Are solid okoume Kmise ukes really solid?

emarcano

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Greetings to all,

I'm posting in this group since I've read several reviews, mostly good, of Kmise ukuleles. They advertise a "solid okoume" uke in ebay and other places. My UAS goes crazy when I see inexpensive "solid" ukes. So, against my better judgement, I decided to buy this $59, free shipping, uke from China. See below for the link to the uke I just bought where they prominently show a picture with "Solid Okoume.

I just got it today, and I really believe that this is NOT a solid wood top , but laminate (what was I expecting at this price?!). Please see the attached pictures to help me decide. Apologies that I don't have a better camera, just my phone. And I could only look into the top through the sound hole, as the edges have binding.

Picture 1 shows a lower darker layer below the fingerboard, and in picture 2 you can see right in the middle of the image, a different texture in the soundboard between the middle layer and the top and bottom layers.

What do you think? solid or laminate?

Thanks

Eugenio

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kmise-Tiger...463923&hash=item2cc097b666:g:KIgAAOSwi7RZNPzw

kmise_okoume_2.jpgkmise_okoume_1.jpgkmise_okoume_3.jpg
 
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Looks like it could be laminate to me i'm afraid - hard to tell precisely, but.. .

To be honest, nothing would surprise me with that particular company lately... I really am finding this current surge of new brand upon new brand from China utterly depressing. I am not down on China full stop - have reviewed some terrific Chinese instruments over the years ,but the current wave seem to come with some less than ethical marketing tactics.
 
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Greetings to all,

I'm posting in this group since I've read several reviews, mostly good, of Kmise ukuleles. They advertise a "solid okoume" uke in ebay and other places. My UAS goes crazy when I see inexpensive "solid" ukes. So, against my better judgement, I decided to buy this $59, free shipping, uke from China. See below for the link to the uke I just bought where they prominently show a picture with "Solid Okoume.

I just got it today, and I really believe that this is NOT a solid wood top , but laminate (what was I expecting at this price?!). Please see the attached pictures to help me decide. Apologies that I don't have a better camera, just my phone. And I could only look into the top through the sound hole, as the edges have binding.

Picture 1 shows a lower darker layer below the fingerboard, and in picture 2 you can see right in the middle of the image, a different texture in the soundboard between the middle layer and the top and bottom layers.

What do you think? solid or laminate?

Thanks

Eugenio

To my eyes it doesn’t look like a single piece of wood (what we would call solid wood) and it does look like laminate. I’m not an expert so could easily be wrong, but if that was sold in a U.K. shop I don’t believe it could legally be described as solid - the rules in other countries and ‘internet land’ differ.

I always take the view that if something is ‘too good to be true’ it’s because it isn’t true; I also take the view that, loss leaders aside, you don’t get what you don’t pay for. For the price what should anyone expect? In this case too we potentially have variations in what the same words mean to different people who’s ‘mother tongue’ is different, etc.

Are the Chinese unethical and aggressive in their marketing? I really wouldn’t say so (no one has) as that would be too sweeping a statement but without respect to country of origin some companies certainly are, I try to be aware of them and buy from someone else when possible.
 
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How does it sound and is it well made and easy to play? If so, that's what counts in my book.
 
You can see three distinct layers between the strings by the neck in the first shot, definately a laminate top, therefore suggests all laminate.
 
How does it sound and is it well made and easy to play? If so, that's what counts in my book.

Would that make it acceptable to advertise and sell a laminated uke as a solid wood instrument? I love my Famous FS-5G, which is laminated, and it sounds fantastic and plays well (and costs substantially more than Chinese BOTM ukes), but I bought it as such.

BOTM = Brand of the Month
 
I was a part of the group of people who tested the Kmise Spruce “solid top” instrument. It has a floral and fairy theme engraved in the top—this is the same company that makes the Cat ukulele that Barry once reviewed. The “solid spruce” top appeared “sandwiched” (laminated) to me. That said, it plays well enough and I wouldn’t be bothered playing one or having my students buy one—it is certainly no worse than the entry level Makala or Kala instruments. And it is $45. I prefer the company’s other instrument, the Aklot AKC-23, of which I was basically given one—and then bought two others.

I totally and completely understand people that just want a decent entry level instrument that doesn’t cost much, either due to hesitation if they will keep playing or inability to afford a more expensive ukulele. I teach at a school where nearly 50% of our students qualify for free/reduced lunch, and even the cost of a school t-shirt ($8) is something many students cannot afford! The Aklot, at $65, is something I can recommend as an instrument that will not result in a poor playing experience, at the least (the #1 concern of most people in respect to inexpensive ukuleles). Meanwhile, a tenor Enya laminate was less than $20 with a gig bag yesterday...

That said, Barry’s recent review and then withdrawal of that review of the Aklot freaked me out. So I left the Aklot groups on Facebook and will no longer participate in any Aklot/Kmise review. I will, however, continue to buy some of the AKC-23s as needed.

So, back to the original post...most likely laminate, doesn’t mean it is a bad ukulele—and as Barry has said for years, lots of companies advertise ukuleles as “solid” or just the wood “Mahogany” when the wood is actually laminate. There is no way to force a company to not do that—so it is good to be able to ask a group like this about it before clicking, “buy.”
 
It doesn't look 'solid' to me, but you'd have to sand the edge to get a clean cross section. The question is, "How does she sound?" A $60 uke that sounds good, & plays easy would be a good deal. I actually prefer my laminates to my solid tops all round, but I'm just strumming them. Picking notes the solids are much nicer, but cost 3X to 5X as much.
 
Agree with much of the above. Not sure about the comment about it being ok to list laminate as solid in the UK - never heard that before.

If a wood is advertised as solid wood it needs to be a thin piece of wood sliced out of a single piece of timber. Just very thin. If it is sandwiched in layers, even if those layers all came from the same timber - then it is NOT solid wood. There is no debate on that whatsoever.

I have nothing against laminates and would take a good laminate over a poor solid wood uke every single time. But brands / stores that advertise laminates as solid woods are conning / hoodwinking / misleading / ripping off the buyers. Simple as that. If it's laminate - say so.

This brand are not the only one to do it sadly. Some big names have done it over the years too.
 
So, back to the original post...most likely laminate, doesn’t mean it is a bad ukulele—and as Barry has said for years, lots of companies advertise ukuleles as “solid” or just the wood “Mahogany” when the wood is actually laminate. There is no way to force a company to not do that—so it is good to be able to ask a group like this about it before clicking, “buy.”

Actually, if an instrument is listed on Amazon as 'solid' when it's 'laminate' there IS something you can do to make them change- you can report the produc description for innacuracy.
 
Thanks all for sharing your opinions. I see you all agree with me that it's a laminate. Now that I decided to keep it anyway (it would cost me as much as I paid to return it to China) I might sand an edge, as JackLuis suggested, to double check (just for the heck of it).

I already have some nice sounding solid ukes (not the expensive ones) so, in theory, I don't need more (sure, yeah!) , but I've always like wooden stuff, so when I saw the opportunity of buying ukes of different wood my UAS decided to buy solid ukes of all possible woods, and that's why I bought this supposedly "solid okoume", without trying it. It was just for collection purpose.

The uke itself is not bad. nice "outside" light colored wood with some flaming texture. High action, I'll lower the saddle later. The sound is average with good volume.

I could start a return/refund thing in ebay but the cost of sending it back (~$50 from where I live in the US, calculated lowest price for a 1 pound uke) to China doesn't make it very attractive for a $59.99 uke.

So some lessons for me:
1- The universal one: if it's too good to be true, it is.
2- Don't trust sellers (in ebay? from China? I'd hate to generalize) that claim solid top. With some reputable sellers as exception (I bought a nice solid mango from Mim's Ukes).
3-Don't buy ukes (and other things?) from China if you're not willing to return it and knowing that it'll cost you at least as much as the product itself.

Regards

Eugenio
 
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Glad you seem satisfied Eugenio

Can I add one thing to bear in mind / learn if you will permit me. You say in the OP that your UAS goes crazy when you see inexpensive solid wood.

You see, for me, inexensive solid wood actually rings alarm bells. And that is because its not the holy grail that people think it is (or the myth that it is). And less than reputable / cheap brands capitalise on this. They either con you like this one - sell laminate as solid, or they put bad solid wood on a uke just so they can see 'whoooop - this is SOLID!'

I'd say another lesson to learn is that good laminate beats cheap solid wood on most occastions. Dont buy solid wood for the sake of it.
 
I have bought several Kmise products as I give ukes away as gifts. Some sound better than others, and one of the nicest sounding tenors I had was a mahog laminate. I also had a solid mahog and it was indeed solid [at least the top] but didn't sound as good as the lam. Their banjolele sounds as good or better than some of those in my uke group {Especially with a sock in it] and are only about $80 shipped.
 
I was given an Aklot as well. They wanted only five-star reviews. Mine arrived with various flaws that I pointed out in an honest review on Amazon. I gave it three stars, which was one more than it deserved. Aklot kind of freaked out and offered me another uke--hopefully with no flaws--if I'd take down that review and post a five-star review when the new one arrived. I said I'd just take down the review, no more ukuleles, thanks. I was starting to feel creepy about myself. Everything about the experience was a violation of the terms of Amazon's vendor agreement, and I thought about reporting them, but didn't because I am lazy. And, face it, I wanted a free ukulele. I am corrupt. It certainly made me think differently about Amazon reviews and reviewers.
 
Actually, if an instrument is listed on Amazon as 'solid' when it's 'laminate' there IS something you can do to make them change- you can report the produc description for innacuracy.

I did not know that! I’ll have to dig deeper down to see where to report it.
 
I was given an Aklot as well. They wanted only five-star reviews. Mine arrived with various flaws that I pointed out in an honest review on Amazon. I gave it three stars, which was one more than it deserved. Aklot kind of freaked out and offered me another uke--hopefully with no flaws--if I'd take down that review and post a five-star review when the new one arrived. I said I'd just take down the review, no more ukuleles, thanks. I was starting to feel creepy about myself. Everything about the experience was a violation of the terms of Amazon's vendor agreement, and I thought about reporting them, but didn't because I am lazy. And, face it, I wanted a free ukulele. I am corrupt. It certainly made me think differently about Amazon reviews and reviewers.

Appalling...
 
I admit I have a contrary nature. But, I think this may be a solid top. Upon close inspection of photo #1, I see what looks like grain on the top surface consistently carried through the entire depth of the soundboard. It would be difficult to create this appearance with a laminate. For this reason, I believe the appearance of what looks like layers in photos 2 and 3 (and admittedly is also there in photo #1) is simply an illusion created by the light. Look carefully.
I'm with bazmaz completely. This ukulele may represent what so many corporate built instruments are all about; sales, market share, and nothing else. But I have seen and even owned a couple of very cheap solid top ukuleles from China. I believe this is another.
 
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I'd need to see it in the flesh - but remain in two minds. One of those pics looks VERY laminate to me. Of course it would be easier to check without the edge binding.

I suppose the reason I am skeptical is - these cheap brands generally have history in this department. That may be unfair on this brand, but... if other stop hoodwinking people perhaps we will be more trusting. I personally wouldn't be bothered with one.

But again, to repeat - if people own them and LIKE them - that matters more than most other things. That's what is important to that player. For the buying public though, they deserve to know exactly what they are buying.
 
I do agree BazMaz ..
I find it difficult to believe these Okoume Ukes are laminate, or poor quality in any way,.

Sorry - I think you misread my reply. I find it very easy to believe these are laminate. Unfortunately my experience with Kmise hasn't been on a par with yours. I have had a couple through my hands, one of which I reviewed in detail. Neither were particularly great to be honest.

For me, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was laminate - I just would need to examine it in the flesh to check and come to a view.

Sadly, the brands knocking out laminate ukuleles and selling them as solid wood are rife, particularly on Amazon.
 
Interesting reading everytime I come here, so much so I had to sign up:)

As this is my very first post in an underground of any kind, lol, I'd like to start with a great big "Thank you!" I've garnered much information lurking here recently, and I've even had the privledge of watching a few of your reviews on Utube, great stuff!

Now even though I'm located in western Canada, I actually have a vested interest in these Chinese ukes it seems, Kmise and another brand called Neewer to be exact, and both through Amazon.ca(I live in a small town and buy many things from amazon, tea, books, cloths, nuts, music accessories, ect...). The latter of the company's being the only one of the two I've ever delt with but it was only for some bone nuts/saddles/pegs, they were a bargain that arrived on time and made me quite happy with Neewer due to the improved sustain and tone, compared to the plastic ones that were on my old Cort steel string acoustic. I should probly mention I have limited experience with stringed instruments, I played a violin as a child but only recently picked up a guitar...
My actual reason for being here though came about just this last month while I was practicing on the very guitar I had just finished shaping the before mentioned bone for, it was an absolutely beautiful fall afternoon, the wife walked over and started talking to me as she often does right when I get focussed on anything that isn't her, lol, however this time it was my own fault... I love her more than anything and with what music means to me, I had been asking her for quite some time if she could pick any instrument in the whole world to play, what would it be? well, God bless her she had found her answer that day, a Ukulele... I've since spent more hours then expected on trying to learn all I can about these pure "happy" sounding members of the guitar family, however, we have one music store in town and they only carry a few beaver creek ukes that didn't really look or sound overly impressive to me so I turned to the internet... I now have our first ukulele arriving in 3days, I assume its a concert, even though it was listed as the "Neewer Yhtc-1 Matte Finished 24-inch Sapele Soprano" and it was a Prime item so if it isn't exactly as advertised or if it is damaged, sounds terrible, you name it, it can be returned free of charge, so no gamble there but it did look pretty good and I really do hope its a keeper but the truth is I could get it to the door within a couple days to get the wife started strumming... The Kmise however is coming from China and I won't see it for atleast 2-4weeks, it wasn't a prime item so if there's any issue I'll have to deal with the seller first but it's delayed arrival will give us time to try out the Neewer and from my experience thus far, I will still be protected by Amazon's customer service if there's a problem with either uke... Kmise isn't as easy to find out about as the more expensive brands but from what I can find on the eBay's(.ca/.com/.uk) as well as the different Amazon's from around the world and the kmise.com site, it all seems pretty consistent, if it says solid top then it is and if it says laminate, again, it is... I'm very curious to see for myself though, I've now looked at countless pics, watched an untold number of utube videos and read endless reviews for more Ukulele's then I ever imagined even existed these last few weeks and I have to admit, I'm very excited to see what comes to the door, as well as confident that if I need any help figuring out how to set them up if its needed, then I will find that help here:)

Oh, the Kmise I ordered is the thin body laminated zebra wood tenor, i also ordered a set of low G strings for it(might be my first uke after all, lol, if the wife likes the flower patterned Neewer that is)... I think the most difficult part while I wait for it will be to not order one of the solid wood models Kmise makes while I wait to see how this tenor looks and especially sounds... I have to admit the kmise solid okoume flamed concert as well as a few of the solid spruce topped ones have me looking forward to next payday more then usual, lol... Question, once they arrive, should I be posting some pics or maybe some kind of review somewhere specific about them and my experience with these two brands?


Wow, did i ever run on, lol... I must say, I consider myself very fortunate to be able to join this forum and call upon the collective knowledge of you good people, my sincerest gratitude to all involved from the founder to the members, Thank you all:)
 
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