Small Dog blinded by UPS driver

Doc_J

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
4,657
Points
38
Last edited:

stevepetergal

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
2,927
Points
0
This guy's got nothing. He needs to get a new dog and leash his animals. He claims the law is not protecting his rights. So, apparently the delivery man, legally on the property, has no right to defend himself whatsoever. If he doesn't, there's something very wrong. Doesn't matter if it's a Jack Russell terrier or any other breed. A dog, loose outdoors, is a potential threat to humans. The dog's "rights" should not be protected above the rights of any person acting perfectly within the limits of the law to protect him/herself from danger. I will certainly use whatever weapon I have at my disposal to protect my safety or that of a loved one being attacked by your dog, or if I interpret your dog's actions as an attack. Your dog may end up blinded or more seriously injured, or worse (for you). But, in fear of my safety or that of the people I love, I will not consider the "rights" of your unleashed pet. It has none. Chihuahua or Pitt Bull. We see, with horrifying regularity, stories in the news about adults and children attacked and permanently disfigured by dogs roaming around, just like this one.

If anything, the man in this video should sue the UPS driver for trespassing. See how that goes.

For all we know, this guy's probably the first who'll claim he has the right to protect his family's and his own safety with a firearm against a human being. I can't figure out my fellow Americans. I'm saddened to know that many of us will think "poor doggie" and actually support this unjustifiable boycott.
 

kkimura

Active member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
1,687
Points
38
Sorry but the root cause of this poor dog's injury is it's owner's failure to lease and control the dog's actions. The video clearly show the dog running at the UPS driver. The owner states that he was not watching the event unfold. Maybe in his community letting your dog run loose unsupervised is legal but I doubt it.

The dog on a lease or responding to a "heel" command from it's owner would have prevented this. To be fair, so would a UPS driver willing to let himself be a potential dog attack victim.
 

Teek

New member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
1,921
Points
0
I am a dog nut, and I would be horrified if this happened to my dog! Yes it's a horrible injury for the dog, it popped his eyeball.

However I'm a dog walker and I have handled and trained many many dogs. This dog was defending territory, not "running to greet" or "playing", he was doing typical yard guarding and running after a person who was in "his" space, especially as his owners weren't there to control the situation. He may not have bit but he looked like it was very possible, terriers are tenacious and can be aggressive.

Pepper spray didn't work on the pit bull and mastiff that got out of their side gate when a worker left it open and crossed a street full of traffic to get two mini Doxies I was walking. I emptied the whole can in their faces and eyes and they still rolled my dogs and mouthed them so now I carry a stun baton and won't hesitate to use it.

I can't tell you how many ignoranuses I pass while walking who say their dogs are 'friendly" and "just want to play" when the dogs are all hackled up and have intense hard eye contact, and invariably charge my dog(s) as soon as we pass. People don't understand their own dog's body language and don't know what leash aggression is and they foster it through ignorance and lack of training. Yesterday one young woman just laughed and said "Oh I don't know why he did that!" and I said "Because he has leash aggression and you don't do anything to control it. You need to teach him that he has to listen to you by making him sit quietly and look to you for his proper response". I was walking a bulldog that could have ripped her dog up, but I had the bulldog paying attention and also controlled.

The driver was startled and overreacted, it would have been better for the dog if he had not swung such a hard heavy piece of equipment, and instead used his foot to ward the dog off, but he may have ended up with it hanging off his ankle or his calf. If he had been bit he could have sued the crap out of the owners.
 

stevepetergal

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
2,927
Points
0
Another thing I find very interesting about the video is the dog owner's response to Mr. Fredrickson, at UPS. Every time he quotes the UPS rep, he completely ignores the fact that he's been answered with a most reasonable response, and says something about his doggie's rights. He even goes on continuously about UPS being the entity at fault. He's insane. The reason this guy's pursuing the incident in the "court of public opinion" is that he's entirely in the wrong and UPS has simply responded to him in the most reasonable manner imaginable. UPS is right. The police are right. In court, a judge would be right to throw this guy out on his ear. A judge would probably even be right to charge him with neglectful treatment of his own pet. An old saying fits here. This guy can't see beyond the end of his own nose.

I don't even think the delivery man's response is an overreaction. There are few people with the training to overcome a fight-or-flight response. Soldiers, cops, fire fighters, boxers maybe. With less than a second to react, the victim in the video simply lashes out at a violent attacker with a simple swat, barely even making contact, with what he has in his hand (an object hardly bigger than a cell phone). Then, with the attacker apparently still coming, slaps again and MISSES his attacker, (niether strike looking like the roundhouse blow the dog owner describes). He hardly looks like he came to the house looking for a fight or prepared for one. The poor dog has been seriously injured by being hit just wrong.

I too love dogs. Although I don't have one now, the dogs I've had I've loved enough to keep on a leash when outdoors. This is what happens. A dog is sometimes incapable of acting outside its' nature. And, as seen in this video, the same can be said for us humans. Lucky UPS driver. Poor Max has been blinded because he has a thoughtless fool for a human companion and no other reason.
 
Last edited:

Wicked

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
787
Points
0
As a "dog person," I am constantly appalled at the lack of understanding most dog owners have regarding the most basic behavior and needs of their dogs. This gentleman clearly lacks said understanding.

The statement, "That's what Jack Russel Terriers do," was a clear indication to me that he is unable to control his animal's actions. Obviously, he feels that there is no possible way that a small dog could cause harm - even though statistics show that (at least in the US) you are far more likely to be injured by a small breed. (Probably because their owners are less likely to correct bad behavior, but that is my opinion.)


The absolute worst are the people who "rescue" abused dogs, then fail to rehabilitate them in any way. Guess what, your "love" cannot repair trauma on its own.
 

Doc_J

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
4,657
Points
38
These dog owners shouldn't have left their dog outside at all, especially alone outside with the UPS driver. People need to realize that the UPS driver is not a family friend or invited guest, he's doing a job. This all could have been avoided.

The UPS driver did nothing illegal. Still, I believe a large, strong man didn't have to hit a 12 pound little dog so hard as to blind it. (It's just my opinion. Yes, I have a soft spot for small dogs as the owner of 2 shelter dogs of a Chihuahua mix). I was surprised the driver crouched down to get his hands and face closer to the dog, if he truly was afraid of being bitten (last thing I would do). The driver had other recourses, yell at the dog, use his feet to kick, or simply move beyond the known electric fence. But mostly, I'm disappointed that the driver didn't man-up and tell the owners that he hit the dog, after it "attacked" him, when they asked him "what happened" right after it happened. Silence is not the truth. Yeah, the owners were stupid, but they deserved to hear what happened from the driver (unless silence is the UPS policy after a driver beats a dog).
 

glass

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
34,622
Points
0
I work for FedEx and I have been bit once and chased and scraped up bad another time from homeowners who have dogs loose on the property. We as driver are not allowed to carry pepper spray or anything of sorts. A manger even told us hit the dog with the scanner. Defend yourself however. Just recently at a Sunrise assisted living facility the dog there barked circled me then jumped at my back as I was leaving. He had teeth showing as well. Two days later another dog on a runner attached to the house pulled the runner from the house and chased me back to car. Last week a customer came out of house with dog that was barking and told me it was ok I backed to truck as he said so the dog had hair raised and teeth showing customer was a foot or two away I took package and threw it at ground said sure your dog is not gonna attack me.
My new rule is if I see invisible fence sign package get left on driveway where I am at.
 

SteveZ

New member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
1,567
Points
0
It just goes to show the wrong critter requires a license. Dog stewardship brings with it a responsibility to understand dogs - their behavior (generic and by breed), needs, "value system" and the like. Just getting a dog and expecting it to just "behave" is idiotic. Most dogs end up in rescue facilities or worse because of the human's arrogance and stupidity. I can't fault the UPS person or the dog, but the dog's owner gets it all. The dog did was its instincts (protect the den from strangers) told it to do, and the owner was apathetic to the situation. As usual, the dog ends up the loser because of human stupidity.
 

coolkayaker1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
7,504
Points
0
I had a similar personal experience and my actions saved my life.

I am an avid power walker and hiker. I always, every time I leave the house (even if I'm just driving to Wal-mart for the latest issue of Tactical Warfare magazine...lol), carry a large folding knife that is within legal limits for my area (a Spyderco Para-military II with G10 handle and 4.5 inch blade, for those knifies out there). I have some training and know how to use it.
labrador.jpg

I was walking in my town early last summer, sweating up a storm, Walkman (only put in one earbud so I can still hear traffic) and walked on the side of the street (not even on sidewalk). A huge, blonde Labrador started way down the street and ran across yards and then into the street toward me, full speed. (photo is not the actual dog, but one just like him). I had only an instant to react, and the knife came out. Obviously I stopped walking and was in the middle of the unbusy street now, and the dog was circling me and barking. Just being friendly--or ready to eat me? Absolutely no way to tell in a split second encounter. All I know is, like the UPS driver, if the dog is within my arm's reach , he is too close and will be hurt. Sure enough, after one or two circlings of me, I'm standing in a prepared "gaucho" position (for those with knife fighting background) and tracking his movement, he lunged in. Rule one of fighting: Always be preemptive. I took that knife and stabbed him in the side of the neck. He took about an inch of the blade. The dog immediately stopped barking and stood perfectly still, as if he didn't know what hit him. He just stood there, no blood (that I could see), just stood there. Then, in about five seconds, he trotted away back down the street.

I wasted no time and walked to the police station; you can imagine, still sweating from the exercise and adrenaline making my head pop. A little kid in my situation (or just about anyone else, to be honest) would have been devastatingly overwhelmed by that dog. I reported the episode (officer said he had an idea of which dog it was) and the location of the dog and an officer had me show him where it happened. I was sort of fixed on the fact that it occurred on the public way. He said that the location being private or public does not matter; with any dog attack, even on private property, a person is allowed to defend themselves fully and legally by any legal means necessary (such as a legally carried knife; an AK-47, not so much). An hour later, the officer called me and said he spoke with the owner and the dog is not significantly harmed (lucky dog, if he'd have come in two inches closer, he wouldn't be alive now; the key here is that he was coming in on me, not me on him). I could press charges, the officer informed me, but since I wasn't bitten it would likely be no more than a slap on the hand of the owner, a small fine for an unleashed pet, at most. I'd have to go to court (yes, take a day off work to do it), and that would be the outcome. Since the officer had spoken to the owner, I let it go.

So, I agree with what you have all said in this thread. The USP driver did not over-react when he struck the dog; had the small dog been later discovered rabid, bit him and then he hit the dog in the eye, no one would say he over-reacted. He had no way to know. Had the UPS driver been, instead, a neighborhood kid who rode up the driveway on a bicycle, the kid would be in the ER for stitches and shots.

If the dog owner loved their pet--either the one that nearly got me, or the one on the video--they would keep them safely restrained.

Thanks for posting, Hodge. I'm going out of my way to ship one more package with UPS this week.
 
Last edited:

Olarte

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,578
Points
0
I have a 14 year old rat terrier that I love dearly, and part of that love is being a responsible owner. He is under my supervision at all times when outside, and I let him off the leash only on the last block as we return from a walk and even then ONLY if nobody is around.

We have been walking and running most of his life and while he is still a terrier and acts like an idiot the first encounter with any dog I'm right there with the leash firmly attached and in most cases the dogs end up being friends.

so yes while I LOVE my dog, and I would be heart broken if anything like this happened to him, I also realize it's MY responsibility that he does not hurt anyone else human or animal, and by the same token I'm there to protect him if he needs help, which he actually needed once from an aggressive german shepperd and a totally ignorant owner.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
3,820
Points
0
As the owner of a 15 stone (210lb) St Bernard, with probably one of the most powerful bite forces of any dog, and a 10 stone (140lb) Pyrenean Mountain Dog (bred as pastoral guard dogs), who closely resembles a cross between a chainsaw and a woodchipper when she's angry, I wholeheartedly agree with the opinion that 100% of the responsibility is with the dog owner. However, there is also a great deal of irresponsible behaviour from other people towards dogs who are otherwise well controlled.

When walking Rosie & George, my wife and I tie a yellow ribbon to their lead (leash). This warning sign is becoming increasingly well known in England, and hopefully it will reach the point where everyone is educated as to its meaning.

Basically, it states "please don't approach my dog, as she/he may be old/ill/nervous/aggressive". The number of parents who allow their children to run up to dogs without asking permission or advice from the owner/walker is ridiculous.

Sorry, but if your child goes home with its head in a bag because you weren't responsible enough to check with me first, you're a retard.
 

barrybush

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
86
Points
0
It was the dog owners fault. Period. It was not the dogs fault. The UPS driver reacted. Most of us don't know how we will react when surprised.
 

hoosierhiver

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
12,325
Points
0
Could have been a girlscout instead of a grown man, then it might have been really tragic.
 

Doc_J

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
4,657
Points
38
Could have been a girlscout instead of a grown man, then it might have been really tragic.
Hmm.... I'm thinking if it had been a girlscout, the little dog would still have 2 good eyes, and the girl would have been fine.
 
Last edited:

stevepetergal

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
2,927
Points
0
Hmm.... I'm thinking if it had been a girlscout, the little dog would still have 2 good eyes, and the girl would have been fine.

I doubt a girl scout would have gone uninjured in this situation.
 

VegasGeorge

UU VIP
UU VIP
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
1,529
Points
48
I'm a dog owner, and have been all my life. So, I have some knowledge and experience with this kind of thing. Here is what I think:

1. It's the owner's responsibility to train his dog not to go after people in an aggressive way. Any dog can be trained to behave properly. Yes, training is expensive. If you can't afford it, don't own a dog.
2. It's the owner's responsibility to supervise his dog at all times. That means you know where your dog is, and what its doing. Sure, accidents happen, but that's no excuse.
3. People who are afraid of dogs should not work for UPS, FedEx, USPO, or have any other job that regularly brings them in contact with dogs. People like that have a responsibility to avoid other people's dogs, and to get psychological help.
4. Employers such as UPS have a responsibility to train their employees in specific methods for dealing with aggressive dogs. "Going back to the truck," simply doesn't get it.
5. The overwhelming number of dogs are not dangerous. But all dogs, unless trained otherwise, will act in a protective manner when strangers come onto their property. If a person can't tell the difference between a normally protective dog and a viciously aggressive dog, that person should get some training. Dogs are everywhere. Everyone needs to know how to deal with them.

Finally, a word about this particular incident. The UPS driver acted like an idiot. If he was actually afraid of the dog, the absolutely worst thing he could have done was bend down and extend his arm toward it as he did. If that dog had actually been a vicious animal, it would have torn his arm off. Even a small dog, given an open opportunity like that, could have ripped open a major artery and killed the guy.
 

coolkayaker1

New member
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
7,504
Points
0
Even a small dog, given an open opportunity like that, could have ripped open a major artery and killed the guy.

I appreciate, as a dog owner yourself, your taking the "overreaction to a harmless, small dog" angle out of this thread. Thank you, Vegas.

UPS driver attacks homeowner. Homeowner attacks UPS driver. Unrestrained dog attacks homeowner.

Those are not what happened. What happened is unrestrained dog attacks UPS driver.

To blame the UPS driver is like blaming a grandmother for smashing a purse-snatcher across the face with her pocketbook.

And if she blinds the purse-snatcher, so much the better.
 
Last edited: