Where do they go?

bacchettadavid said:

... I'll try to summarize why I think players quit. The ukulele, with its shallow initial learning curve and relative mechanical simplicity, offers ways to circumvent many of these reasons, but its approachable nature can also lead many players to run headlong into their first wall without the proper equipment to scale it...

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Great post. I think few people in the mainland USA approach ukulele with the commitment they give to, say, piano or violin. The school marching band does not need uke players. On the good side, this means few kids feel railroaded into practicing ukulele. On the bad side, beginners don't know how to make progress. Getting onto the ukulele path is easy. Buy a uke and an instruction book. And then... what? Most of us don't have specific goals or anyone to push us forward. Meanwhile, we are busy people with other things competing for our attention.

Ukuleles are not the only things abandoned. All those guitars and saxophones. Woodburning sets. Tennis rackets. Watercolor paints. Yarn. This is not only a 21st Century problem, though it is fun to blame iPhones for short attention spans. People have always dabbled in things that seemed interesting at first but didn't work out. I don't really think of this as a tragedy. It would be far worse to never try anything new.

I teach beginner juggling workshops. There's always somebody who asks if I think everybody can learn to juggle. I say yes, but... some people get it faster than others (and there's no predicting who) and some people are more determined. At some point, if it takes too long and you're not motivated to practice, then no, you will not learn to juggle. Not because you can't, but because you choose not to invest the time. Which is perfectly OK and entirely rational.

IMHO we sabotage beginners when we keep telling them uke is easy. People try playing for a few weeks, get discouraged and conclude they have no talent. There must be a happy medium between promising instant success and prescribing a years-long instructional plan.

acmespaceship said:

Ukuleles are not the only things abandoned. All those guitars and saxophones. Woodburning sets. Tennis rackets. Watercolor paints. Yarn. This is not only a 21st Century problem, though it is fun to blame iPhones for short attention spans. People have always dabbled in things that seemed interesting at first but didn't work out. I don't really think of this as a tragedy. It would be far worse to never try anything new.

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First, thank you for reading my wall of text. I was tempted to mention iPhones, operant conditioning, and delayed gratification in my post, but I thought better of it. My text wall was already rant-y enough. :deadhorse:

Re: saxophones and marching bands. I suspect any marching band that competes with varied non-athletic student clubs struggles to retain its members for more than a couple years. As testament to this fact, I have a dozen saxophones from area schools in need of light repair before the new school year (the students opted to drop band in favor of another activity). I don't think of this as a tragedy, just a reflection of the fact that choice breeds restlessness even as it offers up objects of passion.

I guess what I was trying to express in my rant was that, in the case of musical instruments, commitment is insufficient. The serious approach to violin and piano is undergirded by an enormous support network of teachers and pedagogical organizations, peers, tutor texts, repertoire, recitals, and professional incentives. This support structure simply doesn't exist for ukulele players, and as a result, many players who DO attempt to take the instrument more seriously (like rural pianists and violinists) run into unnecessary "d'oh!" moments and frustrating, demotivating roadblocks.

I believe retention is a collective effort. If we (the ukulele community in general) were better organized, new players might have an easier time coming to grips with the instrument.

acmespaceship said:

Great post. I think few people in the mainland USA approach ukulele with the commitment they give to, say, piano or violin. The school marching band does not need uke players. On the good side, this means few kids feel railroaded into practicing ukulele. On the bad side, beginners don't know how to make progress. Getting onto the ukulele path is easy. Buy a uke and an instruction book. And then... what? Most of us don't have specific goals or anyone to push us forward. Meanwhile, we are busy people with other things competing for our attention.

Ukuleles are not the only things abandoned. All those guitars and saxophones. Woodburning sets. Tennis rackets. Watercolor paints. Yarn. This is not only a 21st Century problem, though it is fun to blame iPhones for short attention spans. People have always dabbled in things that seemed interesting at first but didn't work out. I don't really think of this as a tragedy. It would be far worse to never try anything new.

I teach beginner juggling workshops. There's always somebody who asks if I think everybody can learn to juggle. I say yes, but... some people get it faster than others (and there's no predicting who) and some people are more determined. At some point, if it takes too long and you're not motivated to practice, then no, you will not learn to juggle. Not because you can't, but because you choose not to invest the time. Which is perfectly OK and entirely rational.

IMHO we sabotage beginners when we keep telling them uke is easy. People try playing for a few weeks, get discouraged and conclude they have no talent. There must be a happy medium between promising instant success and prescribing a years-long instructional plan.

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Making progress, or the lack there of, has been mentioned twice. An interesting concept in itself. I think that a lot of people can't measure progress because they don't know where they are going in the first place. How do you know if you are getting there if you don't know where it is? I think much of the problem is that people set themselves up for failure, by trying to win in some way, something that can not be won. Playing the ukulele is not a sport. You don't finish. Do you ever get done learning how to play the ukulele? It is a lifetime of learning? I always find it interesting that so many people need some sort of quantification and labeling process to measure their progress toward something that doesn't even exist. When they come to the realization that they can't ever win they stop trying. When I use a sports analogy to tell people what playing the ukulele is all about, I tell people that it isn't a 10k where you try to cross the finish line with a personal best each and every time you go out, it is more like yoga, where you make a long term commitment to your well being.

In regards to all those other instruments, and the support, or lack of support, for them. There is a saxophone, a trumpet, a violin, a keyboard, and an old guitar in my basement. All instruments that my kids were going to learn to play, either pressured into, or because they thought that it sounded fun until they started doing it.

It's been around ten years for me since I first got
my hands on a soprano, and I think I am getting the
hang of it! I simply enjoy the range and versatility of
the little beasts, and nothing could put me off my love
for them! But as in the previous posts, I have friends
'think they will give it a shot' but somehow, never get
around to it!

I still play everyday. The uke never seems to get old for me. I have played guitar for 50+ years. I rediscovered the uke 10 years ago. I can't imagine life without music. I still read the new posts on the forum, but I don't post as much as I used too. I am here to help anyone with a question though.

Rllink said:

Anyway, on the same note, whenever a tread gets resurrected from the beginner forum or uke talk, and I do not recognize the name of the OP, I go back and see when was the last time they posted anything. More often than not, they post for a month or two and then they are gone. I wonder where they go?

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I don't post as often these days due to technology issues. For some reason, my computer can't access this site at all anymore. (It's very old, so old OS and software.) I can read this site on my tablet, but not log in. Not sure why that is. It's not a password problem.

I am able to log in on the device I'm using right now, but don't know that I should go buy one of my own just for this purpose....

But, as others have mentioned, we can have so many demands on our time that sometimes participating in a forum has to take a lower priority.

Just a couple reasons that people who are still playing ukulele might not be as active here.

You should be able to log in from any computer, old software may have security risks if used for anything particularly important, like banking, but I wouldn't call forums particularly important.

uke1950 said:

You should be able to log in from any computer, old software may have security risks if used for anything particularly important, like banking, but I wouldn't call forums particularly important.

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I can't access UU at all from my old computer. There must have been some change in the set up here? I just get a message that the connection was reset. No change in a firewall or anything on my end, unless my ISP made some change. (Could be, I suppose.)

I have no idea why I can read UU from my tablet but not log in, but that's the case there.

It all works from the device I'm using now, so I know I've got my password correct.

I don't do banking or other sensitive stuff online, so that part doesn't worry me.

I been on the forum for awhile, and used to post a lot, because I felt I had more to contribute. After a stroke, and limitations on projects I used to work on, just felt I didn't have as much to contribute. I am a life long musician myself, and been playing the uke for some time now, and even though I can not play as I used to, I still do. My youngest (daughter) is also a life long musician, and has played guitar since she was 7 (now 20), but since she been out of school for 3 years now, and now on her own, I don't get to spend the time with her playing as we used to, even though we do every so often. Life has been fast for her and she doesn't play as much as she did. She used to be surgically connected to her guitar, as it was rarely out of her hands, but adult life for her she realizes she has life to live along side of her music. We relocated recently and I do not have the exposure to kids as much as when she was young, that I used to enjoy spending time with teaching to play like I did where we lived and where my daughter went to school. So, basically, life changes, and as it does, changes things. But, that doesn't mean we gave up on music, it just means we have to share our time with other things as well. As for myself, I do stop by and read, lurk here, but again, rarely post. But I do pick up my uke and play several times a week, usually just tinkering around with it by myself, and wife.

"Well, the ukulele did become fashionable for a while....."
I assume you are talking about your own experience. The ukulele is as popular here as ever, and is gaining new beginners every week. TBUS is still growing, events are still being added.
I think that some of the attrition in Ukulele World is due to the fact that people are looking for the next bigger, better, shinier object. We're basically an unhappy lot.
Why?
Because, from my perspective, we are selfish. If I was just playing ukulele for myself, I think I'd have quit by now. I started playing because I wanted a hobby, but more than that, I wanted to make other people feel better.
This burning desire has pushed on me gently but persistently. The more I play for others, the more I enjoy the ukulele.
I've forced myself to overcome horrible stage fright. This little girl who was afraid of her own shadow is now considered outgoing by her peers.
Starting a jam session was hard. It's still hard leading it. Playing in a group is easier, and gives me the feeling of being part of a team, which is going to help me in my business.
This just isn't for everyone. It certainly isn't going to appeal for very long to a person who doesn't give a hoot about others, or improving her playing.
The people that hang around are caring, considerate folks who make time to be here and feel and share in the sense of community.
There are only 4 or 5 out of over 1400 of our club's members who bother with UU. Go figure.

Great question and great premise for a thread.

I am one of those former newbies who got all excited about the uke when I first realized I could play it pretty well without a lot of effort. I had been a professional drummer and applied my knack for cool rhythms to it, so early on, I sounded like I knew what I was doing. I couldn't put it down for a long time, and I soon owned four, including a "pocket-sized" one to play in my car.

Then I heard a few other guys play - most notably, former guitar players who could REALLY get around the instrument. Pretty much cut me down in my tracks. Then a year or two went by and I had no motivation to get any better. Then my grandchildren reached the age where they would no longer sit and watch me play, but would immediately want to grab the instrument from me and start banging it over a chair for laughs.

Before long, my ukes were all sitting either in cases or on couches around the house, getting picked up mostly while I waited (and waited and waited) for my wife to get ready to go out somewhere. I'm still pretty good with it, but I find myself playing the same handful of chords and licks over and over.

The uke served a need for me when I finally started yearning to make music again after about ten years retirement from the music business. It gave me an excuse to go into music stores again, learn lifelong favorite songs on a new instrument, and participate in forums like this one. After several years as a member of UU, I still visit and browse every once in a while, but I have nothing new to say, no desire to learn about and/or buy different types of ukes, and VERY little to add to the discussions going on here.

Lastly, as I have found out the hard way on another (unrelated) forum I used to frequent, when you run out of productive things to say and you force yourself to participate anyway, somewhere along the line you are going to lower your standards, get lax with your self-sensoring, and start offending people unintentionally. So, while I still love the uke, these days I choose not to talk about it so much!

I joined this forum back in 2010 or so. I started to play the ukulele and continue to learn as I go. I went back to school, not once but twice, back to work and now through some big family stuff so lots of changes over the years. I can't say that I have not been consistent with it all the time, and I have not progressed as I wish. Though, I still find a lot of joy in strumming away. I do not have as much time to visit the forums, though I have connected with many members and stay in touch via other platforms too. So yes, for me, still plucking away.

There are a lot of forks in this conversation...and I have been tempted to respond to a few of them in an agresssive way. I think I am overtired as we decided, on a whim, to drive down and see the Iowa Cubs and the fireworks show in Des Moines last night, and to drive back the same night. We got back to our home in the suburbs of the Twin Cities just short of 4am and didn't quite get a full night's rest.

As for activity on the forums, I haven't been posting as much because fewer conversations are of interest to me. I'm not saying they are not interesting...just not my thing. And to be honest, I had one bad interaction with a UUer that is still sticking with me, and comes to mind every time I read one of their posts. As a middle school teacher, I am anything but over-sensitive, but I find it interesting how one exchange with one person can taint your view of a larger thing. That's probably a good thing for me (and all of us) to keep in mind in our own lives as well.

There has been a hint lately of a condescending tone towards people that "just" strum and sing. I would hope that isn't the case, as getting together to strum and sing is a central part of all of the ukulele jams I have attended and seen online. Furthermore, strumming inevitably leads to other things, such as playing with chord melody, finger picking, etc.

I am in the process of expanding my own abilities, learning other chord positions, playing chord melodies, and finger picking. But I am a singer (could you tell from my user name?) and it seems to me that the people who sneer a bit at strummers can't actually sing that well themselves. So what I am saying is that there ought to be space for all of us to do whatever we want on these little boxes (Have you seen the Bacon Brothers video?)

Finally, just a reminder that there is an ARMY of young players out there who could care less about "This Land is My Land" or your version of "My Ukulele Gently Weeps." They are seeking instruction to play the music they want to play on YouTube, which is why John Atkins (The Ukulele Teacher) was able to quit his job and spend his whole life making ukulele videos.

And also don't forget that Ukulele Underground's purpose is to foster the next generation of ukulele players...

I teach ukulele to over 370 students a year...they don't really have a choice in the matter. But I can tell you that about 30-40 run with it (about 10%), and another 40% learn the basics well enough to be able to pick up the instrument again in the future.

Rollie, I commend you for your work in helping others to learn the instrument...don't take their loss of interest personally. Teach them the basics, try to make it fun, and give them the ability to come back to it on their own in the future...whether we are talking about kids or adults.

This past week, a small group of us performed for some vets at the vet home, and one of the activity directors who had been there two weeks ago had gone out, bought a ukulele, learned a few chords, and played along with us on a few songs. How great is that? That is what it is all about.

"Carrie looks forward to playing more when her stress levels drop down to Nuclear range..."

Carrie, has been excitedly playing my lovely Koaloha daily for the last five days. Doesn't make me much better than I was, but I have sure had fun. Amazing what five days off from work can do to a girls attitude! And playing time!


[/QUOTE]

Tudorp said:

I been on the forum for awhile, and used to post a lot, because I felt I had more to contribute. After a stroke, and limitations on projects I used to work on, just felt I didn't have as much to contribute. I am a life long musician myself, and been playing the uke for some time now, and even though I can not play as I used to, I still do. My youngest (daughter) is also a life long musician, and has played guitar since she was 7 (now 20), but since she been out of school for 3 years now, and now on her own, I don't get to spend the time with her playing as we used to, even though we do every so often. Life has been fast for her and she doesn't play as much as she did. She used to be surgically connected to her guitar, as it was rarely out of her hands, but adult life for her she realizes she has life to live along side of her music. We relocated recently and I do not have the exposure to kids as much as when she was young, that I used to enjoy spending time with teaching to play like I did where we lived and where my daughter went to school. So, basically, life changes, and as it does, changes things. But, that doesn't mean we gave up on music, it just means we have to share our time with other things as well. As for myself, I do stop by and read, lurk here, but again, rarely post. But I do pick up my uke and play several times a week, usually just tinkering around with it by myself, and wife.

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Tudorp,

Good to hear from you again. I remember your projects and your daughter's love for the guitar. Sorry to hear about your stroke. I'm glad to hear you still play. Hang in there and God bless.

John

I've been playing the ukulele for 10 years after a lot of years playing guitar. I don't post as much as I used to, but I play often... daily in spurts and then once or twice a week or so at other times.

I have been playing fingerstyle melodies for almost as long and the easiest way to get out of a rut is to hear a song and then go and see what is out there. Sometimes I just work the melody from the chords and sometimes I'll search YouTube to find an arrangement or two, three and pirate from them to put the basic song together. I'll modify or add as I work through it.

For the most part I have committed everything to memory, so there are some songs that I forget and they fall by the wayside. Occasionally I'll try to go through as many songs in one session as I can remember. For me it is really about havng fun and keeping it simple. I have no desire to make significant improvements, just want to maintain what I have and keep adding songs.

John

Try playing classical repertoire transcribed for the ukulele on a soprano. That's what I solely practice. Classical guitar fingerpicking technique on a small fretboard.

It is a challenge and that's what pushes me onto uke. Other than that I have no other interest in it. The occasional forum visit, may be I'm compelled to post. I used to be all into a uke brand and collection and trying out different makes. You know what, I'm more interested in developing skill on a laminate makala than just strum on a kamaka.

Also, piano is my main passion. Everything about it.

@Choirguy: beautiful post.

<snip>

Choirguy said:

This past week, a small group of us performed for some vets at the vet home, and one of the activity directors who had been there two weeks ago had gone out, bought a ukulele, learned a few chords, and played along with us on a few songs. How great is that? That is what it is all about.

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Thank you.

Choirguy said:

As for activity on the forums, I haven't been posting as much because fewer conversations are of interest to me. I'm not saying they are not interesting...just not my thing. And to be honest, I had one bad interaction with a UUer that is still sticking with me, and comes to mind every time I read one of their posts. As a middle school teacher, I am anything but over-sensitive, but I find it interesting how one exchange with one person can taint your view of a larger thing. That's probably a good thing for me (and all of us) to keep in mind in our own lives as well.

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I get this exactly. It's not necessarily such a big thing in itself, but it puts some brakes on coming back so often, which sometimes is the first step to withdrawing completely. You visit less, you find it doesn't make a difference, and you visit even less.

And great point about repertoire. One of the biggest reasons I initially got involved here more was that I could pick songs that were not essentially associated with uke, do them for a Seasons, and have people not say "That is so crazy" but either "Cool - a Television song" or, even better yet, "I didn't know that artist, but it sounds good." That's still the reason I sometime contribute.

I guess as people and their lives evolve, their choices include using this forum differently or dropping away. I will say that I have met some absolutely wonderful people through UU, and, for that, I am deeply grateful.