History question: First maker of the tenor uke?

k0k0peli said:

And just down the road from Benjamin & Jeremiah's frozen confection stand. But I digress.

Martin introduced their Tiple (TIH-pul, adapted from the Latino TEE-play) in 1919. My 10-string Tiple is quite the same size as my Three Tenors: Alvarez 4-string, Kala 6-string, and O.Schmidt 8-string. All are tuned GCEA (in various unison and octave variants). I *suspect* that the first tenor was somebody stripping-down a Tiple to just 4 strings.

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And here I thought the three tenors were Plácido Domingo, José Carreras and Luciano Pavarotti ...

Davoravo said:

Given that the tenor is rumoured to have originally been tuned dGBE and the history of the tenor guitar I wonder if the tenor was made for banjo players in jazz bands looking for a different sound. They would have needed a bigger instrument to compete volume wise and dGBE would have been the same chords as the banjo in Chicago.

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dGBE is not a common way to tune a banjo. The banjos in jazz bands were mainly short tenor banjos tuned in fifths CGDA. Tenor guitars were developed a few years later so that banjo player could also play guitar in the bands. The dGBE tuning is a more recent, post-war development. I suspect that the early tenors were tuned just like the smaller soprano and concert sized ukes of the time in A3 D4 F♯4 B4.

Here is one of the very first tenors produced made by Lyon & Healy according to the serial numbers this was made right around 1922 but could have been made in 1923 Lyon & Healy produced approximately 300 ukuleles total in those years and very very few tenors. Notice the tiny bridge pins (good luck on finding those for a restoration) this is in my collection of Historic tenors I have been told it is the best example of the earliest tenor. As I have not seen another in this condition in the original hardshell Washburn case it very well might be.
this is a tough subject as L & H catalogued these as TENOR ukuleles and used the T designation on back of headstock although it is between the size of a modern tenor and a concert ukulele length 24.5“ lower bought width 8” and upper 6” so small for modern standards but as far as I have researched the first ukulele catalogued as a Tenor.

I find interesting that in this "Catalogue of the Crosby Brown Collection of Musical Instruments" from 1913/1914 is reported an ukulele from Hawaii the same size of a Tenor:
Check pages 46-47 of the PDF

Edit: I think the description of the banjo is also interesting (from page 185).

merlin666 said:

dGBE is not a common way to tune a banjo. The banjos in jazz bands were mainly short tenor banjos tuned in fifths CGDA. Tenor guitars were developed a few years later so that banjo player could also play guitar in the bands. The dGBE tuning is a more recent, post-war development. I suspect that the early tenors were tuned just like the smaller soprano and concert sized ukes of the time in A3 D4 F♯4 B4.

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After learning more about the subject and reading this thread again I have to disagree with myself on this. I now think that before WWII the different sizes were more commonly used and also named after their different tuning/voicing. Standard/soprano was in D tuning, concert in C, and tenor was called tenor because it was in lower G tuning. The switch to linear tenor in C probably occurred around the time when baritone size with linear G tuning became popular after the war.

Kermit80 said:

I find interesting that in this "Catalogue of the Crosby Brown Collection of Musical Instruments" from 1913/1914 is reported an ukulele from Hawaii the same size of a Tenor:

https://ia902805.us.archive.org/10/items/catalogueofcrosb02metr/catalogueofcrosb02metr.pdf

Check pages 46-47 of the PDF

Edit: I think the description of the banjo is also interesting (from page 185).

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As far as tenor ukulele history goes, tracking the history of instruments by size is difficult. Is the ukulele pictured GCAE Unfortunately there is no indication of the exact tuning or anything other than measurements which do appear to be 26.5 inches which certainly would be a tenor sized ukulele. Maybe at that time at 26.5 inches it was more like a baritone. Lyon & Healy are credited with the first mainland catalogued Tenor Ukulele but is it really a tenor at 24.5”. It’s larger than a Concert size but quite small by tenor standards. Much like violas started out larger than became slightly smaller as players tastes changed and smaller violas became more popular. Maybe tenor ukuleles grew out of smaller sizes and increased in size as tastes in size changed.
I wonder if instruments are determined by size or by tuning. EADGBE is standard tuning for guitar but guitars come in many sizes Concert, grand concert, dreadnaught, jumbo etc. Even a bass guitar has EADGBE tuning. (not to be confused with a bass which has 4 strings) Sizes are different for the same instrument in the case of a guitar and each have the same standard tuning. Thus sizes are given names Or numerical indications like 0,00,000 0000 so guitars seem to be determined by tuning then put into size categories. Without EADGBE as standard tuning it isn’t a guitar, with one exception the tenor guitar GDAE which was made for banjo players so a crossover instrument and not really a guitar at all it’s a banjo neck on a body shaped like a guitar and made to sound like a guitar.
I am wondering if a good place to look would be actual how to books on playing instruments as we may find the ukulele is the same as guitar in terms of tuning. Baritone ukuleles are a different tuning so are they ukuleles? I play baritone which is DGBE so more guitar-like than ukulele.

I sent all my collection of early string packages to a Museum as I really need to cut back on my collecting. I can only guess as to dates on many of them as there are no dates on string packages but we can determine the notes of each string using string packaging and make an attempt to date tunings by what strings were sold And then attempt at dating the packaging.

Jag-Stang said:

As far as tenor ukulele history goes, tracking the history of instruments by size is difficult...

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What I find interesting is that, aside from the name or the tuning, the tenor ukulele was already built locally before any of the well-known brands put it on the market. Hence the search for the "first maker of the tenor uke" between mainland builders loses it's meaning. They just started making something that was already out there.

Kermit80 said:

What I find interesting is that, aside from the name or the tuning, the tenor ukulele was already built locally before any of the well-known brands put it on the market. Hence the search for the "first maker of the tenor uke" between mainland builders loses it's meaning. They just started making something that was already out there.

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Well the difficulty is that no one knows who made the tenor sized ukulele in the 1914 catalog. Besides the guitar ukulele described in the catalog rajoa were produced early on and that instrument is not a tenor ukulele. But has the proportions of a tenor. Portuguese makers produced instruments in HI. The rajao would look similar enough that a catalog could call it a guitar ukulele. We do not know who in HI was making tenors how many were made, and without documentation there is no way to say who made them only that one exists in a catalog and without actually seeing it we don’t know if it is even a ukulele. I agree by the description it certainly looks like one But who made it and where it was made are not mentioned. Besides the ukulele made in 1922 that is documented and was not the same size as the catalogued one from this worldwide instrument collection. Early catalogs are good indications but not necessarily factual as collections are not necessarily documented the way we document today. Dates and makers have become significant. As in all things without documentation, it becomes who came first the chicken or the egg. We won’t know who made the first tenor as no HI maker was ever documented back then as making one. There are similar tenor sized instruments. The first tenors documented with a maker attached to it in HI were also from the 1920’s. I have to disagree that the mainland maker was copying a Hawaiian maker as the size was completely different and internal construction was also different, as were the woods used. It is a completely different instrument and in no way a copy. If anything Hawaiian ukuleles were just as influenced by mainland builders as mainland builders were influenced by Hawaiian builders. Just look at Hawaiian ukuleles that have woods not local to Hawaii in their production. Tuners were jobbed out from America and Europe so many things in ukulele building are influenced by builds outside of Hawaii as is the construction Of the modern ukulele which has been influenced by makers like Martin.

Jag-Stang said:

The rajao would look similar enough that a catalog could call it a guitar ukulele. We do not know who in HI was making tenors how many were made, and without documentation there is no way to say who made them only that one exists in a catalog and without actually seeing it we don’t know if it is even a ukulele.

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let's give some credit to whoever compiled that catalog. He calls it a ukulele and also knows its history as he describes its European origin. Among other things, on wikipedia we read of an even older edition which, however, I have not been able to find.

Jag-Stang said:

I have to disagree that the mainland maker was copying a Hawaiian maker as the size was completely different and internal construction was also different, as were the woods used. It is a completely different instrument and in no way a copy. If anything Hawaiian ukuleles were just as influenced by mainland builders as mainland builders were influenced by Hawaiian builders. Just look at Hawaiian ukuleles that have woods not local to Hawaii in their production. Tuners were jobbed out from America and Europe so many things in ukulele building are influenced by builds outside of Hawaii as is the construction Of the modern ukulele which has been influenced by makers like Martin.

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apart from using more available woods and perhaps adopting some construction techniques derived from other instruments, what would this contribution be?

We already have several problems with the history. There are those who believe that jazz has white origins and that the banjo comes from Ireland. I don't think it's right to give credence to stories that water down the Hawaiian origin of the ukulele.

In what I see from quotes in old newspapers, and old advertisements, it took thirty years for today's spelling of "ukulele" to take hold. The correct pronunciation is still rare. Some insist on the diacritical ' notation before the U, 'ukulele. No surprise that the size names had a loose application.

My concerts have a scale from 14 1/8 to 15 1/16. Not bad compared to 100 years ago. In identifying a size, the scale is more important than body measurements. You see bridges mounted all over the place to get the desired scale.