Plant-based recorders

[kvehe]

Yamaha has come out with a soprano and an alto recorder made with "Ecodear", a plant-based resin.


Given the success of the Clara, I thought I'd give it a try.

Has anyone actually played one yet?

Thanks.

 

[bacchettadavid]

I had the alto model shipped from Japan a few months ago. The tone is a bit darker than the tone of a 300 series Yamaha but without the reediness of my 700 series Aulos. It is also noticeably heavier than my 300 series Yamaha alto (a good thing in this case).

As injection-molded resin recorders go, it's good. It doesn't hold a candle to my Bernolin resin recorder (which was not injection-molded), but then again, it's much cheaper.

All in all, I think it's an improvement over the 300 series Yamaha line. Keep in mind that the Ecodear compound is still 70% ABS resin (maybe for stability?).

 

[kvehe]

Thank you! It sounds like something I might like; I expect mine next week.

 

[Jim Hanks]

As injection-molded resin recorders go, it's good. It doesn't hold a candle to my Bernolin resin recorder (which was not injection-molded), but then again, it's much cheaper.

I haven't touched my recorder in quite a while but I saw the Edodear announced on the yahoo recorder group where it got good marks. I was also interested in the Bernolin when it came out. Can you give some more details on the differences between the two? Playability? tone?

 

[bacchettadavid]

The Bernolin is an excellent recorder, Jim. I don't really think it fair to compare the Bernolin to the Yamaha resin recorders. They are made by different methods, and the undercutting on the Bernolin makes it superior to any injection-molded recorder I've yet played. I'd rank it about on par overall with mid-range recorders like Yamaha's 800 series recorder line.

The Bernolin's tone is rich and changes with register (beautiful overtones across entire range), but it is not particularly loud. I'd say it's about on par with my Yamaha 800 series and Fehr Stanesbury in terms of playability--very articulate response requiring subtlety from the player (probably more delicate/sensitive than the Yamaha 800 and slightly less sensitive than the Fehr). Overall, a very expressive instrument that "gets out of the way", as it were, once you can reign it in.

The Bernolin is not without faults. It lacks the tonal complexity (and volume, if this is important to you) of my Fehr Stanesbury and Blezinger Denner altos; however, I often gravitate towards playing the Bernolin because it doesn't clog (at all...seriously, I've played it for an hour without any issues) and is much easier to maintain.

If you're considering getting back into recorder, consider the Bernolin. If I were to ever get out of playing recorder, it's the one recorder I own that I would keep. It's low-maintenance (as recorders go) and highly playable, which makes for a great pick up and play instument.

But I wouldn't scoff at an Ecodear instrument, either. Keep in mind that the Antique Sound Workshop probably has some altos in stock by now (or will soon), and that you can buy a "set up" recorder through them at full retail price (this would probably make the Ecodear an excellent deal for starting players).

 

[Jim Hanks]

Thanks! I used to be into recorder a lot more back when I had a regular church gig. We moved churches and I found I wasn't playing them. I sold a nice Hubert tenor (that I got from ASw incidentally) and a so-so Moeck soprano, keeping only a Kung Superio alto.

Bill Lazar is also carrying the Ecodear line now.

 

[bacchettadavid]

You're welcome, Jim!

What do you think of the Kung Superio? That's a modern style recorder, correct?

I prefer baroque recorders since I play mostly solo, but I will admit to sometimes tiring of the baroque recorders'..."character". I hear that good modern recorders are easier to play.

 

[Jim Hanks]

What do you think of the Kung Superio? That's a modern style recorder, correct?

I think so but I'm not sure of what constitutes modern vs baroque. Here's what I thought of it when I got it:
http://jimhanksmusic.com/jim/AltoRecorderTest.htm

 

[Chopped Liver]

The Bernolin is an excellent recorder, Jim. I don't really think it fair to compare the Bernolin to the Yamaha resin recorders. They are made by different methods, and the undercutting on the Bernolin makes it superior to any injection-molded recorder I've yet played. I'd rank it about on par overall with mid-range recorders like Yamaha's 800 series recorder line.

The Bernolin's tone is rich and changes with register (beautiful overtones across entire range), but it is not particularly loud. I'd say it's about on par with my Yamaha 800 series and Fehr Stanesbury in terms of playability--very articulate response requiring subtlety from the player (probably more delicate/sensitive than the Yamaha 800 and slightly less sensitive than the Fehr). Overall, a very expressive instrument that "gets out of the way", as it were, once you can reign it in.

The Bernolin is not without faults. It lacks the tonal complexity (and volume, if this is important to you) of my Fehr Stanesbury and Blezinger Denner altos; however, I often gravitate towards playing the Bernolin because it doesn't clog (at all...seriously, I've played it for an hour without any issues) and is much easier to maintain.

If you're considering getting back into recorder, consider the Bernolin. If I were to ever get out of playing recorder, it's the one recorder I own that I would keep. It's low-maintenance (as recorders go) and highly playable, which makes for a great pick up and play instument.

But I wouldn't scoff at an Ecodear instrument, either. Keep in mind that the Antique Sound Workshop probably has some altos in stock by now (or will soon), and that you can buy a "set up" recorder through them at full retail price (this would probably make the Ecodear an excellent deal for starting players).

Yes, I know this is 2 years old, but I found it through a google search.

David, do you think the Bernolin is worth the $493 price tag compared to getting a wooden recorder?

I have the ecodear and wondered if there would be much difference, but it sounds like there is. I really like the low maintenance and durability aspect vs wood.

If I start a regular practice routine with the alto ecodear, I may save up and get the Bernolin as my 60th birthday present.

 

[Jim Hanks]

One thing to consider if you're getting the 415hz version is that woods at that pitch are usually much more expensive. I wish he had a 392hz version.

 

[bacchettadavid]

Jan,

Short answer: Yes. The Bernolin compares favorably to other similarly priced wooden recorders.

Long answer: It depends. If you have a clear idea of what you want and deeper pockets (and are willing to put up with wood), there are a few other comparable options out there at around the $1000 price point. In the 415Hz arena, I swear by Yamaha's Denner copy IF it matches what you're looking for.

As for how the Bernolin compares to the Ecodear...as with ukuleles, the law of diminishing returns applies to recorders. There is a definite improvement in performance, but the ecodear recorders are not bad instruments, and the subtle improvements are accompanied by a slightly more challenging upper register and increased sensitivity to fluctuations in breath pressure, so there's also that consider.

The Bernolin is still the best sub-$500 alto recorder I've played. It's one of the best sub-$1000 recorders I've played. That's without taking into account its maintenance advantages.

In short, yes, the upgrade is worth the investment. If you approach the ecodear with enough discipline, you will begin to outgrow it and want easier access to expressiveness. When that happens, the Bernolin or a wooden recorder of similar quality will open some doors for you.

 

[Chopped Liver]

Jan,

Short answer: Yes. The Bernolin compares favorably to other similarly priced wooden recorders.

Long answer: It depends. If you have a clear idea of what you want and deeper pockets (and are willing to put up with wood), there are a few other comparable options out there at around the $1000 price point. In the 415Hz arena, I swear by Yamaha's Denner copy IF it matches what you're looking for.

As for how the Bernolin compares to the Ecodear...as with ukuleles, the law of diminishing returns applies to recorders. There is a definite improvement in performance, but the ecodear recorders are not bad instruments, and the subtle improvements are accompanied by a slightly more challenging upper register and increased sensitivity to fluctuations in breath pressure, so there's also that consider.

The Bernolin is still the best sub-$500 alto recorder I've played. It's one of the best sub-$1000 recorders I've played. That's without taking into account its maintenance advantages.

In short, yes, the upgrade is worth the investment. If you approach the ecodear with enough discipline, you will begin to outgrow it and want easier access to expressiveness. When that happens, the Bernolin or a wooden recorder of similar quality will open some doors for you.

Thanks, guys!

So, this "slightly more challenging upper register and increased sensitivity to fluctuations in breath pressure" is going to be true of any good upgrade - right? And I assume those are the things that help it to be more expressive?

 

[JesterBlod]

When I read Plant based recorders - this is what I thought of..... I really need to get out more!!

 

[bacchettadavid]

Jan, yes to both questions.

Jester, that's a marvelous instrument--a recorder you can play AND eat. I think I might have to try to make a few of those.

 

[Jim Hanks]

When I read Plant based recorders - this is what I thought of..... I really need to get out more!!

Yes, yes you do. :biglaugh:

 

[Chopped Liver]

Jan, yes to both questions.

Jester, that's a marvelous instrument--a recorder you can play AND eat. I think I might have to try to make a few of those.

Thanks so much! Seems like the perfect recorder for me! Now to save up some money . . .

 

[Chopped Liver]

 

[Chopped Liver]

Jan,

Short answer: Yes. The Bernolin compares favorably to other similarly priced wooden recorders.

Long answer: It depends. If you have a clear idea of what you want and deeper pockets (and are willing to put up with wood), there are a few other comparable options out there at around the $1000 price point. In the 415Hz arena, I swear by Yamaha's Denner copy IF it matches what you're looking for.

As for how the Bernolin compares to the Ecodear...as with ukuleles, the law of diminishing returns applies to recorders. There is a definite improvement in performance, but the ecodear recorders are not bad instruments, and the subtle improvements are accompanied by a slightly more challenging upper register and increased sensitivity to fluctuations in breath pressure, so there's also that consider.

The Bernolin is still the best sub-$500 alto recorder I've played. It's one of the best sub-$1000 recorders I've played. That's without taking into account its maintenance advantages.

In short, yes, the upgrade is worth the investment. If you approach the ecodear with enough discipline, you will begin to outgrow it and want easier access to expressiveness. When that happens, the Bernolin or a wooden recorder of similar quality will open some doors for you.

Hi David,

I am sorry for so many questions, but I don't have another source of information for this.

I wonder if you would elaborate on a few things:
1. If you have a clear idea of what you want - I have not played any "good" recorders. I have only played plastic and one cheap wooden recorder. I don't know what sounds I am looking for. I want to play baroque and early music, classical and church music. How do I figure out what I want if I don't have access to good recorders to try?

2. There is a definite improvement in performance, but the ecodear recorders are not bad instruments, and the subtle improvements are accompanied by a slightly more challenging upper register and increased sensitivity to fluctuations in breath pressure. Are these subtle improvements enough for me, as a beginner, to hear and appreciate? If not, is it something that will come with time as I get better? I would be looking at this recorder as my main recorder and don't plan (at this point) of getting another.

3.yes, the upgrade is worth the investment. If you approach the ecodear with enough discipline, you will begin to outgrow it and want easier access to expressiveness. When that happens, the Bernolin or a wooden recorder of similar quality will open some doors for you. So, how long of this "enough discipline"? Is this something I should consider now so that I can grow into it, or would it be better to stick with the ecodear until a future point in time?

4. A415 vs A440: I intend to play the recorder solo. I will mainly play for my enjoyment but I won't rule out maybe wanting to play sometime at church (solo or possibly accompanied). I am guessing as long as I am solo, A415 won't matter. However, if I want to play with someone else or be accompanied, I assume I would need A440. Is that correct?

Thanks so much!

 

[Jim Hanks]

I can help with some of this:
1. If you have a rough idea of what you want, give a Bill Lazar a call and have him send you a few that meet your needs and budget. You can send back the ones you don't want and all you're out is shipping both ways.

2/3. Can't help there. I'm never been in the camp of "wait till later when you need/deserve a special instrument". If you can afford it and enjoy it, that's enough for me even if you aren't "getting the most" out of it yet.

4. Depends. A440 will be more versatile in general as access to more common keys like C, G, F, etc. is easier. And you'll be able to read other "C instrument" music without transposing. On the other hand, if you play with guitarists a lot, A415 could be useful as your recorder would then be "in E" and give you easier access to guitar friendly keys.

 

[Chopped Liver]

I can help with some of this:
1. If you have a rough idea of what you want, give a Bill Lazar a call and have him send you a few that meet your needs and budget. You can send back the ones you don't want and all you're out is shipping both ways.

2/3. Can't help there. I'm never been in the camp of "wait till later when you need/deserve a special instrument". If you can afford it and enjoy it, that's enough for me even if you aren't "getting the most" out of it yet.

4. Depends. A440 will be more versatile in general as access to more common keys like C, G, F, etc. is easier. And you'll be able to read other "C instrument" music without transposing. On the other hand, if you play with guitarists a lot, A415 could be useful as your recorder would then be "in E" and give you easier access to guitar friendly keys.

Thanks, Jim!

As to the "wait until" question, it is more a matter of will it be much harder to play because of its sensitivity to breathe pressure, etc. I don't want to get so frustrated I quit!

I figure the A440 would probably be my best bet since I don't have a guitarist to play with and the A440 would be more versatile. I do love the recorder sounding lower because I like the lower sounds. (I have a tenor but the reach is hard! I need to work with it to see if I can adjust to the stretch).