Barred strings impossiblity. Me or the Uke ?

Camsuke said:

String tension may also be contributing to the difficulty you are experiencing. Try tuning down to F#B D#G# or F Bb(A#) D G, these lowered tunings are quite commonly used on the Tenor scale length.

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Can I assume you use the same chord shapes with this tuning?

Camsuke said:

Just use the same shapes if you are playing solo. If you are playing with others that are tuned higher, you can always use a capo.

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Thanks so much! I think I'm beginning to get this stuff figured out.

WEEKS!!!
Keep practicing. You've barely begun. Be patient and know it takes a lot of time.

I agree with the last statement. The problem is that we live in an instant world. Fast food, drive up coffee, instant credit.

All of us (not just kids) are used to instant gratification.

There is a word going around in education (quickly losing traction, as people don't want to think about it) called "grit." Ultimately, that means sticking it through something when it isn't easy.

I find myself in agreement with Barry Maz (gotaukulele) a lot, particularly with his rant about people thinking the ukulele is easy. Compared to a guitar with six strings (often metal), ukulele can be easier to get started with--but mastery of the instrument can take a lifetime. I would imagine that even the best player in the world (probably Jake Shimibukuro) would tell you that there are things he is still working on.

Again, this is why I have my kids starting with barre chords very early--so that when we actually need a chord, we can work with it. In my experience, this generation of kids is more likely to give up when they cannot immediately need a goal, so I need to encourage them as much as possible.

To the original post author, I was just thinking about another thread where the problem was a bad ukulele set-up. I can't see back through the entire thread while writing, but since the barre chords are difficult, it might be good to make sure that the setup of the ukulele isn't the problem (strings being too high to successfully barre chords).

ZZTush Thanks so much for going to the trouble to post the pics. Really helpful.
My Tenor having action lowered by Scayles Edinburgh, and I acquired a Soprano, which
seems slightly easier for barring right now
Tried lots of Uke's yesterday, and I am definitely the 'issue'.
The necessary independent finger contortion & micro-placement seem a world away
Will report back in 5 years

Amazed at the huge, helpful contributions & discussion here, so thanks very much to all

Choirguy said:

I agree with the last statement. The problem is that we live in an instant world. Fast food, drive up coffee, instant credit.

All of us (not just kids) are used to instant gratification.

There is a word going around in education (quickly losing traction, as people don't want to think about it) called "grit." Ultimately, that means sticking it through something when it isn't easy.

I find myself in agreement with Barry Maz (gotaukulele) a lot, particularly with his rant about people thinking the ukulele is easy. Compared to a guitar with six strings (often metal), ukulele can be easier to get started with--but mastery of the instrument can take a lifetime. I would imagine that even the best player in the world (probably Jake Shimibukuro) would tell you that there are things he is still working on.

Again, this is why I have my kids starting with barre chords very early--so that when we actually need a chord, we can work with it. In my experience, this generation of kids is more likely to give up when they cannot immediately need a goal, so I need to encourage them as much as possible.

To the original post author, I was just thinking about another thread where the problem was a bad ukulele set-up. I can't see back through the entire thread while writing, but since the barre chords are difficult, it might be good to make sure that the setup of the ukulele isn't the problem (strings being too high to successfully barre chords).

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"Easy" is a deceptive word. You use the same four fingers on both. So I would not be so quick to make the comparison that a ukulele is easier. But when you get past mechanics, the ukulele becomes pretty complicated compared to guitar. The ukulele takes a little more creativity and a sense of sound to play well. I mean, when it comes to simplicity, with the guitar it doesn't take much imagination to just go up and down a linear scale that essentially goes without end in both directions. A ukulele on the other hand requires a little more creativity to make those four strings work together to get the same sounds, especially when you are playing re-entrant tuning. Not an easy task. Honestly, I've often times thought that it would just be easier to get a big old guitar and play it, than to try to trick all that sound out of a re-entrant tuned ukulele, but where is the challenge in that? But anyway, playing the ukulele is not easy.

Okay, bar chords. I bar the whole fret when I'm doing the B chords. I just find it easier and also it makes it simpler to go into a B7 and a B minor that way as well.

Hi, Choirguy!

Choirguy said:

I find myself in agreement with Barry Maz (gotaukulele) a lot, particularly with his rant about people thinking the ukulele is easy. Compared to a guitar with six strings (often metal), ukulele can be easier to get started with--but mastery of the instrument can take a lifetime. I would imagine that even the best player in the world (probably Jake Shimibukuro) would tell you that there are things he is still working on.

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Don't believe such rant. It is just a rant. He just confuses the difficulty of music and ukulele. Ukulele is music instrument. Music is difficult. Because it expresses our emotion but we can not see it. Ukulele is easy, much easier than other music instruments as people mentioned and people know that music is difficult.

In this thread, we are talking about Bb. It is difficult. The regular GCEA tuning is called perfect 4th tuning. It has prefect 4th intervals between 1-2, 3-4 strings. It has 3rd interval between 2-3 strings (See the red E in the figure below). If we have perfect 4th intervals between all of the strings (See "not" in the figure below), Bb shape becomes very difficult (See D'). The standard tuning makes Bb easier. Very clever tuning. I think this tuning makes ukulele easier too. Ukulele is easy but music is difficult.

images upload

Ukulele is C instrument which can play C, F and G easily. If we say that ukulele is difficult instrument, we have no easy instruments. We should not confuse the difficulty of music and ukulele.

Can't 'make banana' shape with index finger or in fact any
Straight regardless of pressure, so I presume we all have unique dexterity, and I'm at the not-dexterous end.
Perhaps there are specific exercises to help, although not keen on taking any joint beyond it's natural range

Rllink said:

"Easy" is a deceptive word. You use the same four fingers on both. So I would not be so quick to make the comparison that a ukulele is easier.

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I have had my steel string acoustic guitar for a few weeks now, and I feel that the ukulele is much easier to learn. It's not even close. But it's not chiefly the number of strings that make the ukulele easier to progress with. The tension of steel strings on a typically 25.4" scale is much higher, and even when the instrument is set up well with low action, you need much more finger strength to cleanly fret and especially barre. People complain about sore fingers on low tension nylon/fc strings, but steel strings are ten times worse. The string spacing is typically also more narrow on acoustic guitars, and it's easy to mute strings accidentally, and on classical guitars you have a massively wide fretbroad, making it harder again. Frets are huge on even a shorter scale guitar (like mine with 24") and you have to stretch more for basic chords. Then, and that's where six strings make things harder, various of the basic first position chords require the player to only play some of the strings (e.g. 5 strings for the C chord and 4 strings for the D chord -- two of the chords taught right at the start). Hitting only some of the strings when strumming is tough when you're just starting out and barely manage consistent up and down strums.

I agree that when you're an advanced player, the differences in difficulty diminish. An expert player is an expert player, regardless of the instrument. But I feel that the beginner to intermediate journey is easier on the ukulele. It's a more approachable, more accessible instrument that lets you have fun much sooner and with far fewer technical hurdles to overcome. You can play three-chord songs on a guitar too, but those three chords are harder to make and harder to strum. Plus, guitars are unwieldy. Mine's a little smaller than a typical folk guitar (not by much), and it's still a monster compared to my ukes. I can grab a uke, take it anywhere and sit down anywhere and just noddle. With a guitar? It doesn't lend itself quite as well to spontaneously having fun and making music.

No doubt in my mind that someone coming from guitar to ukulele has an easier time than someone learning ukulele first and then guitar. Just practicing guitar for a few weeks daily has really improved my ukulele playing. Trying to learn barre chords on six steel strings greatly benefits one's ability to bar four nylon/fc strings. It made me appreciate the accessibility and friendliness of ukuleles even more. I can play a Bb chord on the ukulele without trouble, and can switch to it smoothly, but the very same shape on the acoustic guitar gives me a hard time. I still can't play it cleanly.

monkeyboyo said:

Can't 'make banana' shape with index finger or in fact any

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Yes, it is difficult. But you can do it. You need to make a lever. Thumb is fulcrum, elbow is effort and fingers are load. This lever expands your fingers and make banana. It is not only the fretboard work, my friend needs good right hand support of the ukulele too.

Me and my friend has had two hour sessions twice a week last three months. He practice a lot besides our sessions too. It is not easy for him too.

One of the biggest lessons I learned regarding Barring chords came from a teaching session with Craig Chee. He had the advantage of being able to demonstrate it as he explained, but I will give it a shot...

Use your right forearm (assuming you are fretting with your left hand) to clamp your ukulele (below the bridge) to your body. Kind of like you are giving your ukulele a hug with your forearm. As you do this you will notice that the neck of your ukulele pushes away from your body. Use this pressure to push against your finger(s) to assist in your barre.

This was a huge help when it came to fatigue in my fretting hand. Utilizing this method, I have been able to barre chords without any effort/strain on my thumb. In fact, I can remove my thumb from the back entirely and still get a clean barre. I am still working on the technique and how to transition it from my practice sessions to playing in a song more smoothly. I am getting better, but more importantly, my barres sound much better and with less strain on my hands. Feel free to ask me a question if what I typed didn't make sense.

I found this short video by Phil Doleman helpful: Two Minute Tips: #13 The Bb Chord .

I also followed a recommendation somewhere to spend a minute each day on simple barres, just the first finger, starting at the 7th fret and moving up the neck to the second. Do this a couple of times, and don't worry if it is not perfect. To start with you can use your second finger on top of the first as reinforcement - this helps a lot. After a week or two you will have developed a bit of strength (or maybe it is just the knack) and you can include the first fret which is the hardest. Don't overdo it or you'll end up with hand or thumb strain. This certainly worked for me, and I now quite comfortable with barre chords and don't need a great deal of pressure..

Maybe you need to check your hand position? I push my wrist out slightly, bringing my fingers a little more over the fingerboard. We are all different, though. I generally use a half barre on Bb but definitely no banana shape! Judging by zztush's white finger tips he is using pressure than I do, too.

Hi, monkeyboyo!

Make a banana on your desk first. Just be careful the direction of the power (red arrow). After you've got used to it on your desk, go back to your fretboard.

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Basically, that looks like you should press with the root of your finger/hand, rather than the finger tip.

uke1950 said:

Basically, that looks like you should press with the root of your finger/hand, rather than the finger tip.

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This has only recently started to dawn on me, but I think the key is to use the large muscle groups in the arm as a source of strength when fretting, instead of trying to do it (just) with the hand. A good way to experience and practice this is by making bar chords (and other difficult chords) with only the fingers, without the thumb playing a major role. Try it without the thumb touching the neck at all, though it should be behind the neck. Squeezing the neck between fingers and thumb is the intuitive approach, but I'm not sure it's the best way, especially with speed in mind. It's easier when the strength/force comes from the muscles in the arm. (If you do it right, you'll feel the muscles in the arm instead of experiencing strain in the wrist.)

Mivo said:

This has only recently started to dawn on me, but I think the key is to use the large muscle groups in the arm as a source of strength when fretting, instead of trying to do it (just) with the hand. A good way to experience and practice this is by making bar chords (and other difficult chords) with only the fingers, without the thumb playing a major role. Try it without the thumb touching the neck at all, though it should be behind the neck. Squeezing the neck between fingers and thumb is the intuitive approach, but I'm not sure it's the best way, especially with speed in mind. It's easier when the strength/force comes from the muscles in the arm. (If you do it right, you'll feel the muscles in the arm instead of experiencing strain in the wrist.)

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Your main 'finger muscles' are actually in your forearm One tip that I have found helpful with barring is to apply some downforce - i.e. pull down toward the ground with the arm. Let gravity take some of the strain

jollyboy said:

Your main 'finger muscles' are actually in your forearm One tip that I have found helpful with barring is to apply some downforce - i.e. pull down toward the ground with the arm. Let gravity take some of the strain

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Yep, exactly -- your description is better than mine. The difference is noticeable in how it feels (arm vs. wrist) and there is no squeezing, with the thumb playing a much more passive role.

New here; good advice, and thanks for that.

I've never had trouble with B chords, but I'll tell you: Fm6 is the most difficult thing I've ever come across. If anyone has any tricks for pulling off that abomination, please, please let me know! Difficulty stems from the same problem -- effectively barring the top fret, while still reaching the 2nd fret on the C and 3rd on the A.

I found double-wrapping your index finger with a couple condoms helps greatly. Seems like pink ones work best. NO!!! I jest. But seriously, I've found barre chords and the act of switching to/from them is one of the most challenging things so far in my uke journey. But SO worth it once you get comfortable and wonder why it was so hard to begin with. LOL

Good luck!

Don't know if OP is still around, but it's been a couple of years. How's it going now?