Very poor acoustics!

[Nickie]

Help, we have a new client that keeps us pretty busy and pays on time. The audience seems to love us.
However, the room has a very high ceiling and the acoustics are horrible.Last night we did a show there and it seemed worse than ever. All I could hear were echos, bouncing everywhere. The audience says we sound fine. But I was confused, I felt off key, voice and instruments, distorted like. The tambourine next to me about drove me nuts. We don't use monitors, i know we should, but external ones might add to the problem. I've started looking at head mounted monitors (need to be wireless) but I am so unwise about this.
Any suggestions?
Oh, yeah, I'm being treated for hearing loss, buildup of fluid. But I don't say Huh? unless somone is mumbling or speaking behind me.

 

[Bill Sheehan]

Help, we have a new client that keeps us pretty busy and pays on time. The audience seems to love us.
However, the room has a very high ceiling and the acoustics are horrible.Last night we did a show there and it seemed worse than ever. All I could hear were echos, bouncing everywhere. The audience says we sound fine. But I was confused, I felt off key, voice and instruments, distorted like. The tambourine next to me about drove me nuts. We don't use monitors, i know we should, but external ones might add to the problem. I've started looking at head mounted monitors (need to be wireless) but I am so unwise about this.
Any suggestions?
Oh, yeah, I'm being treated for hearing loss, buildup of fluid. But I don't say Huh? unless somone is mumbling or speaking behind me.

Hi Nickie, what type of setting are we talking about-- retirement home, restaurant/bar...?

 

[rustydusty]

I have my first appointment with an audiologist in about a week. When I am playing with our band, I have a hard time hearing myself, even with monitors. A big part of the problem is other noise (other band members) often overpower my hearing. It hasn't been a big issue yet, but can become one in the future. I'm not sure how a hearing aid can help this but we shall see. (At 70 years old, I am not ready for this!)

 

[Nickie]

Hi Nickie, what type of setting are we talking about-- retirement home, restaurant/bar...?

This is an ALF, assisted living facility.

 

[Nickie]

Hi Nickie, what type of setting are we talking about-- retirement home, restaurant/bar...?

My ears are over 70 years old as well. I don't have tinnitus, but I do hear a hum or whoosh a lot now. I just had a hearing test, and am getting another balance test too, because I "fall" a lot, never hit the ground.
We did a show today, in a large lobby, where the acoustics were better, but not great. We could not hear each other. And we did a thorough sound check.
We discussed the possibility of in ear monitors. I don't thnk they will stay in my ears, my ipad earbuds fall out all the time. I just don't know what to do.

 

[Arcy]

We discussed the possibility of in ear monitors. I don't thnk they will stay in my ears, my ipad earbuds fall out all the time. I just don't know what to do.

iPad earbuds will very differently from in-ear monitors.

If you can't get a decent IEM fit off of the shelf you can get custom fit models. If you're already working with an audiologist or ENT, bring it up with them. There is a large technology overlap between hearing aids and IEMs.

Hearing aids and IEMs solving essentially the same problems, just with slightly different audio sources. With the current state of the tech many hearing aids can double as IEMs and IEMs can double as hearing aids by connecting to phone based hearing apps (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082 ) . We're not far from hearing aids commodifying to the level that eye-glasses are at.

 

[Bill Sheehan]

Nickie, sorry to ask for more detail if you might have already discussed your setup in a previous thread, but can you talk a little bit about your group-- How many members? Do you have a bass player? Do you "mic up" your ukes, versus using pickups and plugging in? How many vocal mics are involved? What kind of PA and speakers are you using?

 

[anthonyg]

There are things that can be experimented with in regard to room acoustics.
Firstly, room corners are BAD news. Totally avoid corners if you can.
Secondly, try setting up just slightly out of parallel with any wall behind you and same goes for any front of house speakers.
Something that may cost a little money is to have some kind of stand mounted background for the group that has a blanket underneath to absorb some reflected sounds.

 

[VegasGeorge]

I think you're probably hearing your sound being bounced back at you. You really can't do much in someone else's hall about the fixed acoustics. But you can change your position relative to the speakers you're using. I'd move them around a bit, and see if that doesn't help.

 

[Bill Sheehan]

The "high ceiling" factor that Nickie mentioned can be a real challenge. Last year a buddy and I did several "duo" gigs at a local supermarket, formerly known as County Market and now known as Harvest Market. They have a coffee bar integrated into their layout, which is really nice, and they feature a Sunday brunch with live music. But it's just a huge place, with REALLY high ceilings, and frankly it's an acoustical nightmare to play in! We were never real happy with our sound at that venue, but sometimes all you can really do is just grin and bear it!

 

[Brad Bordessa]

sometimes all you can really do is just grin and bear it!

Unfortunately, this is most often the case.

Make sure you're not adding reverb/delay to any instruments or vocals as this will just wash things out more. Make sure certain frequencies aren't building up. (Is it woofy and muddy sounding? There might be too much uke at 2-300hz.)

Also, don't try and push the sound too loud. The louder your play, the crappier a bad room will sound. Never fails. Monitors always end up being way louder than you expect by the time you can hear yourself over a crowd. So while it might seem like a good idea, it can easily add to the problem.

While playing, I find that it helps to pick a reference location to listen to/from. In a bad room, listening to the general sound around me is unhelpful. So I try to find a place where I can hear better by listening to a very specific location. Especially without monitors, I'll turn my head to pick up the reflected sound from a certain wall - or even listen to my voice on the mic grill - and focus on that. Totally depends on the situation and it's kind of intuitive. But even just focusing your attention on only listening to the sound coming from the left wall can be very helpful. Close your eyes.

 

[Gerald_G]

Have you considered spot monitors? Basically a tiny monitor that goes on you mic stand. They can be pretty useful. They pack small, and don't require the sound guy to control a monitor mix, just goes inline (usually) with the mic. I think the one in the stock photo uses 1/4 jacks, but the one my group uses has XLR connections. Has it's own volume setting.

 

[Nickie]

Nickie, sorry to ask for more detail if you might have already discussed your setup in a previous thread, but can you talk a little bit about your group-- How many members? Do you have a bass player? Do you "mic up" your ukes, versus using pickups and plugging in? How many vocal mics are involved? What kind of PA and speakers are you using?

We're a quartet. We stand/sit in a pretty straight line. Ukuleles, including Ubass are amped through pickups. No two are the same, LOL.
4 vocal mics, one uses a headset mic.
We use a Yamaha powered speaker system, or a small Fender PA, depending on the room size.
We use no monitors at this time.

 

[Nickie]

Have you considered spot monitors? Basically a tiny monitor that goes on you mic stand. They can be pretty useful. They pack small, and don't require the sound guy to control a monitor mix, just goes inline (usually) with the mic. I think the one in the stock photo uses 1/4 jacks, but the one my group uses has XLR connections. Has it's own volume setting.


View attachment 139217

We had not considered such a device, because we've never seen it before. Thanks!

 

[Bill Sheehan]

We're a quartet. We stand/sit in a pretty straight line. Ukuleles, including Ubass are amped through pickups. No two are the same, LOL.
4 vocal mics, one uses a headset mic.
We use a Yamaha powered speaker system, or a small Fender PA, depending on the room size.
We use no monitors at this time.

Nickie, looking at your personnel lineup, I have to ask: did you fire the tambourine player? Just kidding!!!!
Seriously, I'm wondering (and maybe our friends here can chime in on this) if perhaps having the ukes amplified via pickups (rather than mic'd up) might be contributing to a collective sense of distortion or harshness, especially in a "high-ceilinged" room? So I'm curious as to whether your overall presentation might "breathe" a little better if you utilized a couple of decent-quality condenser mics (two performers gathered around each mic). Unless you're playing in a noisy bar-type setting, this can be a really nice way to go. It's even possible that the condenser mics would handle not only the instruments, but also the vocals, thus simplifying your setup immensely. If Brad doesn't mind my saying so, he is probably very qualified, through experience, to give you some additional thoughts on this.

 

[Brad Bordessa]

Nickie, looking at your personnel lineup, I have to ask: did you fire the tambourine player? Just kidding!!!!
Seriously, I'm wondering (and maybe our friends here can chime in on this) if perhaps having the ukes amplified via pickups (rather than mic'd up) might be contributing to a collective sense of distortion or harshness, especially in a "high-ceilinged" room? So I'm curious as to whether your overall presentation might "breathe" a little better if you utilized a couple of decent-quality condenser mics (two performers gathered around each mic). Unless you're playing in a noisy bar-type setting, this can be a really nice way to go. It's even possible that the condenser mics would handle not only the instruments, but also the vocals, thus simplifying your setup immensely. If Brad doesn't mind my saying so, he is probably very qualified, through experience, to give you some additional thoughts on this.

I'm not the boss! Say whatever you like.

Condensers are a good thought and I love the few times I've been able to use them. However, I would never consider using them in a space that is already problematic. Odds are they will feedback like crazy and probably end up amplifying the room noisy even more (they're very sensitive by the time they're loud enough for their ideal use). Just my experience.

@Nickie :

I would really like to hear a recording of your band playing in this space. Without it we can only give vague suggestions, but hearing it (and seeing the setup) could very well inform somebody to share the perfect tip that will help you hear better. Or at least be a reality check for how bad it is (sometimes the sound just sucks even after you've done all you can).

You messaged me about in-ears, but that seems like a very overkill solution when you should be able to fix the root cause of the problem. Being able to provide good, sustainable sound is part of being professional. You shouldn't need to spend $500+ on in-ears just for you to hear yourself with three other instruments. Something is wrong.

 

[Nickie]

I'm not the boss! Say whatever you like.

Condensers are a good thought and I love the few times I've been able to use them. However, I would never consider using them in a space that is already problematic. Odds are they will feedback like crazy and probably end up amplifying the room noisy even more (they're very sensitive by the time they're loud enough for their ideal use). Just my experience.

@Nickie :

I would really like to hear a recording of your band playing in this space. Without it we can only give vague suggestions, but hearing it (and seeing the setup) could very well inform somebody to share the perfect tip that will help you hear better. Or at least be a reality check for how bad it is (sometimes the sound just sucks even after you've done all you can).

You messaged me about in-ears, but that seems like a very overkill solution when you should be able to fix the root cause of the problem. Being able to provide good, sustainable sound is part of being professional. You shouldn't need to spend $500+ on in-ears just for you to hear yourself with three other instruments. Something is wrong.

We very seldom record, and have only done so once during a gig, outdoors. It would require a 5th person to manage the camera, and we don't have one.
But I'll bring it up to the others if need be. right now, we seem to have a solution. I pm'd you about it.

 

[Kenn2018]

Have you considered spot monitors? Basically a tiny monitor that goes on you mic stand. They can be pretty useful. They pack small, and don't require the sound guy to control a monitor mix, just goes inline (usually) with the mic. I think the one in the stock photo uses 1/4 jacks, but the one my group uses has XLR connections. Has it's own volume setting.


View attachment 139217

Gerald what brand is your spot monitor? And where did you get it?
I tried searching for them and didn't have much success. Though I probably wasn't searching in the right places.

 

[plunker]

Sorry about the hearing issue, hope you can get some help with it. Old age is not for cowards. Sorry but can't help on the acoustics question, as I am ignorant beyond belief. When I hear
"acoustics", my mind goes back to the band room in high school covered with egg crates. Hope you get it all worked out. Wow regular and pays. cant be beat.

 

[Nickie]

Thanks plunker. I had another hearing test today. My stats were back up in the normal range. I did notice that I can hear the bass player better now. But I hafta go in every 4 months now, to have my ears cleaned out.
I still hack up junk every day, but not as bad. i think the air pollution may be getting to me.
The Doc recommended Tai Chi for my poor balance.
And she said they detected no abnormal growth in my brain. (Some of my friends might not believe that.)