How do YOU determine the price for a used ukulele ?

I have a custom uke for sale in the Market Place and when I saw this thread I thought I was going to be very disappointed with the price I listed, but no, I'm actually encouraged that I asked a less than I paid for it.

I wonder if I'm the only one who feels uncomfortable buying an instrument without first playing it. I do like an instrument to look nice, but it's much more important that it is a good player that also sounds good. I can't tell this about an instrument that I see on the internet.
My wife did buy me an octave mandolin on line and I am quite happy with it, but I would never buy on line myself unless it was a fabulous deal.

I often have a price in mind for a particular model that is ~40%-60% below retail with adjustments for case and shipping. When I see a ukulele going for below my strike price, I often put a bid in on ebay or send an email through craigslist. Sometimes if I see someone selling something for a while who is open to offers, I offer what I think would be a good deal for me with the idea that if they don't want to sell, I already have more ukuleles than I need and also if I need to, I could sell some of them at a similar price that I paid for it. Doing this has allowed me to play and own instruments that I could never otherwise afford (without the wife killing me).

But that comes at a price. There are a few discounts that I consider when buying used. One, it is used and not in pristine condition. It might even have some actual damage. Second, it is a model that the seller picked out from all of the possible new models, not necessary the model I want most. He or she paid for that priveledge (especially with customs). While there are a lot of used ukuleles to pick from at any one time, there are many more new ones with exactly what I want (minus the price tag). This requires a lot of time, research and vigilence and I have often seen potential buys escape within minutes of seeing the posting. Third, there might be a reason the seller want to get rid of this ukulele related to the ukulele. Finally, retailers are professional businesses and random people selling ukuleles on the internet are inherently more risky to deal with than professional businesses. That being said, I price these risks into my asking price.

Still, I am always surprised to see people thinking they can sell used gear at near retail prices without taking these factors into consideration.

Jim Yates said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who feels uncomfortable buying an instrument without first playing it. I do like an instrument to look nice, but it's much more important that it is a good player that also sounds good. I can't tell this about an instrument that I see on the internet.....

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When you commission a build from a Luthier, you commit to purchase without playing it. So what is the difference if you purchase a 2nd hand instrument that was built by a well known and respected Luthier?

Thanks for the excellent question - there are a lot of ways of trying to answer it.

I get your point that you're trying to exclude emotional value - hence the idea of insurance value: how much is it worth to a non-playing, highly objective Insurance broker. And you are very correct at pointing out the relatively small market.

You said

Brian1 said:

But it is my firm belief that brand names depreciate at the same rate any other similar item. That does not mean that a 10 year old $1000 ukulele will be worth the same as a 10 year old $100 ukulele it means that the brand name gets its premium up front. It starts off at a higher price and ends at a higher price although ends at a price lower than it originally sold for taking inflation into account.

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I don't really agree, even considering the same expensive model is still available new - I think they do depreciate, but less than cheaper ones. A five year old NRP or pricy Martin will probably be 20-30% below the value of an identical new one (all other factors considered equal: condition, case or not, even warranty...), while a Makala Dolphin of the same age will probably have ducked below the 50% of a new one (even considering it's still mint and unplayed). In percentages, the expensive ones loose less value (30% instead of 50%), in absolute cash value of course more so (say 450$ instead of 25$).

Another point to consider is similar to house prices: the higher you go value-wise, the smaller the potential market. Like it is harder to find a buyer for a big mansion in perfect shape than for a smaller house that needs mending (considering the prices for both are fair), it takes more time and patience to find someone for a 1000$-plus ukulele, while you can sell your old starter ukulele within two days. Ad sites and online auctions prove that: the expensive ones are relisted more often before selling, even while maintaining their asking price.

You do make a very good point with this thread: one simply can't buy and sell modern ukuleles for a profit. Unless you're a regular dealership and thus sell 'new'. I highly doubt that - in the hypothetical case someone would want to do that - one could even get a profit out of trading 'waiting list' ukuleles. But I even talked to people last night who made very nice profits by buying and selling vintage, high-end and thus rare instruments. Not enough to make a living, but enough to buy several other instruments. Oh, and they play them as well, while they're at it.

The vintage guitar market is something really odd. Nostalgia has a lot to do with that: electric guitars from the late 1950s fetched top prices, but since babyboomers are ageing, that bubble is slowly, gently deflating.

And there probably is a ground level, instruments in a playable shape of whatever brand, age or quality don't go under say 10$ (and exceptions are exceptions: someone who doesn't know what they're selling, or selling in a fit of rage, or doing the young buyer a favor; we're still talking actual Marketplace here).

I have sold several ukulele's, a cornet and 1 guitar.
I sold a Pono tenor with a misi pickup and case to a fellow that plays in the same uke group. I priced it so that I lost about 30% after 6 months.
I bought a Rock Uke on EBay that someone else wanted badly so after owning it for a few days, I sold it to her for what I paid.
An Oscar Schmitt all Koa concert, actually a beautiful instrument, I priced at 35% below online retail and it didn't sell. It eventually went to EBay and to a good home.
An EBay cheapie baritone sold for cheaper still. I think I sold that through the UU marketplace for best offer.
One of those all metal Chinese resonators sold on Ebay for half of its new retail value (I had added top quality tuners and pickup to it so I lost my shirt).
I sold a Fluke on EBay (probably should have kept that for my next trip to Africa) at a major loss.
I had a professional level cornet that I bought used and sold for close to what I paid on Ebay
A National guitar sold on consignment through a local luthier's shop.

I start most of my instruments on UU with a price that I think is reasonable. Most buyers on UU seem to want to trade rather than purchase outright. After 2 weeks in the UU marketplace, I move it to EBay. Frequently, the final Ebay selling price is higher than my original UU marketplace price. Nothing encourages people like seeing that someone else is interested.

I have a wonderful white label Kamaka baritone on EBay right now that someone will get a great deal on.

I've lost money on almost every instrument that I have sold. That's OK though. I never buy them as an investment. They are tools for producing sounds.

ukulelekarcsi said:

Thanks for the excellent question - there are a lot of ways of trying to answer it.

I get your point that you're trying to exclude emotional value - hence the idea of insurance value: how much is it worth to a non-playing, highly objective Insurance broker. And you are very correct at pointing out the relatively small market.

You said

I don't really agree, even considering the same expensive model is still available new - I think they do depreciate, but less than cheaper ones. A five year old NRP or pricy Martin will probably be 20-30% below the value of an identical new one (all other factors considered equal: condition, case or not, even warranty...), while a Makala Dolphin of the same age will probably have ducked below the 50% of a new one (even considering it's still mint and unplayed). In percentages, the expensive ones loose less value (30% instead of 50%), in absolute cash value of course more so (say 450$ instead of 25$).

Another point to consider is similar to house prices: the higher you go value-wise, the smaller the potential market. Like it is harder to find a buyer for a big mansion in perfect shape than for a smaller house that needs mending (considering the prices for both are fair), it takes more time and patience to find someone for a 1000$-plus ukulele, while you can sell your old starter ukulele within two days. Ad sites and online auctions prove that: the expensive ones are relisted more often before selling, even while maintaining their asking price.

You do make a very good point with this thread: one simply can't buy and sell modern ukuleles for a profit. Unless you're a regular dealership and thus sell 'new'. I highly doubt that - in the hypothetical case someone would want to do that - one could even get a profit out of trading 'waiting list' ukuleles. But I even talked to people last night who made very nice profits by buying and selling vintage, high-end and thus rare instruments. Not enough to make a living, but enough to buy several other instruments. Oh, and they play them as well, while they're at it.

The vintage guitar market is something really odd. Nostalgia has a lot to do with that: electric guitars from the late 1950s fetched top prices, but since babyboomers are ageing, that bubble is slowly, gently deflating.

And there probably is a ground level, instruments in a playable shape of whatever brand, age or quality don't go under say 10$ (and exceptions are exceptions: someone who doesn't know what they're selling, or selling in a fit of rage, or doing the young buyer a favor; we're still talking actual Marketplace here).

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Thanks for your reply, but I think you may have overlooked a very important part when you quoted me. I said that provided that BOTH the expensive model and a $100 model are priced at their true worth when new. ( a dolphin would not fall into either category I mentioned btw)

When you compare ukuleles to houses I have already stated earlier that houses are dictated at a different rate than the model I am using.

But I can not argue that the prices you mention reflect actual prices, but I don't see the argument you are making that is their "actual worth". Considering that Martin Ukuleles are constantly being made the supply of them is constantly going up. For the last few years the demand of more people playing (buying) ukulele was going up but it does not continue to do so, while at same time the supply of other quality ukuleles being made to compete with Martin is also going up.

Last night I went to ebay and saw many Martins listed for the buy it now option, and the sellers were asking for 1000's of dollars but those selling at auction were not near the same price.

There are several ways to profit from collectibles one is by buying high and selling them for a loss and taking a deduction on taxes. Or by buying two and selling one in a manner that will inflate its value and holding onto the other. But these methods (which I admit I don't completely understand) are manipulations of prices, not actual values.

I researched those selling guitars prior to creating this thread as mentioned in the OP, they seem to be in the same boat, very few make a profit on any sale.

But yes in the actual market any instrument that plays worth a darn in probably not going to sell for less than as you said about $10. That is an emotional value,that imo says the buyer is saying: I don't want to take it for nothing even if its "actual worth" is less.

Hhhmmm, Good. Quality, quantity, age, emotion, playability and sound, use and abuse.

Basic Economics: MFR cost is 40% of list. 10% is for profit and wholesaler enticement, 5% list is a good profit for the Mfr, but don't forget volume sales. Wholesaler wants a 100% markup over his price But.... Basic evaluation: a used ukulele is worth 40% of list. If the item is still manufactured current list price should be used as starting basis to accommodate for inflation.

Market factors: Supply and Demand = It is a Buyers marketplace... Caveat Emptor. Timing is as important in commerce as it is in music... Do you really need it Today?.. there is an associated cost to time. Uncertainty; when people are uncertain they fall back on who they know. Lanikai=Hohner, Gibson=Harmony=Epiphone, Martin=Martin, etc. This can add a little to your asking price. Value added: have you or the previous owners made improvements to the instrument that affect its perceived value... Change out friction pegs for Grover Tuners, Beautiful Art-Deco artwork on a skin head of a banjo-lele....Proper setup and action seen to by someone who loves the instrument? Does this instrument come with a $100 hard-shell case, a $25 gig bag or is it in a paper bag=Minimum requirement for ukes in Salt Lake County.

Age, Use, Abuse: A used ukulele is a happy ukulele. The longer it is used the better it can sound. Abuse is a two edged sword. Bad abuse is bad but a beloved and well used instrument travels with its lover. There will be some abuse and scarring in any long term relationship, like it or not. All Women are beautiful but beauty is only skin deep. As a buyer can you look/hear beneath the skin. What is the cost premium you are willing to pay for physical perfection? Is it worth it?

Yes Jim Yates there is a Santa Claus! When my ears like what they hear a transaction is possible, perhaps likely. Most of the factors I have considered I leave to the consumer to evaluate but if my ears like what they hear I will add 25% to the list price of a used Ukulele ie 40% list =50% list for an used instrument my ears like.

If I can't hear the instrument I rely on trust, faith and past dealings. Fred Oster, (Vintage Instruments), doesn't play ukulele per se. He plays mandolin, and does it well. I have and will purchase new or used instruments from him based on his say so. (plus a little horse trading - we both enjoy that). If a UU member offers a deal I consider it carefully. If they are forthright and candid I usually accept their evaluation; even if sometimes they unintentionally misstate something. If I can't listen to an instrument I will devalue it 5%-10% unless the seller can convince me otherwise.

Negotiation: Never pay retail. When Horsetrading whatever the negotiated price be prepared to throw in and/or ask for "something to boot". This generates good will in buyer and seller and leads to mutual satisfaction. Consider it Mahalo!

When disposing of instruments I try to give value and expect something "to boot" If disposing of an inferior or low quality instrument I will give it away to someone new who wants to learn or "sell it for a pittance/trade' to another musician I know for consideration. Give a man a fish: he eats today. Teach a man to fish: he eats. Give a person a ukulele: who knows? Teach a person to play an ukulele and you have a friend for life and potential future customers.

I don't think it is a good idea to throw in free shipping before you know what it will cost. A done deal that collapses do to shipping costs dispute generates bad feelings amongst all parties.

Hi Brian,

Brian1 said:

Thanks for your reply, but I think you may have overlooked a very important part when you quoted me. I said that provided that BOTH the expensive model and a $100 model are priced at their true worth when new. ( a dolphin would not fall into either category I mentioned btw)

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Fair argument! And I did overlook that. Still I think that the resale value of higher-end ones ukuleles is better percentage-wise, but worse in absolute numbers.

Brian1 said:

When you compare ukuleles to houses I have already stated earlier that houses are dictated at a different rate than the model I am using.

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You're right, it's a crooked metaphor. But I only tried to say that the higher the actual value and price is, the group of possible buyers gets thinned out. But I shouldn't have used houses to compare it with, their price settings follow utterly different rules. My bad.

Brian1 said:

There are several ways to profit from collectibles one is by buying high and selling them for a loss and taking a deduction on taxes. Or by buying two and selling one in a manner that will inflate its value and holding onto the other.

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I'm not good at economics, but you just gave me some new insights! And did we just get actually sound financial excuses for UAS?

ukulelekarcsi said:

Hi Brian,

Fair argument! And I did overlook that. Still I think that the resale value of higher-end ones ukuleles is better percentage-wise, but worse in absolute numbers.

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It certainly seems you would be correct if you are talking about price. My reason for mentioning it was "value" I believe we would all be much happier with future purchases of second hand instruments if price reflects value, that may not fair as well for for instruments that have already been bought or sales.

As for an excuse for UAS I am still working on that one . This model might ease the suffering

ukulelekarcsi said:

Hi Brian,



Fair argument! And I did overlook that. Still I think that the resale value of higher-end ones ukuleles is better percentage-wise, but worse in absolute numbers.

Originally Posted by Brian1
There are several ways to profit from collectibles one is by buying high and selling them for a loss and taking a deduction on taxes. Or by buying two and selling one in a manner that will inflate its value and holding onto the other.

I'm not good at economics, but you just gave me some new insights! And did we just get actually sound financial excuses for UAS?

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If you sell at a loss, then by definition you're not profiting. You can sell at a loss and increase cash flow because you're converting inventory dollars to cash. But you're not profiting. You only profit when your sales price exceeds your costs.

Oh, wait, I mean, that's a fantastic idea. Sell me all your ukes for $1. You'll make a lot of money with the tax write-off (you won't). ;-)

Ukulele Eddie said:

If you sell at a loss, then by definition you're not profiting. You can sell at a loss and increase cash flow because you're converting inventory dollars to cash. But you're not profiting. You only profit when your sales price exceeds your costs.

Oh, wait, I mean, that's a fantastic idea. Sell me all your ukes for $1. You'll make a lot of money with the tax write-off (you won't). ;-)

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None of my ukes would be valued at more than $1 .

It was a glib commonent. Probably not suited for Ukuleles it does work among horse traders etc... you can ignore it.

I will be happy to ship my ukuleles to your address S/H is $1,300 each.

Bring stringed musical instruments - guitars, mandolins, ukuleles to be sold at Bernunzio's www.bernunzio.com on consignment. They check them out completely and then research to determine price. I reluctantly brought a Kamaka concert and Kamaka Ohta-san there because I still have another concert and another Ohta-san. Believe the price they are listed at is very fair.

guitharsis said:

Bring stringed musical instruments - guitars, mandolins, ukuleles to be sold at Bernunzio's www.bernunzio.com on consignment. They check them out completely and then research to determine price. I reluctantly brought a Kamaka concert and Kamaka Ohta-san there because I still have another concert and another Ohta-san. Believe the price they are listed at is very fair.

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Well bernunzio has what appears to be a 1 year old (listed as 2013 that could be the year they got it) $2800 Collings uke for just over $800 off retail, marked down from $500 off. So that is about 30% in one year ? (or a little more)

They have a Johnny Marvin Uke there for $699 which I found an add for saying when new sold for $13.50 in 1930 that is equal to about $200 to build it today. I guess people have to decide themselves what the history is worth for a $200 uke with case that seems to have been taken care of for 85 years.

And I looked at a random Cordoba that originally sold for $270 that appears to come from 2013 and was marked down to $199 so it seems a like a little bit more than 30% in the first year for that one too.

(I shouldn't be attempting math this early in the morning the numbers may or may not be right)

If the ages of the ukes I have seen listed is really from 2013 I would think they are fair prices, without knowing the true "value" of anything maybe I should say they seem consistent with more expensive and low to mid priced ukuleles. ( I guess, from what I can tell.) The ukuleles have yet to be sold that could be playing factor too. -OR- Maybe I am just trying to put a science to something where there is none.

*I have no connection with this seller I only list prices to try to determine values of used ukuleles.

According the chart I found for general items made out of wood they suggested wood items had a rate of depreciation of 13-15% per year.
And it seems here that the $2800 uke and the $270 uke depreciate at about the same rate.

Definitely too early for me too Brian. Like the security of instruments being checked out completely before listing. Better for buyer and seller in my opinion.

Edit: Purchased a Kanile'a uke from Doc J in the past and had no qualms about it. It was as he presented and even better than expected.

Brian1 said:

According the chart I found for general items made out of wood they suggested wood items had a rate of depreciation of 13-15% per year.
And it seems here that the $2800 uke and the $270 uke depreciate at about the same rate.

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I think the concept of depreciation does not work well for musical instruments. Depreciation as a concept generally reflects a loss of utility and/or increased need for maintenance. For example, a ten year old car is much more likely to need repair and replacement of wear items than a one year old car. Therefore, it is easy to see why a ten year old car would be less valuable than a one year old car. Even a well-maintained car will wear considerably over ten years.

Most musical instruments, however, will not wear significantly if properly maintained. Many very old instruments that have been lovingly cared for basically appear and operate as new. So the utility of the instrument is basically the same as new, and the need for maintenance is probably not much different. Obviously, there will always be exceptions.

Most musical instruments are reduced in value once they are sold new. The primary reason for this is buyer perception: why would I pay you $1000 for a used instrument when I can buy a new one for $1000? Well, what about $900? Nah, I'll pay another hundred bucks for a new one. What about $800? Okay, now we're getting somewhere. In most cases there is at least one item of value that is lost, too; most manufacturer's warranties only extend to the original purchaser. Of course, for many people, wear and tear will decrease the price further.

I find, in general, production-based musical instruments will take an "driving off the lot" hit between the original purchaser and the first "used" purchaser, generally in the range of 20-30%. This varies greatly based on the demand for the instrument and its availability. However, future sales of a well-maintained instrument rarely show much depreciation. The instrument will probably bring a similar price when it is sold the fifth time as it was when it was sold the second, all other things being equal.

Thoughtful response RichM. But just as food for thought, if music instruments continue to function as well when they are older the supply of them is still going up and continues to stay up and a larger and larger constantly increasing number of people need to continue to buy them.

Secondly, with the car comparison this is December and the 2015 models are out, and dealers are trying to get rid of the inventory of their 2014 models and will take a reduced price for new cars that still have the same warranty and no ware and tear because their age simply is a year older.

So something does not have to be damaged or falling apart to depreciate, much of depreciation is just market driven.

Brian1 said:

Well bernunzio has what appears to be a 1 year old (listed as 2013 that could be the year they got it) $2800 Collings uke for just over $800 off retail, marked down from $500 off. So that is about 30% in one year ? (or a little more)

They have a Johnny Marvin Uke there for $699 which I found an add for saying when new sold for $13.50 in 1930 that is equal to about $200 to build it today. I guess people have to decide themselves what the history is worth for a $200 uke with case that seems to have been taken care of for 85 years.

And I looked at a random Cordoba that originally sold for $270 that appears to come from 2013 and was marked down to $199 so it seems a like a little bit more than 30% in the first year for that one too.

(I shouldn't be attempting math this early in the morning the numbers may or may not be right)

If the ages of the ukes I have seen listed is really from 2013 I would think they are fair prices, without knowing the true "value" of anything maybe I should say they seem consistent with more expensive and low to mid priced ukuleles. ( I guess, from what I can tell.) The ukuleles have yet to be sold that could be playing factor too. -OR- Maybe I am just trying to put a science to something where there is none.

*I have no connection with this seller I only list prices to try to determine values of used ukuleles.

According the chart I found for general items made out of wood they suggested wood items had a rate of depreciation of 13-15% per year.
And it seems here that the $2800 uke and the $270 uke depreciate at about the same rate.

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Brian,

You are over-analyzing this, IMHO. Too many factors, emotional and otherwise to figure a perfect price for a uke, on any given day. This isn't a science.

Most folks (including me) selling a uke will list a price that they think is fair and reasonable. If no one is interested at a particular price, it won't sell. Lower prices or offers may follow.

If I am looking to buy a uke, I can accept the price, wait for a better price, or make an offer.

Maybe we should have a forum or thread called "What's it worth?". But I guess we already do. It is the "Marketplace" or FMM or eBay.

Just curious, what are you looking to buy or sell?

Just curious, what are you looking to buy or sell?

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Well I am definitely not trying to buy anything. I think this started as me trying to justify what I have already spent. And maybe justify or cure my UAS

dkcrown said:

I remember back in 2010 and 2011 KoAloha's were extremely popular and always in demand. Pop's specialty models, the scepter and the Pineapple Sunday were all the rage and held their value very well. Now you would be lucky to get 50% of their retail price in a sale. Times and demands change.

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I agree with the other posts, and with Dana's point about the wax and wane of the marketplace.

Some things I have noted:

It's amazing that a uke can be listed for sale and get no bites. Then three months later, same uke, same photos, same listing, and boom: out the door.

Popular production instruments (the K's, etc.) retain value better than customs.

Buyers claim they care about sound above all, and that they do not care about looks (e.g wood grain), or about scratches and bumps. But they do care about looks and blems as most ukes are sold unheard by the buyer. They definitely do value eye appeal, and they definitely will ask for more photos of a blem.

Ukulele sound files/recordings are next to worthless.

Throwing in extras--strings, upgraded case, tuners, etc.--doesn't help the sale at all.

Lower-priced ukuleles (sub-$300) are hard sells; buyers can purchase new, with warranty, with free shipping, for what most sellers are asking.

A sellers' reputation, whether private sale or from a store, is everything.

Warranties are of great value when the thing gets a buzz.

I counted a couple months ago--I have sold over 50 ukuleles in the past four years. My wife, fortunately, works/worked at the post office. LOL Love the idea of buying used, btw. Good deals can be had, particularly now (as compared to a couple years ago) as the tide has shifted from newly-fanatical, four-chord strumming uke buyers to moved-on-from-ukulele, different-interests-now uke sellers.