Uke Like the Pros Questionable Business Practices

[jkib]

Terry posts pictures of many, if not most, of the ukulele's he sells. Since he has become a dealer for Kala and many other brands in the last year or so, it may have become an overwhelming task to post pics of every instrument he has at his store. But if you, as a buyer, would like to look at a specific model that does not have exact pics posted, you have a choice to purchase that option. Someone has to take the pics, process photos, then post them. That someone would probably expect to get paid for this work, as I would. Maybe it would take him away from other work that needs done. All these photos take time to shoot and process, and that cost is probably absorbed into the profit margin of the instrument. The lower end models probably have very little profit margins, so to take the manpower to process photos may not be worth the added cost. Therefore, you as a buyer may choose that option at a cost to you if you so desire. This, and many other such things add to the cost of doing business, and I highly doubt that every other shop takes specific pics of every mass produced $199 ukulele.
I know that ULTP business has expanded greatly in the last year or so such that Terry moved his business, some from home, to an office building to accommodate additional instrument storage, hiring full time luthiers, expanding video lessons and people to handle editing, ect. So maybe in the process there is some growing pains to work out.
I've probably bought a half dozen uke's from him and he's always been good and up front, taking care of issue's when I've had them. He has a large following with his classes, and invites many high profile entertainers in the ukulele community. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with him, like we all have had with various business's at one time or another. Make your complaint to the business and try to work things out, and leave a review for others. You have the option to do business else where.
What bothers me as I read through this thread, and I hate to see this forum degrade to that point, is where we trash someone's character and make statements that they run a deceptive business operation because of a few bad experiences; when hundreds of others have had just the opposite.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, and yes...we learn from good and bad experiences that we can share. Let's just refrain from the character assassination on this forum.

 

[badhabits]

I almost forgot….I also bought a uke for my Dad From ULTP. The one I wanted had been sold out everywhere but Terry said there was one in his possession that had just been returned from a Consumer who decided to spend a couple hundred more for a K brand instead. It had never been used (or even taken out of the box) but was set up and ready to go for the first Buyer. He still charged me for a special setup eventhough it had been done and paid for by the first person and wasn’t needed. I paid it because my Dad was looking forward to getting a decent uke and there were none like it anywhere else.

That's ridiculous.

 

[kkimura]

It had never been used (or even taken out of the box) but was set up and ready to go for the first Buyer.

How does one setup a ukulele without taking it out of the box?

"He still charged me for a special setup eventhough it had been done and paid for by the first person and wasn’t needed."

May be the "first" setup wasn't actually done? (See above comment)

 

[Dohle]

Terry posts pictures of many, if not most, of the ukulele's he sells. Since he has become a dealer for Kala and many other brands in the last year or so, it may have become an overwhelming task to post pics of every instrument he has at his store. But if you, as a buyer, would like to look at a specific model that does not have exact pics posted, you have a choice to purchase that option. Someone has to take the pics, process photos, then post them. That someone would probably expect to get paid for this work, as I would. Maybe it would take him away from other work that needs done. All these photos take time to shoot and process, and that cost is probably absorbed into the profit margin of the instrument. The lower end models probably have very little profit margins, so to take the manpower to process photos may not be worth the added cost. Therefore, you as a buyer may choose that option at a cost to you if you so desire. This, and many other such things add to the cost of doing business, and I highly doubt that every other shop takes specific pics of every mass produced $199 ukulele.
I know that ULTP business has expanded greatly in the last year or so such that Terry moved his business, some from home, to an office building to accommodate additional instrument storage, hiring full time luthiers, expanding video lessons and people to handle editing, ect. So maybe in the process there is some growing pains to work out.
I've probably bought a half dozen uke's from him and he's always been good and up front, taking care of issue's when I've had them. He has a large following with his classes, and invites many high profile entertainers in the ukulele community. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with him, like we all have had with various business's at one time or another. Make your complaint to the business and try to work things out, and leave a review for others. You have the option to do business else where.
What bothers me as I read through this thread, and I hate to see this forum degrade to that point, is where we trash someone's character and make statements that they run a deceptive business operation because of a few bad experiences; when hundreds of others have had just the opposite.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, and yes...we learn from good and bad experiences that we can share. Let's just refrain from the character assassination on this forum.

Many people have had good experiences with ULTP, many have not. You can't have a discussion about these issues if you just limit yourself to dealing with the business directly and leaving a review. That's what this forum is for.

Also regarding the photo issue and the ridiculous ULTP VIP offering. No one expects a shop to have individual photos of every low to mid-end uke on their website (even though some shops actually have). However, you can call or email any one of these other shops people have recommended and ask them to send photos of the uke you'd want. For free. That's the standard many people have come to expect from proper uke/music shops. Charging for those photos is nonsense. End of.

 

[tluxtele]

The market, as it were, is also open to comments and criticism and discussion, all of which we are utilizing at this very moment. For many, ULTP isn't offering much value for money and are diverting attention to other established uke shops that offer a better service with less or no money. That's the free market of ideas for you. Deal with it.

I agree. I've shared my thoughts in the free market of ideas. Deal with it.

I really don't mean this as a smart aleck. I know voice inflection can't come across in the written word so know I'm seriously asking this with an inquisitive mind and a humble tone. If he isn't offering much value for the money how is he diverting attention from other established uke shops that offer a better service for less or no money? It honestly sounds to me that these other shops aren't that established or they need to do a better job advertising and getting the word out about their products and services.

I almost forgot….I also bought a uke for my Dad From ULTP. The one I wanted had been sold out everywhere but Terry said there was one in his possession that had just been returned from a Consumer who decided to spend a couple hundred more for a K brand instead. It had never been used (or even taken out of the box) but was set up and ready to go for the first Buyer. He still charged me for a special setup eventhough it had been done and paid for by the first person and wasn’t needed. I paid it because my Dad was looking forward to getting a decent uke and there were none like it anywhere else.

I'm going to say what you said, only differently to make sure I understand what happened because it leads to a question I have.

Person A bought a uke and paid extra to have it setup. Person A decided they didn't want that uke so they returned it without opening it so they could get a more expensive uke. You wanted this exact uke and were charged for a special setup. On the surface that sounds like he's squeezing every last dime out, but this is where my question comes in.

When Person A was refunded (or given credit to a more expensive uke) were they refunded everything except the cost of the setup? If they were, then yes, ULTP charged two people for one setup. But if they were refunded, then it hadn't been paid for by them. Just like the uke hadn't been paid for by them because they returned it and were refunded the total. Even if they weren't refunded their entire amount, it's not uncommon for businesses to charge a restocking fee to pay for the time put into boxing up and shipping an item.

So, serious and humble question, do you know if they were refunded the whole amount minus the setup?

Regardless, this sounds like a situation of supply and demand. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. He had what you couldn't find anywhere else. Supply was low, demand was high and it was worth it for you to pay the amount you did.

You're a savvy buyer. Unfortunately, not everyone else is. And yes, it's quite clear he is trying to make extra cash, charging for services that others provide for free. Smart business? Nickel and diming? I guess it depends on your perspective.

I personally don't think it's smart business on his part, but I don't know what he's dealing with. Time will tell if it works for him.

 

[rainbow21]

I now make many decisions based on reviews and recommendations from people I will never meet. Yelp a restaurant or a plumber. Read Amazon reviews on books. Plan a trip based on Tripadvisor feedback...

But the closer someone is, the more weight it carries. Someone that I know tells me about a restaurant experience and I weigh it heavily versus a review from a pseudonym. Same with familiarity of this forum. I am familiar with many repeat posters and learn to trust some more than others. Their experiences and feedback help me make some important decisions (like which uke to consider buying).

I want to know whether a seller is recommended from the good people here. Sharing a good experience is good for the seller and the buyers.

But I really really want to know about a bad seller and the negative experiences others have had. Caveat emptor is not a good enough response when offering good reasons to look elsewhere is available. So a seller lists a price that is almost double what is available elsewhere is something that should be shared.

So I bought a 25th anniversary Red Label KoAloha from a wonderful seller for about $2500. They held it for me after a subsequent buyer wanted it. They emailed me regarding the setup and suggested a different action than I first requested (and were correct!). I inquired about strings, and they changed the strings to Uke Logic for free! (!!!!!!) So I would buy from TUS/HMS again and again (and have, lol).

I saw a similar ukulele (25th RL) on another site for $4000. WHAT?! And to request a given action will require $55 more. And so I search another wonderful seller, and she has it listed at about $2500 (with setup included). So yeah, I consider it almost required to point out that I would not consider buying from ULTP with such price gouging. Could you imagine not being aware of its actual "MSRP" and paying $1500 more? Then getting hit again on a resale attempt and finding that you would lose 50% or $2000 if you wanted to sell it to get something else?

So this thread is spot on! Share your good and bad experiences to help give others a more complete picture to make a decision.

 

[ukuevey]

More Terry BS. I've purchased two ukuleles off of Reverb and had no issues whatsoever. You read the descriptions carefully, examine the photos in detail, and lay your money down. Yeah, there's always a chance of a bad deal, but it's certainly no worse than eBay (and probably even better, since most of the sellers are actual dealers.)

WHOA! I was pricing oasis strings on reverb. ULTP has 250 listings on reverb, strings AND ukes! What is this guy trying to pull??

 

[Dohle]

I agree. I've shared my thoughts in the free market of ideas. Deal with it.

I really don't mean this as a smart aleck. I know voice inflection can't come across in the written word so know I'm seriously asking this with an inquisitive mind and a humble tone. If he isn't offering much value for the money how is he diverting attention from other established uke shops that offer a better service for less or no money? It honestly sounds to me that these other shops aren't that established or they need to do a better job advertising and getting the word out about their products and services.

I'm not here to argue about the matter since it's still a matter of opinion. If someone thinks the business practices of ULTP are fine or can be easily ignored or what have you then sure, you can have that opinion. I'm just continually perplexed by comments saying that you should indeed just ignore and not discuss it, or something to that effect. And here I'm not talking about you specifically.

Also, I wouldn't say Terry is diverting attention from other shops per se but he is pushing his shop up in search results and ads as he clearly seems to have nailed down search engine optimization and marketing. Since I - and many others - think that other businesses (that maybe don't have as much marketing budget or knowledge) offer far better service I simply think it's important to let people know about better alternatives. Aside from criticising bad business practices, it's not really much more complicated than that.

 

[Ren_]

How does one setup a ukulele without taking it out of the box?

"He still charged me for a special setup eventhough it had been done and paid for by the first person and wasn’t needed."

May be the "first" setup wasn't actually done? (See above comment)

Maybe I didn’t explain it well. When I called he said I was in luck because they just set this uke up for another Customer and delivered it to them. Before it made it to its destination the Customer decided to pay a couple hundred more for a K Brand uke instead. It was returned to ULTP without the Customer opening the box. ULTP had set up the uke and delivered it. I was also charged for the setup when it was already done and paid for by the first person.

 

[Ren_]

I agree. I've shared my thoughts in the free market of ideas. Deal with it.

I really don't mean this as a smart aleck. I know voice inflection can't come across in the written word so know I'm seriously asking this with an inquisitive mind and a humble tone. If he isn't offering much value for the money how is he diverting attention from other established uke shops that offer a better service for less or no money? It honestly sounds to me that these other shops aren't that established or they need to do a better job advertising and getting the word out about their products and services.

I'm going to say what you said, only differently to make sure I understand what happened because it leads to a question I have.

Person A bought a uke and paid extra to have it setup. Person A decided they didn't want that uke so they returned it without opening it so they could get a more expensive uke. You wanted this exact uke and were charged for a special setup. On the surface that sounds like he's squeezing every last dime out, but this is where my question comes in.

When Person A was refunded (or given credit to a more expensive uke) were they refunded everything except the cost of the setup? If they were, then yes, ULTP charged two people for one setup. But if they were refunded, then it hadn't been paid for by them. Just like the uke hadn't been paid for by them because they returned it and were refunded the total. Even if they weren't refunded their entire amount, it's not uncommon for businesses to charge a restocking fee to pay for the time put into boxing up and shipping an item.

So, serious and humble question, do you know if they were refunded the whole amount minus the setup?

Regardless, this sounds like a situation of supply and demand. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. He had what you couldn't find anywhere else. Supply was low, demand was high and it was worth it for you to pay the amount you did.

I personally don't think it's smart business on his part, but I don't know what he's dealing with. Time will tell if it works for him.

That’s a good question. When I asked he didn’t tell me that. He just answered yes that it was already paid for by the first person and that I too had to pay it. I thought it was weird to charge two people but like you said, I wanted it as a gift and he had it. i was already an established customer so it felt weird to me but I can see your point as well. Thanks for that perspective.

 

[jkib]

Many people have had good experiences with ULTP, many have not. You can't have a discussion about these issues if you just limit yourself to dealing with the business directly and leaving a review. That's what this forum is for.

Also regarding the photo issue and the ridiculous ULTP VIP offering. No one expects a shop to have individual photos of every low to mid-end uke on their website (even though some shops actually have). However, you can call or email any one of these other shops people have recommended and ask them to send photos of the uke you'd want. For free. That's the standard many people have come to expect from proper uke/music shops. Charging for those photos is nonsense. End of.

I understand what you are saying, and I would probably tell them politely, "I'll then take my business elsewhere." Eventually that business may loose enough sales to change their way of how they do business.
Is this a smart way of doing business? Probably not, but I don't know the full circumstances of why they are doing this. Does it mean they are a shady business because they do this, or that Terry's dealings are questionable because of this. I would have to say no. I would have to see a consistent pattern of negative reviews to draw that conclusion.

 

[Cadia]

Many people have had good experiences with ULTP, many have not. You can't have a discussion about these issues if you just limit yourself to dealing with the business directly and leaving a review. That's what this forum is for.

Also regarding the photo issue and the ridiculous ULTP VIP offering. No one expects a shop to have individual photos of every low to mid-end uke on their website (even though some shops actually have). However, you can call or email any one of these other shops people have recommended and ask them to send photos of the uke you'd want. For free. That's the standard many people have come to expect from proper uke/music shops. Charging for those photos is nonsense. End of.

Agree 100%.

 

[don_b]

Very rarely are the videos really informative, though. The playing style doesn't show off the uke's capabilities very well, and the "Firemeter" thing means absolutely nothing.

I didn’t know there was a firemeter and now I want to watch all of the videos. Instead, is there a video where the use of the firemeter is most interesting?

 

[don_b]

I’m not the board boss but I feel like we’ve made our point on this guy… maybe we sticky this one? I must say I am pleased with the way this particular thread about Terry has gone. I am all for threads critical of business practices. In the past, these sort of things have sort of devolved into just making fun of the guy on a personal level, as though he isn’t being the same YouTube jackass 95% of the rest of the YouTube population is being. Nice job on this one everybody. Way to keep focused on the business and not the man’s video style, for the most part.

 

[Cadia]

Does it mean they are a shady business because they do this, or that Terry's dealings are questionable because of this. I would have to say no. I would have to see a consistent pattern of negative reviews to draw that conclusion.

If he isn't offering much value for the money how is he diverting attention from other established uke shops that offer a better service for less or no money? It honestly sounds to me that these other shops aren't that established or they need to do a better job advertising and getting the word out about their products and services.

Then you would not be hesitant to buy from him. There have been enough negative experiences posted here by actual buyers to keep me away from buying from him. These involved damaged and/or defective ukes that he would not make good on, or stand by the products that he sold once they're out the door and he has the money. I would have been extremely unhappy, and angry, if I had these kinds of business dealings with him. As a customer who is not one of his many newbies he attracts, if I spent over $1000 on a new uke I would expect it to be up to a certain standard. Perfect, actually. I certainly wouldn't expect it to arrive damaged or severely flawed, and if so, I'd want to return it - without additional fees because it honestly shouldn't have been sent to begin with without a heads-up. His customer service track record is poor, judging from several of the bad dealings posted here, and comparing my own experiences with other good retailers.

These other shops are well established, more so than ULTP, but they choose to have some class about how they conduct their business. Their customer service has been excellent and beyond reproach, and word of mouth experiences on sites like this and FB help encourage more happy buyers their way. Terry is trying to jump in front of every other competitor, like a spoiled kid needing everone's attention, yelling "look at me, look at me!" and divert all the attention to him. Concerning offering value, I had wanted a Rebel Pluto when they came out. They were pricy, I couldn't afford it at the time, so I waited. Since only 10 were produced, each one a little different. It wasn't long before they were all gone. I put it out of my mind, but then I got to wanting one again and started searching. Lo and behold, ULTP had one posted, but at a greatly inflated price. He seems really good at holding on to limited edition ukes until the series is gone, and then inflating the prices above MSRP. I almost went for it, but it didn't have the fretboard I preferred. I also didn't like all the additional fees that would be added to the already very high price. And would the setup be as perfect as my TUS ukes were? Later experiences posted here told me no, setup was an issue with ULTP, in spite of his high charges. Eventually I found the exact one I wanted on Reverb (thank you, eyedoc), and had a seamless salesbuying experience. I had also bought my Kanile'a KSR-T Premium through Reverb, and received another perfect uke. So his video that bashes Reverb as a bad, unsafe place to buy ukes really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[MarTay6]

Anyway, this is a recent video I found warning about some issues you may find buying stuff off Reverb:

Wow... does he ever look like a used car salesman/snake oil salesman/con artist in that video!

 

[MarTay6]

I found this to be an interesting thread. I bought my first high-end Uke from Terry, and was somewhat bothered by his various levels of "setup's" and associated charges. And, as time has gone on- and I have learned more about various dealers and their practices and offerings, I will be avoiding ULTP in the future, though I DID just purchase a upscale Concert Uke Bag from him as I caught it with his 4th of July free shipping offer, so I didn't pay any extra for anything.
It does bother me how seriously he does try to upsell EVERYTHING on every product page...
I have learned and am supporting others- I'm a new player, just into Ukes the last 7-8 months or so, takes a while to learn my way around! Just have a new Kiwaya KPC-1M Concert coming from Matt- at World of Ukes- and have purchased from Mim's and a few dealers in Hawaii... also directly from Enya, all have been good experiences, so will say bye-bye to UTLP!

 

[Wukulele]

"Another troubling thing that was brought up is that Terry Carter is now calling himself a life coach and charging for services including trying to get people to invest in real-estate. Apparently he has sent out info about this in his ukulele email list."

Can someone please post the life coach / real-estate email ?

I’ve seen the ULTP/Terry whatever-his-name-is real-estate crap. Just came here to say that. Might have taken a screen shot but no way I’m gonna look for it again.

Also, I dislike his playing. It lacks nuance & mucisianship.
Also, outsourcing & adding surcharges to instrument set-up is a total deal breaker… not that I’d want him to touch my instrument for set-up, based on so much of what I’ve seen (even while I do my best to look away, steer clear)

 

[Wukulele]

I’ve managed to buy NINE Romero instruments without involving ULTP.
I would be wary of buying any used instrument that passed thru this shop.

hard stop.

 

[Kenn2018]

Like all people and businesses, Terry & ULTP are neither all-bad, nor all-good. I was turned off by his videos when I first saw them, but there are some other teachers & videos that I don't relate to either. Terry's instruction books are okay. They're intended to compliment his courses. But work as stand-alones.

I do think that his business practices leave a lot to be desired. All of his up-charges totally turned me off. And now his silly VIP scams are just repulsive. He knows that with volume he will find a few gullible people who will fall for them. He plays the numbers games like most unethical business people do. He's riding the wave of ukulele popularity right now.

I'll react with my wallet. And spread the word as much as I can without moving into libel or defamation territory.