Why tie notes within a measure?

Sachelis

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
I have two related questions regarding tying notes (or strums) within a measure to increase its duration. I am new to the ukulele and reading music...

For example, the calypso strum (aka island strum) is usually shown with the first up-strum tied to the third beat (see "Calypso-Tied.jpg"). I know what this means (i.e., there isn't a strum on the third beat and the previous up-strum is held), but I don't understand why a tie is used. After all, there isn't a tie on the first down-strum to the (not played) first up-strum. I would expect the calypso strum pattern to be drawn as in "Calypso-Untied.jpg".

I am equally puzzled why two eighth notes that are in the same measure are sometimes tied rather than displayed as a single quarter note (although I don't see this as often). I understand why a tie is used when the notes span two measures.

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • Calypso-Untied.jpg
    Calypso-Untied.jpg
    17.9 KB · Views: 38
  • Calypso-Tied.jpg
    Calypso-Tied.jpg
    18.4 KB · Views: 41
These are good questions to which I don’t know the answer but they have always puzzled me too.

Could it be that ties only extend between two different beats (either within the same measure or across a measure line) and not within the same beat ? So in your example the tie spans an eighth note in the second beat and an eighth note in the third beat, whereas two tied eighth notes in the same beat (the first beat in your example) can be represented as a single quarter note instead.

I don’t know if my logic is correct so would be very interested to hear any other thoughts, but provisionally it appears to make sense to me.

Maybe without ties it would not be possible to represent a quarter note which starts on the off-beat without leaving all sorts of rhythmic ambiguity ? The tie enables the retention of the 4/4 rhythm by acting as a place-holder but allows for added syncopation via a quarter note starting on an off beat ?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Ernie
 
The second example would be the accurate way to write this. The first example does not have enough beats in the measure.

Some may wonder why a tie is used in this example (connecting the and of 2 and beat 3) rather than writing a quarter note. A measure of 4/4 time is written so that visually you can see the measure divided evenly in 2 beat groupings. If it were written as quarter-eighth-quarter it would blur that division.
 
Last edited:
<snip>

Could it be that ties only extend between two different beats (either within the same measure or across a measure line) and not within the same beat ? So in your example the tie spans an eighth note in the second beat and an eighth note in the third beat, whereas two tied eighth notes in the same beat (the first beat in your example) can be represented as a single quarter note instead.

<snip>

Ernie

I buy your hypothesis. A quarter note (which is how long the strum that starts on the 2's "and" lasts) can't start on an eighth note interval.
 
The second example would be the accurate way to write this. The first example does not have enough beats in the measure.

Some may wonder why a tie is used rather than writing a quarter note. A measure of 4/4 time is written so that visually you can see the measure divided evenly in 2 beat groupings. If it were written as quarter-eighth-quarter it would blur that division.

Thanks, EDW. I can buy that a 4/4 measure should be visually divisible in half, although I've never heard that before.

Regarding the first example where you mentioned that there weren't enough beats in the measure, there are four full beats (refer to the "1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +" at the bottom), but I didn't display rests or strum duration (and most strum patterns don't).

And per ErnieElse's comment, it appears the tie is necessary because the quarter note (which would begin at the 2nd beat's "and") can't start at an eighth note. So two eighth notes are tied. Makes sense to me.

Thanks for the insights!
 
Thanks, EDW. I can buy that a 4/4 measure should be visually divisible in half, although I've never heard that before.

Regarding the first example where you mentioned that there weren't enough beats in the measure, there are four full beats (refer to the "1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +" at the bottom), but I didn't display rests or strum duration (and most strum patterns don't).

And per ErnieElse's comment, it appears the tie is necessary because the quarter note (which would begin at the 2nd beat's "and") can't start at an eighth note. So two eighth notes are tied. Makes sense to me.

Thanks for the insights!

As the rest is omitted in the first example, there are only 3 1/2 beats. Notes and rests would have to equal 4. (we musicians are quite literal)

It is possible to have a quarter note that begins on an and, such as in a syncopation.

fgrbrqgn.png

While I said that a measure in 4 is generally visually divided in half, I will add that sometimes you will see that they do deviate from that as when the entire measure is syncopated as in this example.
 
Hi EDW,

I bow to your superior knowledge.

It is a shame that my idea is not correct. I like things to be logical and so it appealed to me as I suspect it did to the OP for the same reason.

So the correct answer is ....

In 4/4 time there is a tendency to respect the division of the measure into a front-two-beat and a back-two-beat and ties between the second and third beat help to annotate syncopation across these beats whilst emphasising this division

This is a clear rule so far so I am happy. But then we have ...

If the first two beats and the second two beats also contain syncopation within their pairs then it is no longer necessary to use ties to emphasise any syncopation within the second and third beat pair.

This is less satisfactory as now I have to understand precisely what constitutes syncopation within a two-beat pair before I can fully understand the use of ties.

Many thanks for any further info. How does this work in 3/4 time ? Is there a preferred pair of beats there as well ?

Ernie
 
Last edited:
The definition of syncopation is changing the emphasis to the weaker part of the beat. In this example above, the notes begin on the upbeat or "and".

There are many customs in the way music is notated, often to make it visually clear. The eighth-quarter-eighth pattern is easily recognized after you are familiar with it. Many players probably see it as a group or pattern as is the case with many common rhythmic patterns.

It can be confusing, because just like in language, there are times that there are rules or customs which are sometimes contradicted. I know that for me, I am used to seeing things a certain recognizable way. Sometimes if things are oddly written, perhaps breaking with common practice, i have to stop and ponder it for a second before it makes sense.

Hope this helps. Feel free to reach out to me with specific questions if you like. You can send a PM or email if you prefer.
 
I saw this post the other day and figured that Ubulele would discuss it—and he did—but his post is missing.

The answer has been given, but I also wanted to express the “why.”

1) As previously mentioned, the first example cannot exist. A 4/4 measure always has to have four full beats. In the case where a pick-up measure is used, the final measure of the song will have the value of the pick-up measure subtracted from it. Or at least this is what is supposed to happen.

2) Most 4/4 patterns not only highlight the subdivision of the measure (dividing in two equal halves), but often the division of each beat—although you do see 4 eighth notes often tied in a row.

3) The “Why” of the subdivision and the tie is for ease of reading. You could use a quarter note in place of the tied note, but the use of the tied note actually makes the measure easier to read—you know where beat 3 occurs (while holding the tied note) rather than the challenge of interpreting the quarter note syncopation mid measure.

Engraving is a very serious matter to those who do it professionally, which is why the new program Dorico is so popular—it takes most of the “standard” conventions for engraving and does it for the composer, whereas other programs do require some knowledge (specifics that are NOT my expertise) to make music look “correct.”

Interested in learning more? Here’s a link...which includes references to BOOKS on the matter.

https://music.indiana.edu/departments/academic/composition/style-guide/
 
Thanks for saying it much more clearly than I did!

People that I have known who do music engraving professionally use various books and sources as you mention to follow all of the standard traditions. It is amazing how much more difficult it can be to read a piece when it is notated incorrectly. I guess we are just creatures of habit.
 
I'll add three more thoughts:

1) Regarding the OP's first jpg, the eighth rest needed to complete the measure would fundamentally change the strum from one where the note (string) rings for the whole beat to one where the string would need to be muted for a half beat.

2) The three grouped (beamed) eighth notes in the OP's first jpg are commonly interpreted as a triplet (though more often in x/8 time signatures), which spans one beat, not one-and-a-half beats. One could argue the first jpg is missing a whole beat, based on the triplet being one beat.

3) Convention tends to group notes within the same beat to help the reader. The tying of the two eighth notes in the second (correct) jpg helps the music reader to keep track of the fact that the whole beat is actually the 2nd half of the 2nd beat and the first half of the 3rd beat.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom