Designing for Disappointment

Pete Howlett

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Not many of my contemporaries actively participate here; we've either said it all, have lost interest or are too busy. Unlike them, I am not circumspect when it comes to observation neither am I shy of controversy, poking the bear or stiring ther hornet's nest. However, everything I say is merely my opinion and it works for me and is not meant as a criticism of your values and ideas. One thing that keeps crafts alive is the constant challenging of tradition and received wisdom.

So, 'bout 5 years ago I was entrenched in the 'koa/mahogany only construction makes a real ukulele'. Bit narrow but I think I argued the position well. However because of CITES, the astronomical price of koa and the growing awareness of a whole new wave of players looking for a different sound something had to give! Eating my hat I tried the spruce top/hardwood back and sides combo and found it worked.

I don't design for disappointment which of course is my code for experiment or work with clients realising their ideas. I am not that brave - it is only 2 years ago that I started taking a regular salary doing what I have always done - small batch production of tried and tested designs. My focus has been paying down business debt and to do that you have to make payroll! If you called me then, as now I certainly would not entertain any unusual wood combinations, neck length or nut and saddle widths. - I find it very disruptive altering jigs and tools. And when I did try to satisfy a client's whims, usually out of financlial desperation, I often fell short of the client's expectations. I guess I am just not wired to do that type of work.

Working full time at this, trying to make a salary involves little risk taking. Up until very recently, innovation to me, equaled risk. In the last 2 years I had to focus on production because I had to pay my employees. However, they have gone, the debt is all but paid and now I can relax. Nevertheless, instead of going crazy I am still risk averse and will until the last instrument I ever build leaves my bench, design for certainty. All of you amateur luthiers out there keep going, keep experimenting, ignore what we say. You want to feed yourself with this business and not end up like the countless also-rans who thought they could do it, avoid the amateurs luxury of being able to design for disappointment :) Avoid risk... avoid the client 'who knows better than you what they want'. An established builder once said to my friends at SUS, "We don't ask the client what they want... we tell them what they want!". I'm with him :)
 
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From the customers point of view there are lots of respected high end builders that follow your way and others that will customize. Depending on what I want I can choice to deal with either type of builder. Mya Moe was very successful following your formula Pete. You got what they offered, no fat necks, different fret wires, sound ports (pitty that one) etc. , etc. Or someone like David Ingalls who will customize to a certain point and seems successful doing that. I have owned ukes from both builders..........wonderful instruments all.
 
I think the MyaMoe model is very interesting because it allows the customer to 'design' their 'own' uke within some carefully defined constraints. Very clever!
 
You mean it is like the only Henry Ford line- "You can have a car in any color you want as long as it is black"

I always enjoy your perspective. Certainly some people want something different just to be different and want to disregard experience. It is really worth it to work with someone who has had countless instruments pass through their hands and who knows what the results will be rather than take a chance on "what if...?" Also tougher for you to experiment as your name is on it. If it doesn't turn out right, the customer is unhappy and others who play it will think poorly of your work. After that the only choice may be the fireplace.
 
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Pete's point about professionals needing to be conservative is important. If an experiment doesn't work, they have to fix it or refund the customer. That's not a feasible business model.

But amateurs like me (motto: No Two Ever The Same) can play around to our heart's content. Just as examples:

1. I made an all-Western Red Cedar soprano which sounds pretty good, and whose owner is very fond of it. But it's horrible wood to bend, and even nastier to carve a neck from. Not recommended.

2. I made an all-oak camp uke, which Phil Doleman owns and tells me he plays quite a bit. That sounds really good, and the wood was a pleasure to work with (carving the neck was some effort because oak is hard, but it carves cleanly).

FWIW, I've found that spruce tops on figure 8 sopranos sound shrill and jangly (though they work well on tenors). However, for a soprano cigar box or camp shape, spruce works really well.
 
I actually take offense at the comment about professionals having to be conservative or that those who do experiment are amateurs.

My partner makes his living (full time) as a ukulele luthier. He has built nearly 500 instruments and has *never* run his business at a loss. He has paid people in the past but has not amassed business debts.

I'm not naming him here because (though many of you will know who he is) I am speaking for myself.

I think that attempts at professional luthiery are as personal as the man (or woman) behind them. Some will work on set models and even those will often lead to disappointment. I have been been disappointed and thrilled by ukes by many professional makers over the years. Some will experiment. Others, like my partner, will make ukes to unique specifications. But to call considered use of materials informed by decades of experience as a luthier and chartered engineer is to belittle that work.

I honestly do not understand why there is a need to be so expansively negative taking sly digs at other people.

Pete - everyone respects your work and appreciates what you have done for the ukulele world but there are other professional luthiers and they do not deserve to be even indirectly disparaged for daring to feed their children with the work for their hands.

Everyone else, if you want to take issue with this post, feel free but remember that I too am human.

I welcome debate but I am increasingly tired with the negativity of social media.

-Mary Agnes Krell
 
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I find a lot to agree with in Mary Agnes's response. I know both Pete and the other (unnamed) uke maker personally, and have a deep respect for their work. Pete's comments apply to Pete alone. He has a certain approach to his business and to his dealings with customers and prospective customers.

Other professional builders will have a different approach, depending on their own attributes, opinions, and how they view their customers. Don't take it personally, M.A. It's only one man's opinion. As they say, YMMV, and in this area of human endeavour, it certainly will.

All my best to you and the "mystery" man. (Who WAS that masked luthier?:))

John Colter
 
Oh Colt!

You are always so thoughtful and so spot on!
:)

I appreciate you (as always).
And I do appreciate all of you luthiers.
Many a happy memory at Hollesley and elsewhere seeing everyone's creations.

<faith in humanity temporarily restored>
mx
 
Dear Mary Agnes, I had no intention to dig at your partner. Sorry if it came over that way. I had in mind the generality of builders, who tend to build to a reasonably standardised set of designs, and suggested why. To build a business as your partner has is truly admirable, but you must admit he is quite unusual in what he has done and how he goes about it. I regularly sing his praises and only today recommended him to someone who was looking for something out of the ordinary.

So, correction: most professionals tend to be conservative, but some experiment. Experimentation is commercially risky, so those who succeed at it are well worthy of admiration.
 
Such an interesting thread... Pete once said a couple of years back that a student luthier should build a fixed model design of an ukulele over and over again without changes until you get it right. He was criticized at the time by some for being too restrictive. However I think he made a good point. The point being that you need to learn how to build a structurally sound instrument before you start adding the doo-dads and the odd shapes etc. This is sound advice (ha!). It should be remembered that lutherie is a trade just like laying bricks or building houses. You gotta learn your chops and that means boring repetitive work. In other words: do it over and over and over again. Boring!

I don't consider myself a luthier. I made and sold a few ukes sure, but I don't do it for a living. My ukes are one offs. Making and selling ukes as a way to make a living is a whole nother kettle of fish and it would do well to listen to a pro like Pete. If I was a young person who really wanted to make my living making stringed acoustic instruments my advice would be: Seek another trade because like all artists, you are going starve. Sell insurance instead. If you do decide you want to be a luthier I recommend you take Pete's advice and build the same design over and over again until you get it right. Then you can inlay the penguins and do the dodads that we all love.
 
Mary

As you have named me I will respond.

No one except you could possible construe that I was having a dig/criticising or otherwise what others do. At the front of my piece I clearly state this.

Rob entered the scene long after the pioneers like myself. Standing on the shoulders of giants (and I am simply using a metaphor here - let's make this VERY clear) is a great way to get going. I did it. Most of us have. He would not have suervived in 1994 when there was no internet or direct means of promoting yourself. Bragging that he has no business debt and has always paid his staff ignores the fact that he had a previous well paid job and was running his busienss in tandem with this before he went full time. He was set to go when making ukulele full time became a viable business model. Before then I had tried 4 times to get going in the UK and this despite my high profile clients and reputation. It just was not doable in the UK to make it as a sole ukuele builder before 2006. Some of us have not had this. He had a great idea as 'tin guitar' and develooped it into a uke business with good business acumen. Well done. I remember him pulling up to my shop in his Lotus (previous well paid job perk I guess) to visit with me... Not many luthiers out there driving one of those eh? And I am not poking you in the ribs - when you tell a story, tell all of it. It's a pity Rick Turner doesn't post here any more - he would tell you that to be successful in this business I (and this is for all those grunt workrs like me who don't do that brilliant inlay stuff) you have to have an independent income...

Great that he and others experiment. Great that he jumped in full-time and the right moment. Great you both have businesses that indulge your passion for ukuleles. Great that you post your thoughts here...But for crying out loud, stop looking for offence where none is intended, criticism where none is implied and just chill gal! We know who you are, that what you and Rob do is a good job. No-one, especially me is trying to chop you off at the knees. I have and will always have my opinion. As an American citizen Mary, you must respect my right to express it. Don't confuse it with THE opinion if there ever is such a thing. We and me specifically are not 'out to get you'. I do wish you would understand this and stop these occassional outbursts that imply we and me specifically have some sort of sinister intent towards you and Rob. I can assure you that is not the case, has never been the case and will never be the case.

Just spread your arms out. See? There is room for everybody. And HEY, this goes for you all. When I post I am not shooting hidden barbs at anyone. If you know anything about me at all, you know I call a spade a spade and if I have anything to say to you personally, you'll get it in a PM.

I respect all who post in this forum. That we have strong views is great. Gone are the days when we had sniping garulous posts and pintless 'point scoring'. Please for Pity's sake (and I believe that Pity is a proper noun) let's avoid taking lumps out of each other. Life is far too short - as a cancer survivor, you of all people should know that Mary. And as someone who at one point was going to withdraw from ukulele promotion but had a change of heart, you are a shining example of tenacity and grit. Winning a Queen's award is no small thing - just let your light shine and we will all bask in the radiance of it :)

My very best wishes
Pete

So let's take a breath while I restate - Thank you all you experiment. Keep doing it. It's not for me and my initial post tells you why. Thanks Mary for explaining to us that successful luthiers like Rob can and do experiment. I take my hat off to him and them.
Y'all have a good day. I've got to find £540 to fund a repair bill for my CNC machine. Being a half-wit I misaligned the gantry by sending it beyond its limits one too many times!
 
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As an onlooker I am completely baffled by how anyone could take offence with the comments that had been posted by the Luthiers, whether they are part time ones or full time builders. All their comments seem logical enough to me and I’m often surprised with just how pleasant the conversation and remarks are on this social media site, I’ve posted on other sites of interest to me and few if any are as friendly.

Perhaps I’m insensitive, perhaps I don’t notice things, perhaps I’m thick skinned and perhaps sometimes all of those things are an asset. I’m amazed at how non-adversarial the responses from the Luthiers have been, there must be a lot of respect ‘cause elsewhere the responses would be far from it. If there’s ‘history’ please could it be left as such and undisturbed.
 
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I don't often post on here because if I don't just politely agree with stuff I get belittled, dismissed or told what to think.

You know what, I'll just go away and do what I do which is invest thousands of hours of my time helping uke players and makers from around the world to find audiences.

Thanks for basically making me feel like I don't belong on the UU folks.
Feeling the ukey love!

As an onlooker I am completely baffled by how anyone could take offence with the comments that had been posted by the Luthiers, whether they are part time ones or full time builders. All their comments seem logical enough to me and I’m often surprised with just how pleasant the conversation and remarks are on this social media site, I’ve posted on other sites of interest to me and few if any are as friendly.

Perhaps I’m insensitive, perhaps I don’t notice things, perhaps I’m thick skinned and perhaps sometimes all of those things are an asset. I’m amazed at how non-adversarial the responses from the Luthiers have been, there must be a lot of respect ‘cause elsewhere the responses would be far from it. If there’s ‘history’ please could it be left as such and undisturbed.
 
Mary Agnes said, "I actually take offense at the comment about professionals having to be conservative or that those who do experiment are amateurs."

With respect, M.A. (and I do have a lot of respect for you, and what you do) I can't see why you would interpret Pete's original post in that way. I took it that Pete was offering his opinion/advice on the subject. We can all take the option to disagree with opinion, and to disregard advice. I do it all the time!

Please don't think I'm siding with Pete against you - I'm not. Just stating my point of view.



ps. I can only assume that there must be a back story or subtext to this spat.
 
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I don't often post on here because if I don't just politely agree with stuff I get belittled, dismissed or told what to think.

You know what, I'll just go away and do what I do which is invest thousands of hours of my time helping uke players and makers from around the world to find audiences.

Thanks for basically making me feel like I don't belong on the UU folks.
Feeling the ukey love!

I suspect that the work you put into the Uke community is very, very respected and appreciated. If I could make you feel anything then it would be the appreciation felt by those people and that words of disagreement should not be taken as insults. A wise person once told me that we are often not able to control what happens to us in this life but we are able to control how we react to it; you can choose not to feel belittled, dismissed or told what to think, you have the power to do that.

If your posts on UU have not gone down well in the past then perhaps you might care to ask yourself whether you are interacting with this site correctly, and if you are not then how might you alter what you do. Without intending to be rude those are your choices and, of course, I genuinely wish you well and hope that posting on UU will become a happier experience for you. I’ve found a lot of good on this site and barely an adverse comment towards me so it must be possible for others to do so too.

Please will someone tell me where the ‘like button’ is for Timbucks post above - he must have entered his response whilst I was typing up mine.
 
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I actually take offense at the comment about professionals having to be conservative or that those who do experiment are amateurs.


I honestly do not understand why there is a need to be so expansively negative taking sly digs at other people.


-Mary Agnes Krell

As an 'on the fence' reader, and new hobby builder, I am confused by this response? What is there to be OFFENDED by?
I certainly can't find the part where Pete comments about professionals 'having' to be conservative, and I also recall his previous advice about people learning by repeating the task.

Pete clearly uses the word 'I' (which means 'him') when he explains his findings, actions and experiences that are personal to him.
Surely he can offer some words of experience advice on an open forum.

The reader has the right to agree, disagree, compare and contrast the reams of advice that is offered, allowing them to process their own rounded option. Its only talk!

I also struggled to find any sly digs at anyone? this actually comes across as a dig at Pete for openly voicing his opinions?

*these are also only 'my' thoughts on what I'm reading
 
Interesting, if someone doesn't break the mould, then they're doing it right, & the others might be wrong(?). :wallbash:

If that were the case, we'd still be living in the Stone Age, (or even before that!).

If I want a uke, I look for qualities that I want, & I can buy any number from quite a few different manufacturers that fit my needs.

Buying from a luthier, is a form of one upmanship, in the main, most to the average player just sound the same as the next uke.

Yes, It's a specialist trade, but if you want to do something the same all the time, that's where machines come into the equation, & costs can be reduced, & are, by mass production.

If I wanted something special, that would be when I'd look to a luthier, & I'd expect them to accommodate what I wanted, else I'd go elsewhere, it's as simple as that. :cool:
 
As a grumpy old due, I don't agree with everything another grumpy old dude says, yet, I'm old enough to know that there is much to be learn't from other grumpy old dudes so you don't need to start a fight with them ALL the time.
 
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