bridge to desired action height. If you want a compound radius on your uke top, do it on the second one is my advice. But just go for it. Thinking too much can be fatal. Good luck.

 

[Tsc3]

Thank you sequoia. I’m thinking that is good advice. The more I get into the plan, the more I want to do the flat top. I’m going back and forth on it. As I’m still waiting for a few parts to come in, I can still waffle a bit, but all in all I think the flat thing makes sense right now.
T