Soprano Intonation

[Seths Cat]

I have a hand made soprano ukulele, since day one the intonation has been out, it's basically sharp on each string from fret seven up to twelve. Not that I play much between these frets but as its hand made I would have expected it to be pretty close or is this not always the case and too much to expect.

Put a new set of Aquila lava strings on three weeks ago and it's made a slight difference but it's still out.
Any thoughts.

 

[Renaissance-Man]

How's the action? Can you lower the saddle? Are the nut slots at the correct height?
Lastly, you could try making a compensated saddle that increases the string length a bit.

 

[Seths Cat]

Nut slots are fine and the action is around 2.5mm at the twelfth fret so all good on these.

 

[John Colter]

Have you measured the distance from the nut to the twelfth fret and compared it to the distance from the twelfth to the saddle? The latter should be about 3mm (1/8th ins) greater.

 

[Seths Cat]

No I have not made that check but thanks for the information, I'll compare the two measurements and see how it stacks up.

 

[rainbow21]

Inquiring about the obvious: Did you contact the builder and what was the response?

 

[Seths Cat]

No I didn't, I have had the uke for over a month now but only the last three weeks have I started to really play it and to be honest I changed the original strings to see if it helped and they have only just about settled in this last day or so.

 

[Graham Greenbag]

I have a hand made soprano ukulele, since day one the intonation has been out, it's basically sharp on each string from fret seven up to twelve. Not that I play much between these frets but as its hand made I would have expected it to be pretty close or is this not always the case and too much to expect.

Put a new set of Aquila lava strings on three weeks ago and it's made a slight difference but it's still out.
Any thoughts.

You seem to have struck very unlucky. I suspect that the best course for all concerned is for you to contact the builder and then ask for a return and refund, he’ll resell it to someone else who’s happy enough with the intonation.

For what it’s worth short scale instruments like Sopranos are difficult to get to intonate well up the neck; I‘ve changed strings, shaped saddles and moved bridges to get cheap instruments to work well for me. Of course strings can take some time to settle and sometimes rouge ones throw intonation out; and some string sets require more compensation at the saddle than others … perhaps a set of Martin M600’s might work better for you than the Lava’s.

Good luck.

 

[Oldscruggsfan]

I mis-read your OP. When you typed, "hand made", I presumed that meant "by you". Definitely reach out to the builder who should, at the very least, offer suggestions. Meanwhile, I suspect very few sopranos aren't at least a half-step sharp past fret 7. It's worth risking the minimal expense of having to buy a new saddle to remove the one that came with the uke & sand a bit (say a max of 0.5 mm) off the base. Believe it or not, that one step cured the initially poor intonation on my DIY kit soprano (my avatar). I just clamped the saddle base-up in a table vise with just a sliver above the jaws and carefully worked it with fine-grit paper wrapped around a sanding block. That successful correction (much improved intonation and no string buzz) caused such a rush of confidence that I ordered a new bison bone saddle and sanded its base down to the same height .

 

[Nickie]

I have a concert scale ukulele that has the same problem. Bad intonation from the 8th fret up. It was taken to a luthier after I finally became fed up with it. 2 luthiers toyed with it, and determined that the frets had been placed wrongly. There isn't a damn thing I can do, but not play it in public past the 7th fret.
It might not be a bad idea to check your fret placement.

 

[Seths Cat]

Thanks for that, your comments ref most sopranos may be sharp past the seventh fret is Interesting. It was a comment I was expecting or more to the point hoping for as I wish to keep the ukulele. I have a concert and tenor not the same builder and both have a slightly better intonation upto the twelfth fret.

 

[Graham Greenbag]

Thanks for that, your comments ref most sopranos may be sharp past the seventh fret is Interesting. It was a comment I was expecting or more to the point hoping for as I wish to keep the ukulele. I have a concert and tenor not the same builder and both have a slightly better intonation upto the twelfth fret.

IIRC you come from a guitar background and those long scales and high tension strings work differently than Sopranos. You might find these old threads helpful:

PSA: When in doubt, change your strings

Just a reminder, sometimes all you need is a string change. I have a Ken Timms that I purchased directly from Ken not too long ago. I own many ukes (too many, perhaps?) so I don't play it everyday. I happened to be playing it earlier in the week, and I felt it sounded "off." Intonation just...

forum.ukuleleunderground.com

All You Ken Timms Owners - STRINGS ??

I have recently received my Ken Timms Soprano Uke. Wow is it loud!...................almost uncomfortable. It came with Aquilas. To all you owners of this marvelous instrument, what has been your experience as to the best matching strings? I think I need to make a change.

forum.ukuleleunderground.com

 

[Seths Cat]

You remember correctly...
Yes guitars, mainly steel string but I do have nylon classical and flamenco guitars. So coming from this to ukues is different and to be honest I suspected the soprano getting sharp may something that basically is what it is with a soprano. It's not a big deal but I need to understand the instruments I own especially when they are new to me.

 

[Seths Cat]

Dare I ask as I know it's a personal thing,
What experiences have you guys had with switching strings on a Soprano.

 

[Doug W]

I have a Favilla soprano from the 50s. The intonation is good.

I also have an Aloha Hawaii Akai uke which is a soprano from the 1920s. The intonation on that one is not so good.

This is just to say that sopranos can have good intonation. It should be expected.

 

[cayuga red]

You seem to have struck very unlucky. I suspect that the best course for all concerned is for you to contact the builder and then ask for a return and refund, he’ll resell it to someone else who’s happy enough with the intonation.

For what it’s worth short scale instruments like Sopranos are difficult to get to intonate well up the neck; I‘ve changed strings, shaped saddles and moved bridges to get cheap instruments to work well for me. Of course strings can take some time to settle and sometimes rouge ones throw intonation out; and some string sets require more compensation at the saddle than others … perhaps a set of Martin M600’s might work better for you than the Lava’s.

Good luck.

I play a Martin 5K Soprano. I never have intonation issues. Plays like a dream.

 

[Oldscruggsfan]

Dare I ask as I know it's a personal thing,
What experiences have you guys had with switching strings on a Soprano.

My kit came with lousy, no-name bright white nylon strings. I first added a set of Martin M600’s. The A string shortly began fraying and eventually went dead. I then ordered a set of Fremont Black Lines which are far better from every perspective. A very nice UU member gifted me a single Pepe Romero wound Low G, which is a very nice string but (coming from a 5-string banjo background) I’m having a tough time getting used to it. When the Fremonts wear out, I intend to try Aquila Nylgut as an alternative to fluorocarbons. Nothing against Worths, just too pricey for me.

 

[Seths Cat]

Thanks for all your comments on this post much appreciated.
I need to do some further checks as advised by all of you and go from there.

 

[Graham Greenbag]

Dare I ask as I know it's a personal thing,
What experiences have you guys had with switching strings on a Soprano.

You remember correctly...
Yes guitars, mainly steel string but I do have nylon classical and flamenco guitars. So coming from this to ukues is different and to be honest I suspected the soprano getting sharp may something that basically is what it is with a soprano. It's not a big deal but I need to understand the instruments I own especially when they are new to me.

Sopranos can, in my experience, intonate perfectly adequately all the way up the neck but definitions of adequate vary. In my experience a Soprano can play fingerpicked music right up and down the neck and sound wonderful (check out Sam Muir). However, and as a lover of Sopranos I choke on saying this, a larger Uke is better for some things and a Soprano’s real strength lies in being a highly portable instrument on which to play percussive chords at the nut end of the neck to accompany singing - appropriate moderation of expectations leads to happiness. That’s my opinion and others might well disagree.

I‘ve used a small raft of moderately priced strings on Sopranos and string selection is a right ‘rabbit hole‘. My current favourite string is Aquila Super Nylgut but I don’t like some other Aquila strings. Martin M600’s have worked well for me - at one time I used to fit them to everything - and Fremont Blacklines can be good too but they are harder to find in the UK. I like the sound that some nylon strings give but their intonation, particularly on the C string, can be a problem so I suggest that you steer clear of them for now. String settling time and imperfections in a particular string in a set (throwing out intonation on that string) is a problematic area.

I’ve learnt quite a lot off of Ken Timms‘s posts and videos, judging by his many happy buyers here he’s doing a lot of stuff right and I thank him for sharing his knowledge. Here’s one of his videos on fitting Bridges:

 

[Seths Cat]

Basically as I play guitars and some are nylon instruments of which are luthier made they all have excellent intonation and I know we cant compare guitars with ukuleles.
My background is not ukuleles so I need a starting point to the intonation findings on this soprano.
I dont want to be chasing something that on a Soprano is not possible to achieve and if that was the feedback then I would complety accept it and move on.
I do like things to be correct and feel I have to try to get the best instrument I can hence the post. Obviously if this was an issue regarding a guitar there would be no question in my mind to what the outcome would be as this is where I am comfortable in my knowledge.

Thanks again to all.