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Thread: My reality check with the Phil Jones Double Four.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey View Post
    Do you have a dedicated soundperson, or someone that hows how to properly use a channel mixer for sound support (and not just someone who can turn things up when they're quiet)? Maybe the leader isn't very knowledgeable in sound reinforcement, and just needs someone there to show/prove how easy it really is with a bit of knowledge.
    I second that...
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  2. #12
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    We don't have a dedicated sound person, we rely on the system that's being used at the venue. The leader has a great deal of live experience, hopefully our discussion later will clarify everything. We will not be carrying our own PA or mixer for sure, either we use an existing PA, or we use our own amplifiers.

    I'm getting so much conflicting feedback. I posted this on Talk Bass as well, some say the Aquila Fender will work, some say they use a 30 watt system, but with a big speaker box, others say it's not the power, but the quality of the sound, etc. I bought this system after a good deal of discussion and playing it. It fits in my cart and has power. The only thing I can do at this point is try this setup myself at the uke festival, if it works, great, if not, I'll either have to try other configurations so I know first hand (but can't be physically bigger than this one), or insist on patching into the PA.
    Last edited by kohanmike; 08-31-2015 at 04:51 AM.

  3. #13
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    I just read that thread over on TB.

    Did you use the battery power the entire time for the gig?

    If so, at any point did you have the chance to plug the Double Four in to an outlet? Maybe the battery was the issue with the cutting out?
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  4. #14
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    I feel your pain in needing a small, portable bass rig. Many years ago I had a Fiero, and needed a rig that I could transport in it. My old Ric would barely fit in the trunk (sans case) and there obviously wasn't enough room in the passenger seat for my 8x12 Ampeg cabinet and head. After much auditioning and searching, I got what I feel is the perfect small portable rig that actually fit in the little car - an Ampeg Portaflex 15T. It has enough power for most smaller venues as well as a balanced line out for going into the PA at larger clubs, the flip-top design stows the amplifier safely and securely for transport, it has detachable casters, and also serves as a case for transporting effects pedals and cabling. Most importantly to me, it has that great Ampeg sound. That poor thing has gigged with me all across the southeast for about 20 years and other than a few cracked solder joints has been as reliable and sturdy as an anvil.

    The newer Portaflex rigs have more power than mine (which is only 100 watts) and IMHO sound a bit better due to the increased headroom. You may want to audition one.
    I too, have nothing of value to add to this thread...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey View Post
    Did you use the battery power the entire time for the gig? If so, at any point did you have the chance to plug the Double Four in to an outlet? Maybe the battery was the issue with the cutting out?
    The battery was fine all the way through, it was the D4 amp that clipped and shut down. The difficulty was that it stayed off for more than 5 minutes, so I was out for the first two songs. But since the power I'm now going for cannot realistically use a battery, A/C will be it. I'll use the D4 for rehearsal and small gigs.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohanmike View Post
    The battery was fine all the way through, it was the D4 amp that clipped and shut down. The difficulty was that it stayed off for more than 5 minutes, so I was out for the first two songs. But since the power I'm now going for cannot realistically use a battery, A/C will be it. I'll use the D4 for rehearsal and small gigs.
    Right, but did you have a chance to A/B the Double Four at the gig with the battery and the A/C. A lot of the TB folk seem to think - myself included - that the battery just didn't have the power to give you the clean sound, which is why the Double Four clipped and then shut down.

    That doesn't fix the volume issue, but if the battery is limiting the functionality of the PJB, that's another issue that needs to be addressed since you're the only person I've talked with that's had that type of issue with the amp (cutting out).
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  7. #17
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    I guess that's a possibility that I have to try, though the battery is rated at 23,000 milli amps. Once I turned down the volume enough, the D4 did not shut down, but was too low for the gig.

  8. #18
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    It does have enough power.* All they had to do was take a line out or mic up your amp and mix it on their end. Your bass amp should not have to compete with a PA system. The problem is that the group doesn't understand bass or how to mix.** If they think it's too loud, then they just need to drop the level a bit. This is just user error on their part. I feel your pain.

    *The unit could be defective, of course, if it's not operating up to specs.
    **If they don't have a mixer or understand how to use one, perhaps that's a job you could volunteer for. I just got my community center to get a simple mixer and they use it for movie night and board meetings. Very handy. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...drYaArRb8P8HAQ
    Last edited by CactusWren; 08-31-2015 at 06:23 AM.

  9. #19
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    I just tested and the cutout is because of the battery, when I clip with the battery, the amp shuts off and will not come back for 5 minutes, but when I immediately connect the a/c, the amp comes right back. I can clip the amp constantly with a/c and it stays on.

    I also just talked to Steve at Phil Jones and he confirms that the D4 is not at all appropriate for the gig I had. He says that a speaker with a good amount travel is necessary and the Fender should work just fine. I'm also going to trade in the Aguilar for a GK MB500 to get more headroom with the 8 ohm speaker.
    Last edited by kohanmike; 08-31-2015 at 08:49 AM.

  10. #20

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    I hope your PA discussion goes well. You should not have to be bringing giant amps to a ukulele gig. Your new rig will be fine if you're still not allowed to be in the PA since the leader does not seem to care about having the sound properly balanced or does not understand that it can be.

    The other thing is that bass does not need to kill people and make their chest rattle all of the time, as a soundman I can tell you that when I see a giant bass rig that is then cranked up really loud I know I'm going to have a heck of a time mixing. In certain styles the bass is meant to be less impactful but just as important, such as jazz, folk, classical, etc. If a player is too loud though, You can only talk to them about it so much before they just get angry if they are not inclined to address it on the first request. Usually in that case I'll quietly approach the leader later and discuss the situation. In the end, if no one wants to change it then it is what it is. Likewise, there are many times in my bass gigs where someone else is doing sound and I may get comments that the bass is not loud enough in the mix. My response? The leader is doing sound and if that's how he wants it then that's how he wants it. I'm there to play bass and not to do sound, so I just play and if no one can hear my "brilliance" then that's just how it is.

    I'm probably not coming across correctly on the internet, I do care about my sound and my playing, but I've also come to accept that some things are out of my control and I'm not going to spend tons of money just because the person I'm playing with doesn't have the proper equipment to do their job, if that's the situation. In the past year, that particular leader has made some major upgrades to the sound system which has now improved the situation a lot.

    Bottom line is if your leader still doesn't understand after you discuss, I wouldn't try to buy my way into making any sense, it may just mean you accept it for what it is. My "disposable" income also gets used towards kids' sports, etc and we're at different places in life where my gigs are fun but the income is necessary and I have to remember that my gigs are not there to break even by continually buying new equipment. I love gear as much as anyone else, believed me!

    That's me though, and I've been known to be wrong a time or twenty... Just ask my wife, she'll gladly tell you!

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