What makes playability so variable on similar ukes?

[Bill_McNeil]

I have two tenor ukes: a Pono MT and a Cordoba 21T. The Pono is significantly more forgiving to play. Both are low G. Same scale length at 17". Same action at 2.25mm. String tension seems the same. These issues have been the same regardless of the various fluorocarbon strings I've used on either one. All these similarities, yet something is very different in terms of playability.

To explain, the Cordoba feels like it requires significantly more pressure for barre chords. It is far more likely to buzz or not sound the note if I don't get the pressure just so. Similarly, with standard fretting the Cordoba is far more likely to buzz with less than perfect finger placement. It is also more likely to buzz if I go too slowly as I press down or and remove my fingertips from the fretboard. It's not specific to any place on the fretboard; it's very uniform. Don't get me wrong, with good fretting, the tone is very good and it has a little more volume than the Pono and a fun, ragged quality. With increased practice, I'm getting better at getting reliable results. It's just so much more finicky than the Pono despite the identical action.

I'm far enough along on my ukulele journey that I notice these differences very much as I go back and forth between the two instruments. But I don't have any understanding of what makes them so different. Can someone explain it to me? Do experienced players get so precise they can handle the differences that I'm describing without caring? Is what I'm describing on the Cordoba unacceptable? Can it be improved?

As always, thanks for your help on my journey!

 

[Jan D]

Do the two ukes have the same neck shape and size? Does your thumb generally rest at about the same location on the two necks? Are the fret bars the same height on both ukuleles? If differences exist, they might be impacting your hand positioning and/or the playability of the uke.

 

[70sSanO]

My first thought is string height at the nut. If it is too high, it will require more pressure regardless of the string height at 12th fret being the same.

John

 

[KohanMike]

There are many factors for the sound and feel of a wood body string instrument. One is that wood used in an acoustic instrument is not consistent like metal would be, each piece was living and still reacts to the environment it's in, even the exact same species. This goes for all the wood parts, top, back, sides, neck, fretboard, support strips inside, bridge. Add to that the material of the nut and saddle, usually bone, another 'live' material. Then the strings, which also are affected by the environment, fingering pressure. Also, as was mentioned, the shape of the neck, plus and the way the builder nuances all of it.

In the nine plus years I've been playing ukes, and the almost fifty previous years of playing guitar, I've found that even the exact same instrument doesn't sound or feel the same as each other. I've even compared side-by-side my $380 Kala solid cedar top when I bought it, to a $1200 Kamaka and Kohaloa, and fond it to hold it's own very well with them.

 

[ukulelekarcsi]

If playability is about what I would call 'feel' (rather than 'sound'), then the neck profile (wideness, thickness, taper) and the headstock angle come to mind as the biggest factors. Fret size and fretboard material would be right behind them on the list.

 

[Pirate Jim]

The Cordoba tenor I had had a very high action at the nut, I needed to sand it down before it was comfortable to play. Thin fret wires would be another obvious one - with chunky frets you can be a bit less accurate in your playing, they're more forgiving I find.

 

[Jeanpaul]

My first thought is string height at the nut. If it is too high, it will require more pressure regardless of the string height at 12th fret being the same.

John

The Cordoba tenor I had had a very high action at the nut, I needed to sand it down before it was comfortable to play. Thin fret wires would be another obvious one - with chunky frets you can be a bit less accurate in your playing, they're more forgiving I find.

My question is how high should it be for generally enough playability?

Thanks,
Jean

 

[merlin666]

Action is one element that can be adjusted at the saddle. More important may be relief (curvature) of the neck, which on steel string guitars usually can be adjusted with the truss rod. But with most ukes relief can not be changed. Google will tell you how to measure.

 

[Pirate Jim]

My question is how high should it be for generally enough playability?

Thanks,
Jean

My general approach at the nut is to get it high enough to not buzz - bit of trial and error (sand a bit, test, sand again, test, etc.) and leaving a little safety margin in case I want to put different gauges of strings on there later. There's something about fretting at the 5th or 7th or something and still being able to fit a business card between the strings and first fret but I've never been so scientific in my approach. I want enough height at the saddle to be able to really dig in with no buzzing and just enough height at the nut to avoid buzzing on the open string. I see folks on these boards talking about action height to within fractions of a millimetre so I'll let them chime in with exact measurements and things!

 

[70sSanO]

The first indication of strings too high at the nut is to fret the strings at the first fret and see if the notes are sharper than played open. Obviously you’ll need to use a tuner. Even if the height is not this bad it doesn’t mean the strings can’t be lowered.

For a tenor, I’ll fret at the 3rd fret and see how high the strings are above the first fret. I’ve heard of using a business card, but usually hardly any clearance. I used to lower it so the string touched, but over time I imagine nut slots wear a couple thousandths of an inch.

So far no buzzing issues and I tend to run my tenor strings lower than 2.25mm.

John

 

[don_b]

Depends on who is playing it

 

[Bill_McNeil]

Very interesting. Thanks very much for all of your responses. In response to your points:

• The action at the nut is 0.75mm on the Pono, closer to 0.5mm on the Cordoba.
• The fret wires themselves are similar in size, with the Pono just a bit chunkier.
• The fretboard of the Pono is real wood while the Cordoba is synthetic.
• The neck isn't dramatically different; feels a tad thicker on the Pono.
• The Cordoba fretboard is significantly wider and flatter than the Pono, which has a bit of a radiused fretboard.

This all seems to jive nicely with the factors you point out. I really appreciate these perspectives! Seems like finding the right uke involves plenty of science, but perhaps a fair amount of trial and error as well. Thanks!

 

[baconsalad]

If you have a straightedge which is between 3 and 4 frets, then rocking it up the fretboard can help you identify any high frets

 

[70sSanO]

You can check the bow of the neck by placing a capo “on the top” of the first fret and your finger on top of the last fret and see what the maximum gap above the frets between the two points.

I don’t recall if luthiers build relief into ukulele necks, if there is any relief it should be minimal.

At this point you are getting into the weeds as to any measurable differences between the two.

This does take you back to what @Jan D suggested. Neck differences are enough to impact your playing. If this is the case, most people overcome those differences even if they still have a preference.

John

 

[man0a]

Could be the Pono is just significantly better quality than the Cordoba. Better build quality. Better quality woods. A better quality ukulele is more responsive and is often more forgiving to sloppy fretting or strumming.

 

[BuzzBD]

Many years ago, when I was still making guitars, I would help the owner of the store that sold my instruments set up guitars when he received a shipment. I took some time to carefully measure the neck profiles of various models. I was surprised by the differences between the necks of identical models of guitars. They could vary by as much as 2mm in thickness. And in practice, players can find that as little as .5mm can make a big difference in feel.
Brad

 

[clear]

They are from different brands so there might be other differences (e.g. you mentioned Cordoba buzzes, it could be caused by not leveled frets, which you didn't mention in your measurements of the 2 instruments). Also, you may just play 1 much more than the other so you're more used to it; if not, perhaps the Pono just fits your playing style better.

In the end, unless there's something wrong with the Cordoba, I think once you get more experience, you'll be able to play both ukes just fine. So that's something to look forward to.

 

[merlin666]

I don’t recall if luthiers build relief into ukulele necks, if there is any relief it should be minimal

John

I don't think that relief is carved in on purpose, but that the neck gets curved by string tension. But when this is over adjusted by truss rod it can result in negative relief with convex shape. Maybe string tension of ukes is too low to generate measurable relief? But I still think that whatever relief is there will affect playability.

 

[baconsalad]

Some peoples fingers just work better on radiused fretboards.