Seasonistas on-line get together / open mic

pabrizzer

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Thanks, Brian, for the quick response. I did delete the post as soon as her message came through. It scared me to death. Maybe I should put a disclaimer, as Andy does, on all my existing posts. I’m feeling paranoid and quite chastised.
other than making us feel better that disclaimer won't really help LIz given that we've already claimed in the upload process
 

chris667

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Hey folks, something scary happened today. I received this comment on my second video for Val's supermarket week directly from the singer/songwriter and now I am afraid to post at all:

From:
Michelle Shocked
Hi Liz Do you understand "statutory damages for willful infringment [stet] of copyright" when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work you upload to YouTube? In December 2021 a new copyright tribunal will allow me to sue you for copyright infringement and YouTube will not protect you from liability. While YouTube serves advertising on your video of my song, and rakes in billions from users like you, you will have sole legal responsibility (for up to $30,000 in copyright infringement) for claiming to own the rights to my song.


Please advise...
Liz
And now we know why we don't hear from her anymore.

This sounds like an empty threat, Liz. As far as I know, Michelle Shocked isn't a lawyer. Just some obscure 90s musician. She would have to pay a lawyer to chase you with no guarantee of success.

On the other hand, YouTube has rather good lawyers and even better lobbyists. If artists started making copyright claims like this, I doubt they would be supportive. Think of the loss of revenue to Google!

Pretty mean of her though. A bit disappointing. Never meet your heroes, eh?
 
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lizbrinker

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And now we know why we don't hear from her anymore.

This sounds like an empty threat, Liz. As far as I know, Michelle Shocked isn't a lawyer. Just some obscure 90s musician. She would have to pay a lawyer to chase you with no guarantee of success.

On the other hand, YouTube has rather good lawyers and even better lobbyists. If artists started making copyright claims like this, I doubt they would be supportive. Think of the loss of revenue to Google!

Pretty mean of her though. A bit disappointing. Never meet your heroes, eh?
Thanks for the support, Chris, but she does have a point. If we agree in the upload agreement that we own the copyright to a song, that's not usually the case. It's YouTube she's mad at, but I stand to lose. Just trying to figure out how to move forward. I will post her comment to this week's season, as well.
 

Voran

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Hey folks, something scary happened today. I received this comment on my second video for Val's supermarket week directly from the singer/songwriter and now I am afraid to post at all:

From:
Michelle Shocked
Hi Liz Do you understand "statutory damages for willful infringment [stet] of copyright" when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work you upload to YouTube? In December 2021 a new copyright tribunal will allow me to sue you for copyright infringement and YouTube will not protect you from liability. While YouTube serves advertising on your video of my song, and rakes in billions from users like you, you will have sole legal responsibility (for up to $30,000 in copyright infringement) for claiming to own the rights to my song.


Please advise...
Liz
Holy crap...That's awful, I'm sorry.
 

UkingViking

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What an unpleasant experience, never happened to me.

Its sounds very unprofessional to write threatening personal messages to youtube users, rather than letting a lawyer handle the contact and/or contact youtube to take down the video and give you a copyright strike. I wouldn't avoid that artists work in the future, but I think there is a good chance that you wont hear more from it, given the less organized approach from her.

If someone covered my songs, I would be honoured, as long as the accredited me as song writer.
And hey, they could make as much money off it as they wanted, as long as they would pay me a 15% songwriters share :).
Which would amount to diddley squad in most youtube cases.
 

YorkSteve

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Hey folks, something scary happened today. I received this comment on my second video for Val's supermarket week directly from the singer/songwriter and now I am afraid to post at all:

From:
Michelle Shocked
Hi Liz Do you understand "statutory damages for willful infringment [stet] of copyright" when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work you upload to YouTube? In December 2021 a new copyright tribunal will allow me to sue you for copyright infringement and YouTube will not protect you from liability. While YouTube serves advertising on your video of my song, and rakes in billions from users like you, you will have sole legal responsibility (for up to $30,000 in copyright infringement) for claiming to own the rights to my song.


Please advise...
Liz
That's pretty nasty of her, Liz. I do recall Jon Duncan having a run-in with Ms Shocked too, a few years ago. As long as you have deleted the video, I suspect it will go no further, even if her case has a leg to stand on (which I doubt).
She also has a history of threatening legal action against people selling second-hand copies of her vinyl & CDs. She really knows how to win friends...
 
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Jim Yates

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Hey folks, something scary happened today. I received this comment on my second video for Val's supermarket week directly from the singer/songwriter and now I am afraid to post at all:

From:
Michelle Shocked
Hi Liz Do you understand "statutory damages for willful infringment [stet] of copyright" when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work you upload to YouTube? In December 2021 a new copyright tribunal will allow me to sue you for copyright infringement and YouTube will not protect you from liability. While YouTube serves advertising on your video of my song, and rakes in billions from users like you, you will have sole legal responsibility (for up to $30,000 in copyright infringement) for claiming to own the rights to my song.


Please advise...
Liz
I don't understand the phrase ". . .when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work. . .".
Most, if not all, of the Liz videos I have watched give full credit to the composer of the piece. Accusing you of lying seems a step over the line; a giant step. I think of your videos as an homage to the composers.

Woody Guthrie had a tag line on some of his sheet music that said something like, ""This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it and spreading it around without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. That's what we wrote it for."
 

chris667

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Its sounds very unprofessional to write threatening personal messages to youtube users, rather than letting a lawyer handle the contact and/or contact youtube to take down the video and give you a copyright strike.
That's the nub of the issue, really. If there was money to be made, a lawyer would do it on her behalf then claim the money back from you afterwards.

I have experience of this, unfortunately.
 

RAB11

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I don't understand the phrase ". . .when you lied and claimed that you own the rights to the work. . .".
Most, if not all, of the Liz videos I have watched give full credit to the composer of the piece. Accusing you of lying seems a step over the line; a giant step. I think of your videos as an homage to the composers.

Woody Guthrie had a tag line on some of his sheet music that said something like, ""This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it and spreading it around without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. That's what we wrote it for."
The issue is that apparently when you upload to YouTube you agree by way of clicking upload that you 'own the rights to the work'. I've just gone looking for said disclaimer but it doesn't appear anywhere on the upload page on the YouTube app on my phone. Could be different on the desktop site.

The issue would be the wording. You could argue that Liz does own the right to her content as it's a video she's produced herself, albeit featuring a song written by someone else. I very much doubt any court case would go as far as fining her 30k anyway.

But on the other hand I've come across examples of major Youtubers (ie, the people who actually make a living from YouTube) have specific videos demonetised or muted in places because they've included copywrited material. Even partial covers as part of a larger bit of content. But then in those cases it'll only be specific covers that are muted and the rest is fine so it all depends on how much of a dickhead the copyright holder is.

Seems Michelle Shocked has a massive chip on her shoulder about it all and that's a shame.
 

pabrizzer

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things are opening up here in NSW so it's back to my regular Sunday activity - so may not be here for a while - unless we get locked down again.... uke on!
 

uke4ia

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This is the "Mary March and Nancy April" song I did at the open mic. When I did this video, I was playing it in Em, but to sing it better I've dropped it to Dm. This was a song I started in 1991 after my vacation in Newfoundland, and didn't finish until 2013. It's a good song for the Halloween season, because the way I wrote it, it's about someone being visited by the ghost of Demasduit.


Lyrics:

Without a sound, the figure stepped out of the wood
Until in front of me she stood
Then she pulled back her hood
And said, “Pretend for me now that
You know how it feels to be the last
To know the die’s already cast,
To have no future, only past

Here my people dwelt, we lived upon this land since the world began
Now all gone, naught but a fading memory, a wisp upon the sea

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I'm the one they call Mary March
And when Nancy's gone, then we are gone forever

Demasduit, I was Nonosabawsut’s bride
Captured and stolen from my tribe
Dragged off before their very eyes
Musket shots, my husband dead upon the snow
My child would be the next to go
And Mother wasn’t there to know

The coast men brought me away to be the go-between to my people left unseen
Taken to St. John's, I was a curiosity for everyone to see

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I'm the one they call Mary March
And when Nancy's gone, then we are gone forever

Twillingate, dying of white man's disease
The coughs that bring me to my knees
Sometimes I look out to the trees and think
One day soon when the Beothuk are all gone
Will any know we walked upon
This world or anything we've done

Nevermore will we fish the giving sea, spend the winter midst the trees
Nevermore to stand against the wind, red mud upon my skin

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I am Demasduit!
But I am no longer but a shadow on this earth
And when Shanawdithit passes, then we are gone for good
In a world that no longer has a place for the Beothuk
Tell them Demasduit has gone back to the wood"
 

Voran

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This is the "Mary March and Nancy April" song I did at the open mic. When I did this video, I was playing it in Em, but to sing it better I've dropped it to Dm. This was a song I started in 1991 after my vacation in Newfoundland, and didn't finish until 2013. It's a good song for the Halloween season, because the way I wrote it, it's about someone being visited by the ghost of Demasduit.


Lyrics:

Without a sound, the figure stepped out of the wood
Until in front of me she stood
Then she pulled back her hood
And said, “Pretend for me now that
You know how it feels to be the last
To know the die’s already cast,
To have no future, only past

Here my people dwelt, we lived upon this land since the world began
Now all gone, naught but a fading memory, a wisp upon the sea

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I'm the one they call Mary March
And when Nancy's gone, then we are gone forever

Demasduit, I was Nonosabawsut’s bride
Captured and stolen from my tribe
Dragged off before their very eyes
Musket shots, my husband dead upon the snow
My child would be the next to go
And Mother wasn’t there to know

The coast men brought me away to be the go-between to my people left unseen
Taken to St. John's, I was a curiosity for everyone to see

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I'm the one they call Mary March
And when Nancy's gone, then we are gone forever

Twillingate, dying of white man's disease
The coughs that bring me to my knees
Sometimes I look out to the trees and think
One day soon when the Beothuk are all gone
Will any know we walked upon
This world or anything we've done

Nevermore will we fish the giving sea, spend the winter midst the trees
Nevermore to stand against the wind, red mud upon my skin

Here I am, I'm the one they call Mary March
But that is not my name, 'twas hung upon me
I wore it in my shame, but I do not wear it any more
Hear me, I am Demasduit!
But I am no longer but a shadow on this earth
And when Shanawdithit passes, then we are gone for good
In a world that no longer has a place for the Beothuk
Tell them Demasduit has gone back to the wood"
I absolutely love that song. Brutal subject but so beautiful. Thanks for singing.
 
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chris667

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We mentioned this video tonight - a way to hide songs appears to be sandwiching it between two others.


It's such a shame Ian Emerson isn't playing anymore. There's no-one as effortless as him.
 

Jim Yates

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Sorry I had to leave before hearing most of you, but it was great to see your faces after missing so many get togethers.