Nuts/saddles: bone vs synthetic vs wood

[Coast_Ukulele]

i like to get the classical guitar sized bone blanks. i can get a nut and saddle out of one of those. i’ve also tried micarta a bunch and like it. but been trying to find ways to reduce how much plastic particles i use so sticking with bone for now. i should try wood one day! sounds fun.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Thanks for everyone's input. I just ordered 10 unbleached bone saddle blanks from Philadelphia Luthier. Their shipping is very reasonable, and I got a larger size so that I can get more than one part out of each blank. Therefore, this should be a very cost-effective way to make nuts and saddles. I will report back on how they look and if they're in line with stated dimensions (too large being fine, of course)

Remember to wear a mask. Bone dust is extremely terrible for your lungs.

I've got a 10 pack of both nut and saddle blanks from Philly I've been slowly working through. They're also great because if you screw up you won't feel bad about chucking it in the trash and starting over with a new blank. If you have micromesh pads bone shines up real nice too.

 

[ailevin]

This is another one of those categories where none of those choices would matter to me. I know I wouldn't be able to hear a difference in sound. However, if I was paying $1,000 for a uke, "genuine plastic nut and saddle" would not be a selling point. Various synthetic materials, like Corian, are also used for nuts and saddles.

Maybe I'll swap a bone for a plastic saddle some day and see if I can detect a difference.

I know that my Kamaka HF-2 came with a nut made of TUSQ (some kind of synthetic), and I believe KoAloha uses TUSQ on the KTM-00 as well.

 

[Tom Snape]

I saw a YT video where Robert Godin was talking about the construction of Godin acoustic guitars. He said something to the effect that the main reason for choosing Tusq over bone for saddles is the consistency of the synthetic material. The density of bone will vary from piece to piece. This would be important for a company selling lots of instruments, but not so much for small builders.

I once bought a bunch of thick walled soup bones at the grocery. I cooked all the marrow out, dried the bones and sawed them up into large blanks on the bandsaw. That was a smelly operation. I think I used an old blade and probably changed it right after that. Then I soaked them in glass jars of white gas (Coleman fuel) to defat them. It worked, and I ended up with a good quantity of useable blanks. Since then I purchase bone blanks online.

Nearly all the vintage ukuleles that I can think of used wood saddles. The early Martin and Gibson examples I've studied have ebony or rosewood saddles. The early Hawiian ones often just used a saddle that was integral with the koa bridge. Recently I've been using ebony and I like it. Depends upon the sound you're going for.

 

[Uke-alot]

Just a quick update. I got my package of 10 unbleached bone saddle blanks from Philadelphia Luthier a couple days ago. Being unbleached, there is some variation in color within and between blanks, as expected. They tend to be slightly oversized from the product specs, which is consistent with the product description that stated that they could be. Nearly 100% of every blank appears to be usable (very minor chips on just a couple and no cracks, etc.). Edges and corners are crisp and reasonably close to square. The flat faces are reasonable close to being flat.

I got a larger size in the hope that I could get multiple parts out of each one. I can easily get two saddles or a saddle and a nut out of each one, and maybe could get three or four parts out of each one with careful cutting. 2 parts per blank results in a price of $1.20/part, and if I screw one up I won't feel bad about starting over with a new piece.

The cheapskate in me feels like I did the right thing. I did have to confess to my family that the ukuleles will not be 100% vegetarian.

I would order these again if needed, or I now have a lifetime supply if I just make a few ukes.

 

[Oldscruggsfan]

I saw a YT video where Robert Godin was talking about the construction of Godin acoustic guitars. He said something to the effect that the main reason for choosing Tusq over bone for saddles is the consistency of the synthetic material. The density of bone will vary from piece to piece. This would be important for a company selling lots of instruments, but not so much for small builders.

I once bought a bunch of thick walled soup bones at the grocery. I cooked all the marrow out, dried the bones and sawed them up into large blanks on the bandsaw. That was a smelly operation. I think I used an old blade and probably changed it right after that. Then I soaked them in glass jars of white gas (Coleman fuel) to defat them. It worked, and I ended up with a good quantity of useable blanks. Since then I purchase bone blanks online.

Nearly all the vintage ukuleles that I can think of used wood saddles. The early Martin and Gibson examples I've studied have ebony or rosewood saddles. The early Hawiian ones often just used a saddle that was integral with the koa bridge. Recently I've been using ebony and I like it. Depends upon the sound you're going for.

I personally like the appearance of ebony saddles.
In your experience, what specific type of sound differences have you noticed when installing bone saddles compared to ebony (on the same uke with the same brand of strings)? In other words, are you hearing a difference in brightness, volume, sustain, or something else?

This isn’t a “loaded” question. As I’ve posted in the past, when I replaced my uke’s bargain basement plastic saddle with one made from bison bone, there was immediate, discernible improvement in every possible sound category. Yes, I’m a sometimes over-enthusiastic uke newbie and my uke is just a shade above rubbish, yet the difference was as if I’d progressed from a mail order throwaway item to a genuine musical instrument, all at an additional expense of only US $5.88.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I personally like the appearance of ebony saddles.
In your experience, what specific type of sound differences have you noticed when installing bone saddles compared to ebony (on the same uke with the same brand of strings)? In other words, are you hearing a difference in brightness, volume, sustain, or something else?

This isn’t a “loaded” question. As I’ve posted in the past, when I replaced my uke’s bargain basement plastic saddle with one made from bison bone, there was immediate, discernible improvement in every possible sound category. Yes, I’m a sometimes over-enthusiastic uke newbie and my uke is just a shade above rubbish, yet the difference was as if I’d progressed from a mail order throwaway item to a genuine musical instrument, all at an additional expense of only US $5.88.

You can also make nuts and saddles out of horn too, which come in black if you prefer the darker material.

I've never played anything that's used horn for the nut or saddle so I can't comment on sound, but it seems like an interesting option.

 

[Oldscruggsfan]

You can also make nuts and saddles out of horn too, which come in black if you prefer the darker material.

I've never played anything that's used horn for the nut or saddle so I can't comment on sound, but it seems like an interesting option.

Good point. I’m guessing - solely on the basis that their basic material is keratin - that horn is somewhat softer/ less dense than bone.

 

[pondweed]

I read somewhere that bleached bone is less dense than unbleached, so bought unbleached blanks from China - about £7.90 for 10 posted very recently.

 

[Tom Snape]

In your experience, what specific type of sound differences have you noticed when installing bone saddles compared to ebony (on the same uke with the same brand of strings)? In other words, are you hearing a difference in brightness, volume, sustain, or something else?

I haven't done enough experimenting to be able to make specific claims. Each instrument I've made has its own sound and I don't know how much I could attribute to the saddle alone. I'm haven't had the time (or am too lazy) to do these structured experiments. Maybe in a few years when I retire from my paying job! I will admit probably the best sounding uke I've made and kept still has the temporary hard maple saddle that I used to make to figure out compensation before making the final bone saddle. That one is soprano with Koa B&S, Englemann spruce top and fluorocarbon strings. Maybe I should try a bone saddle on that one to see the difference.

 

[Tom Snape]

You can also make nuts and saddles out of horn too, which come in black if you prefer the darker material.

I've never played anything that's used horn for the nut or saddle so I can't comment on sound, but it seems like an interesting option.

Funny you mention that because I have in hand pieces of moose and elk antler that I been planning to cut up soon for nut and saddle blanks. I'm not sure how well they will work. Where they have been sawn across, it looks like they have a hard outer shell a few mm thick, but the inside seems to consist of a less dense, maybe even partly porous material.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Funny you mention that because I have in hand pieces of moose and elk antler that I been planning to cut up soon for nut and saddle blanks. I'm not sure how well they will work. Where they have been sawn across, it looks like they have a hard outer shell a few mm thick, but the inside seems to consist of a less dense, maybe even partly porous material.

The ones I always see on LMII are Buffalo horn, and I'm not sure how much horn density varies among different animals, but I'd think it would all be fairly similar. I'd also assume Buffalo horn is just more readily available too.

Please report back if you try this.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Good point. I’m guessing - solely on the basis that their basic material is keratin - that horn is somewhat softer/ less dense than bone.

Just went and looked, and according to our friends at LMII

"It is significantly softer than bone, so if you want to tame the high end on an instrument, this might be a good material to go to, especially for the saddle."

Though now I'm curious what the Janka hardness of horn is vs. Ebony or rosewood. It doesn't look like anyone does the Janka test on buffalo horns.

Luthiers Mercantile International

www.lmii.com

 

[sequoia]

Funny you mention that because I have in hand pieces of moose and elk antler that I been planning to cut up soon for nut and saddle blanks. I'm not sure how well they will work. Where they have been sawn across, it looks like they have a hard outer shell a few mm thick, but the inside seems to consist of a less dense, maybe even partly porous material.

Keep in mind that horns are very different from antlers. I would think that antler material would be too soft to make good nuts and saddles.

7 Difference Between Antlers and Horns (With Table) - Animal Differences

What is the difference between Antlers and Horns? Antlers and horns are structures that grow on top of animals’ heads. ... Read More

animaldifferences.com

 

[Beau Hannam Ukuleles]

Tusq is good for adding clarity/trebles to a tone.
Bone is a better choice for already bright ukes or guitars.
Wood (maple or ebony)- I've never used either for my instruments so can't comment other then to say that violins (and family like cellos etc) use ebony for nuts and maple for bridges so it must be good at whatever it does but they are a totally different animal to ukes/guitars etc.

 

[BuzzBD]

Years ago a mandolin customer of mine paid me to experiment with different saddle materials. I made saddles out of ebony, rosewood, maple, bone, ivory, brass and aluminum. To be sure, the nut and saddle material will have an effect on the timbre of the instrument. In this case, the best sounding material for his mando was a slimmed down ebony saddle. Traditional saddles for mandolins and archtop guitars are ebony and rosewood. I am currently using ebony or bone for my ukulele.
Brad

 

[Mfturner]

It may not be the very best choice, but Mesquite can be had as fatwood for lighting charcoal grills.

Last year in an attempt to improve the intonation of my 60 year old Harmony, which has a presumably poplar one piece bridge and saddle (really it looks like repurposed trim molding with string slots sawn) I split off a smaller-than-a-matchstick sized piece of the fatwood and friction fit it just in front of the saddle. Immediately it was louder, brighter, more musical in every way.

Someone mentioned Janka hardness, poplar is around 500 like most softwoods, and mesquite is surprisingly higher than most American or European hardwoods at up to 2300 (birch or maple can be up to 1400, hickory up to 1800, some ebony species and stuff from Brazil can be over 3000). So maybe that is what helped, maybe it was the minor break angle change, maybe something else. Regardless, it lives on my Harmony now, giving it new life, and would be an easy experiment on my Flea for fun to compare against its Nubone saddle, whatever that is.

 

[mikeyb2]

There is a mandolin/guitar repairer(and builder) called Jerry Rosa, and his shop the Rosa String Works. Some may be familiar with him, he has a series of YT videos covering all aspects of luthiery work. He makes and sells deer antler saddles, and occasionally guitar saddles and probably nuts. He says they are far superior to other materials tonally, but he sells them so he would say that. I have no experience with them myself but he's worth checking out if you're wanting to try antler.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Though to be fair, when it comes to sound it's all personal preference. The common nut/saddle materials give you the sound(in conjunction with the rest of the instrument) that most folks are looking for.

On the other hand, there's the whole rubber bridge thing that's relatively new in the world of guitars that is catching on now too, I for one never would have even thought to consider rubber as a material for a saddle, but lots of musicians appear to love it.

If you've got easy access to the material, go for it, worst case you have to replace the nut/saddle because you don't like it. They're consumable parts of the instrument anyway so it's not the worst mistake you could make building an Uke.