If the instrument is good, does the maker matter to you?

hmm... if there was a uke maker then, that was a jerk but made great instruments. and then later repented and starting doing great things for the environment and to support the community, would you buy a uke made during the black period?

spookelele said:

hmm... if there was a uke maker then, that was a jerk but made great instruments. and then later repented and starting doing great things for the environment and to support the community, would you buy a uke made during the black period?

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Lol. Sure. Of course. (Are we talking about anyone specific here, or is this a theoretical question? )

I'm buying a musical instrument not someone's politics or religious affiliation. I want an instrument that sounds good and does the job I'm buying it for. If they give poor service in any way - including making snide comments about others, then I might think twice about buying from them. All my instruments are mid price so I'm buying from retailers rather than makers - with one exception, a certain small German maker who makes modestly priced good quality instruments. If I was buying a luthier made instrument, then my choice would depend on the quality of their instruments but also their approach to me as a potential customer.

Bill1 said:

I suspect some makers are reading this thread and noting some techniques to use to get certain annoying customers to go away. Maybe publishing a religious or political affiliation is a great way to narrow the potential buyers down to people who are actually interested in buying a musical instrument to play, and get rid of all the people who want a pretty wooden box or to add on a lot more baggage into the sale?
Maybe that example of lousy service is a subtle hint that they don't need or want your business, or your time wasting comments and questions?
The buying process has two sides a buyer and a seller. Sellers have as many negative opinions about buyers as is the reverse. Buyers who don't pay on time, who have no idea what they are trying to buy, who have unrealistic expectations? Often the religion and politics aspect is just an excuse to hide a huge mistake or error or example of being rude perpetrated by the buyer, and the real reason for a failed transaction is never fully disclosed in a forum like UU. So you really do need to take most of the comments in this thread with a grain of salt and do your own research and put in some effort as a buyer to be polite and respectful and pay on time, to get the best deals you will ever find in buying a musical instrument.

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I may not agree with all of this, but I would venture to say that when a buyer says they will take their business elsewhere some luthiers are more than happy. I have talked to more than one luthier who will not commission custom instruments anymore. I understand that it can be a no win situation for the seller as no matter what they build, it may never meet some people's expectations. And as the price goes up so do the expectations.

I would think the happiest/most satisfied luthiers are those that build what they want to build and still have enough of a market base to be profitable.

John

bearbike137 said:

Lol. Sure. Of course. (Are we talking about anyone specific here, or is this a theoretical question? )

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Ha! No. Just stirring the pot of thought.

janeray1940 said:

*raises hand* I believe that may have been me! And I considered bringing that up when I first responded to this thread, but I wasn't quite sure it was relevant. On second thought, perhaps it is.

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I hope that you don't mind me bringing it up, and I hope that I haven't misrepresented anything. When quickly retelling someone else's story, you never know what could get mixed up in the retelling.

Bill1 said:

I suspect some makers are reading this thread and noting some techniques to use to get certain annoying customers to go away. Maybe publishing a religious or political affiliation is a great way to narrow the potential buyers down to people who are actually interested in buying a musical instrument to play, and get rid of all the people who want a pretty wooden box or to add on a lot more baggage into the sale?
Maybe that example of lousy service is a subtle hint that they don't need or want your business, or your time wasting comments and questions?
The buying process has two sides a buyer and a seller.

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Yes, there are 2 sides, (or more, LOL), and I'm sure that a seller might at times prefer to lose a sale than to deal with certain people.

I'm not sure whose example of lousy service you were referring to, (and maybe not to any specific one), but in my case, when I never heard back after emailing, using the website contact form, and leaving a phone message, (all very polite), I had one simple question, (neck width), and was ready to purchase, paying in full for an expensive instrument. If that was wasting the seller's time, then it's just as well that I didn't hear back.

IMO, the ukulele market is too small for narrowing down buyers to those who are in agreement with your religious or political affiliations, but perhaps some sellers would agree with you that there is reason to do that to get rid of the pesky "other" possible buyers.

I agree, the ukuleles are a musical instrument to play. But they shouldn't carry the baggage of someone else's religious or political views when I buy them, IMO.

It's always interesting to hear other points of view, though.

Joyful Uke said:

I agree, the ukuleles are a musical instrument to play. But they shouldn't carry the baggage of someone else's religious or political views when I buy them, IMO.

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I quite agree...and if your product makes me immediately think of your religious or political views when I didn't want to, it's not something I'm going to purchase (or purchase again).

I couldn't buy anything from someone I didn't get on with...

Pete Howlett said:

I couldn't buy anything from someone I didn't get on with...

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That's pretty much it. The question that arises is what does it take for someone to decide that the seller is someone they don't get along with.

Virtually every one of us buy stuff from people who, if we knew who or what they were about in their life outside retail sales, we would head for the exit in a hot second. Where it begins to hit at home is when the seller/builder makes it a point to use our transaction as a platform to further an agenda that should be otherwise unrelated to the building/selling/buying dynamics.

I bought a custom mandolin from a fellow who I knew was a devout religious person who spent a fair amount of his waking hours trying to convert people from who they were to how he is. Perhaps he devined, in some manner, that I was not someone who would take to being "saved", but he did not thrust any part of his belief system on me and we got along well.

OTOH, my wife paid for the services of a massage therapist for several months until the therapist began introducing her approval of a reality TV actor as leader of the free world. My wife decided that she was paying for services that were intended to induce a relaxed state and that the sudden addition of background musings that were anything but relaxing to her crossed a very clear line in the sand. She announced, at the conclusion of the session, that she would no longer seek the massage therapist's services. The therapist couldn't understand what she might have done that could be a problem.

I pay for goods and services. If I want opinions or suggestions on how to view the world or live my life, I will seek them out on my own.

This thread has gotten a lot of responses, and I've enjoyed reading them all. There are some really interesting points and views being made here. Of course we don't all agree, but all of you have done a good job explaining your position and I can see where you're coming from.

On a personal level, I just made a purchase yesterday that brought some things into consideration that fit this thread.
I just bought my first Chinese made instrument in a long while (Cordoba). I avoided them for quite some time. I'm usually uncertain about the labor conditions and worrying if they're bad, and certainly don't approve of all of the rules, regulations and politics in China.. I won't go into detail there since we're not supposed to be discussing those kinds of things here.
Ultimately, I realize that I'll never know the individuals who made that uke. Really though, I'd guess they're just like me in the sense they're just trying to do what they need to do to get through life. Those people may or may not agree with the politics and such in their own country and don't have any control over it.. I don't always agree with what is going on here in the USA, but I don't have any individual control over that either...As for the company itself, I don't know much about them...but they seem decent. The seller I used (Elderly Instruments) is trusted as I've dealt with them many times.
My 2nd choice was an Ohana instrument. I didn't know anything about them previously, but after looking into their website and company I was at least impressed with what they had to say and what they were supposed to be about. Plus, their instruments seem to be a great value for what you get. If I had read something legit that disturbed me, I doubt I would've considered them.. So, for me, the maker, company selling, place I buy it from all do play some role.. I'd be lying if I said otherwise. I don't want to make a purchase that has some sort of negative feelings attached to it for whatever reason.
This is probably something I'll continue to ponder some, and the posts here have definitely spurred on some thought.

Lastly, I'd just like to say it is pretty cool how we've been able to discuss this here without things turning ugly so far....Maybe I should've left the thread alone and let it rest...haha. ..Hopefully not.

The problem with a brand like Ohana or most of the other made in China ukuleles is that there is no way to know who in China made the ukulele. It could be a single source or multiple sources. It is a factory. Do you know who exactly who in the factory made that particular Taylor or Gibson guitar? I'm sure it was a number of people and anyone, or all of them, could be right wing, left wing, religious, agnostic, gay, straight, druggie, or clean. I think factory production ukuleles do not fit this question.

John

Edit Added: Sent from my iphone that was made in China by who knows... or cares.

Hmmm... who here believes that any of the big brands have a 'luthier' behind an instrument? Furthermore, does it really matter as long as it is fit for purpose and you like it? Buying from an individual is a completely different vibe and one that is transacted for totally different reasons than buying from a company however big or small. I doubt if the same questions are asked of the suppliers of top of the range cars.... like "Who was the upholsterer who did the seat work 'cos I heard that Joe has good and bad days and I don't want one that was punched out on one of his bad days....." Quite frankly, it's not how we contract business in the retail realm with large scale manufacturers.

Pete Howlett said:

Hmmm... who here believes that any of the big brands have a 'luthier' behind an instrument? Furthermore, does it really matter as long as it is fit for purpose and you like it? Buying from an individual is a completely different vibe and one that is transacted for totally different reasons than buying from a company however big or small.

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Companies have public faces, philosophies, and they sometimes support causes, projects, and parties. Take Kanile'a, for example. I like Joe, and I think their reforestation efforts are noteworthy. Both aspects affect how I feel about the company and their products, and if I were to buy a Hawaiian K brand uke, I'd take this into consideration. If a company or their representatives support causes or projects that I disagree with, or they don't have pleasant personalities (which is of course subjective and also prone to misconceptions since there is no personal relationship with them involved), I am less likely to buy from them.

It's fundamentally the same with a one-person business: If an individual luthier expresses views I share, or they display an admirable attitude, there's a better chance I'll commission them when I look for a custom builder than a luthier who may make equally as good instruments but whose personality or attitude is less compatible with me (all provided I actually have an opinion of someone, which in many cases I don't).

My take on this isn't ukulele-specific. I'm generally more likely to buy from people or companies that appeal to me in some way, and less likely to buy from companies or people that don't. Often, though, I'm indifferent in the sense that I have no positive or negative views on people or companies. But when I do, it impacts how and where I spend money.

bborzell said:

.....I pay for goods and services. If I want opinions or suggestions on how to view the world or live my life, I will seek them out on my own.

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I apply that logic to musical and screen artists..too much political spout just turns me off. Just play!

70sSanO said:

(snipped) I think factory production ukuleles do not fit this question.

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I think it does. For example, one might choose to support a factory producer because of their corporate culture, such as Taylor with its contributions to more sustainable forestry. And Kanile'a for similar, more Hawaii-local impact. Or because they have earned a reputation to consistently excellent factory quality (e.g., Taylor, Collings, etc.).

By the same token, somebody might choose to avoid a factory producer because of certain corporate culture (e.g., overtly promoting a particular religion).

And to the original question, it does matter to me in several ways. There are a few luthiers that I have seen be very rude to people and I would not buy their instrument first or second hand, regardless of how good it sounds. And there are luthiers who I consider friends that I will continue to buy from because they make nice instruments and I think highly of them as people.

This has been a thoughtful and civilized discussion. If only the entire world were run by uke players, we'd all be better off.

When I was young, I realized that money buys a certain degree of freedom. If you have some money saved up, you can quit a job you hate. Move to a new place. Never get stuck somewhere (or with someone) because you can't afford to move on.

Now that I am (ahem) older, I realize that money also buys power. I can choose to put my hard-earned money where it supports people and organizations I want to thrive.

Does this mean I research every purchase? No. Sometimes I see something I want and buy it without worrying about the epic global consequences. Sometimes I'd rather save a few bucks even if that hurts small businesses that really need the money. But when I'm given a choice and some time to consider (and heaven knows, I am always considering more ukuleles) I certainly do prefer to buy from an individual luthier or a company that I admire.

Your money is powerful. It's going to go somewhere and do things. Where do you want it to go?

kohanmike said:

The knowledge I have of any of the companies or luthiers where I buy has only been about the instruments, so I have no other criteria on which to judge. I wouldn't even think about delving into their political, religious or personal details. But the way they conduct their business is another matter.

A few years ago I contacted three luthiers here in North America for feedback on a custom I wanted, two took a few days to respond and only gave me limited feedback, one did not return my contact. The only other one I contacted was Bruce Wei in Asia and he responded within hours with details about how he would do the build. I was impressed and went with him, he was also the lowest price. About 6 months later I got an email from the one who didn't respond asking if I was still interested in a build. If he took that long to respond, I figured he'd take forever to do a build (Bruce took only five months).

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I know this is an old thread, but how did you like the uke? The current running thread doesn't seem positive, but I'm still curious about your experience.

captain-janeway said:

I know this is an old thread, but how did you like the uke? The current running thread doesn't seem positive, but I'm still curious about your experience.

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Many of his opinions on the B Wei ukes here :

https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?137094-Updated-Bruce-Wei-Consensus

captain-janeway said:

I know this is an old thread, but how did you like the uke? The current running thread doesn't seem positive, but I'm still curious about your experience.

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Old thread, yet I agree with the sentiment entirely. If the instrument is good then I don't care who made it.

I have bought quite a few Brucewei instruments over the years too. They were a little hit and miss. Some of them are very, very fine instruments right up there will high dollar customs. Some had serious faults.

I've been doing some fretwork on a couple of them and a little filing of fretboard ends and some unorthodox bridge adjustments. They're coming good again and play and sound very good. They're just not always perfect as you receive them.

Brucewei quality has definitely picked up lately and I haven't bought a new one for a couple of years either. My two bobs worth is that if you want a good player then buy one that LOOKS like a good player. The Hawaii Island sound hole instruments may look fantastic yet seem to be a little problematic as players.