As mentioned by Kenn2018, I too found Mya-Moe’s video to be a great help the first time I restrung a slot head.
Slotted Headstocks?
- Thread starter Rllink
- Start date
Disclaimer: I am not an expert but have seen and read enough to be dangerous :-( I would like some one who truly knows to chime in and either disagree or agree.
From what I understand the break angle helps avoid leakage of the vibration beyond the nut (when you pluck a string, does the string after the nut vibrate). The job of the nut is to send the vibration back down to the saddle... since the tuner rod is lower down the break angle is steeper.
This is also believed to be a marginal gain, most folks won't notice such a difference but I also believe, sum of all marginal gains makes a great ukulele.
That said, it also depends on the overall design of the uke, is the whole body participating, neck, head stock (I believe lighter builds do it) whereas heavier builds tend to isolate the vibration to the strings, saddle and top.. Also, slotted head stocks tend to lighter but I would guess it depends on the wood used for the neck.
In summary.. there might be a legitimate difference in sound for a given uke building technique between a slotted head stock vs regular. Check with the builder if he believes this.. there many luthiers who will upfront state that for them it is purely aesthetical.
OP
OP
Rllink
Well-known member
I am just going to take your word for it.
Doc_J
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I agree. Well put.
Canada Jim
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I feel that the "job of the nut" is the same as the job of the frets - to give the string a definite length. Once the string is fretted, the nut no longer plays a part in the sound produced by the string.
I've often wondered why more builders don't use the zero fret method of building and eliminate the nut altogether, replacing it with a string spacer as builders like Hofner do. This would provide a better tone balance since both fretted and open strings would be vibrating off a metal fret rather than having the open strings vibrating off a bone, ebony, plastic. . . nut.
I only play a concert Flea from The Magic Fluke Company.
These ukes have their own style of open headstock.
The Flea works great for me.
I'm not looking to acquire another uke.
Whatever the headstock might be on a future uke is way less important to me than how it sounds and how it feels to play.
A headstock' "design" makes no sound per se, and therefore is a low, if any priority to me.
These ukes have their own style of open headstock.
The Flea works great for me.
I'm not looking to acquire another uke.
Whatever the headstock might be on a future uke is way less important to me than how it sounds and how it feels to play.
A headstock' "design" makes no sound per se, and therefore is a low, if any priority to me.
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besley
Well-known member
The effect of break angle over the saddle and nut is something that acoustic guitarists have been arguing about since well before there even was an internet. There are those that say an absolute minimum of 15° is required, while others say as little as 6° is enough. So while it may be that there is a benefit from the potential increase in angle with a slotted headstock, it may be too subtle to detect. Heck there are people who say that they can tell the difference between ebony and ivory bridge pins on their guitars (I'm certainly not in this camp). But if you like the look of the slotted headstock, go for it.
I had an Enya with a slotted headstock for a few months, and felt that changing strings was indeed more of a pain. Enough that I would certainly never choose a slotted if I could avoid it.
I had an Enya with a slotted headstock for a few months, and felt that changing strings was indeed more of a pain. Enough that I would certainly never choose a slotted if I could avoid it.
I don't understand this...why would a slotted headstock be more difficult to change strings? I have a uke with a slotted headstock and I have ukes with conventional headstocks. To me, it's actually easier to change strings on a slotted headstock. The tuners all turn in the same direction and the backward-pointing tuner buttons are much more accessible.
I've had classical guitars for years - slotted headstock, tie bridge. I always found it easier to change the strings on my flattop guitars with bridge pins and standard geared tuners than the classical, but that was because of tying the strings, nothing to do with the headstock.
None of my uke have pin bridges, but a couple have string-through bridges. Again, stringing at the headstock is no different to me, standard or planetary tuners. Not a fan of friction tuners, however, regardless of headstock. (Which is why my Fluke has PegHeds.).
(My only slotted headstock ukes are the Fluke and the Ohana Quilted Eucalyptus.)
None of my uke have pin bridges, but a couple have string-through bridges. Again, stringing at the headstock is no different to me, standard or planetary tuners. Not a fan of friction tuners, however, regardless of headstock. (Which is why my Fluke has PegHeds.).
-Kurt]
(My only slotted headstock ukes are the Fluke and the Ohana Quilted Eucalyptus.)
bunnyf
Well-known member
I got myself my first slotted headstock (Pono steel string tenor guitar) and love it, but would not have selected slotted headstock if given the choice. I don’t find it more attractive. It’s not easier for me to tune (use to the other paddle headstock set-up). If the break angle is an improvement in sound, it’s lost on me. I just changed the strings and sound it a bit more of a nuisance. I have my technique down pat on all my other ukes, guitars, and mandolin (all paddle headstocks) and can change strings out pronto. Not a hard job on slotted but not my preference. All in all, give me a pretty paddle headstock.
spookelele
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There's three physics things that a slotted does.
Add weight, which can help sustain. This does seem to be a real thing, but it could also be done with a clip on tuner, or heavier machines.
Increase the break angle. This one... although I can see how it would work, I don't seem to ever feel like it is really doing anything and I can't hear it.
Relieves the sideways torque on the peg. This one... I definitely notice. Slotted tuners being supported on both ends of the post do turn more smoothly. The inexpensive grovers on a kala cedar top, turn smoother than the gotoh on my rebels. If you think about the physics of a tuner, pulling the post sideways is going to make it less smooth than if it was an axle supported on both ends of the post. The flat head post is really only supported on the gear side of the machine. The post kinda rests in a grommet that goes into the head. That grommet thing.. is not precise and does not act like a bearing, and it's just pressed into the wood, so all the tension on the post is really at the gear post, putting the tension on a 1/2" ish lever arm. I think flat head machine tuners also tend to wear faster because that post ends up tilting the gear than in a slotted stock, but that could just be (mis)perception.
Add weight, which can help sustain. This does seem to be a real thing, but it could also be done with a clip on tuner, or heavier machines.
Increase the break angle. This one... although I can see how it would work, I don't seem to ever feel like it is really doing anything and I can't hear it.
Relieves the sideways torque on the peg. This one... I definitely notice. Slotted tuners being supported on both ends of the post do turn more smoothly. The inexpensive grovers on a kala cedar top, turn smoother than the gotoh on my rebels. If you think about the physics of a tuner, pulling the post sideways is going to make it less smooth than if it was an axle supported on both ends of the post. The flat head post is really only supported on the gear side of the machine. The post kinda rests in a grommet that goes into the head. That grommet thing.. is not precise and does not act like a bearing, and it's just pressed into the wood, so all the tension on the post is really at the gear post, putting the tension on a 1/2" ish lever arm. I think flat head machine tuners also tend to wear faster because that post ends up tilting the gear than in a slotted stock, but that could just be (mis)perception.
Thanks for the great explanation, Spook. I'm just not sure if it is generally true that all slotted headstocks add weight??? I know this allegation has become a bit of a commonplace on UU, and while I assume that some designs will do just that, I don't think this can be generalized for all slotted headstocks and to my knowledge, in many cases, the opposite is true.
Ahnko Honu
Well-known member
Currently the only slotted headstocks in my house are my wifeʻs Washburn acoustic guitar and my Magic Fluke which Iʻm not sure counts. I used to own a baritone Northern clone with a slotted head. It was nice sounding, had it tuned low G though but I did not play it much so I sold it. Iʻm more a strummer than a picker so my abilities Iʻm guessing would never bring out the supposed superior sound quality of the slotted head. My 2 cents for a penny!
Many of the points brought up in this thread are being discussed in the Book "Acoustic Guitar" by Teja Gerken, Michael Simmons, Frank Ford and Richard Johnston, Chapter 1: The Headstock:
https://books.google.ch/books?id=rU...q=acoustic guitar chapter 1 headstock&f=false
I don't know how much of an authority this book is, and it's about guitars, not ukulele, but many points will transfer to ukes and other stringed instruments. Some of the statements about are:
p. 4: Slotted headstocks are a bit more difficult to string, especially when in a hurry.
p. 4-5: The break angle of a slotted headstock will produce a slightly brighter sound, which is used by luthiers such as Rick Turner.
p. 9: The mass of the headstock can affect sustain and tone as well as playability (balance of the instrument).
p. 9: Most builders and players feel that a heavier headstock will add sustain, but might take away some treble response and volume.
p. 9: In order to bring out more volume, nylon-string builders try to make the headstock as light as possible, using friction pegs on flamenco guitars and slotted headstocks on classical guitars. This implies that slotted headstocks are conceived as a means to reduce the the weight of the headstock.
p. 10: A steeper break angle creates more downward pressure which helps the strings stay seated in the slots.
p. 10: Some builders and players feel that a steeper angle increases clarity and sustain, but too much angle will wear out the nut prematurely.
https://books.google.ch/books?id=rU...q=acoustic guitar chapter 1 headstock&f=false
I don't know how much of an authority this book is, and it's about guitars, not ukulele, but many points will transfer to ukes and other stringed instruments. Some of the statements about are:
p. 4: Slotted headstocks are a bit more difficult to string, especially when in a hurry.
p. 4-5: The break angle of a slotted headstock will produce a slightly brighter sound, which is used by luthiers such as Rick Turner.
p. 9: The mass of the headstock can affect sustain and tone as well as playability (balance of the instrument).
p. 9: Most builders and players feel that a heavier headstock will add sustain, but might take away some treble response and volume.
p. 9: In order to bring out more volume, nylon-string builders try to make the headstock as light as possible, using friction pegs on flamenco guitars and slotted headstocks on classical guitars. This implies that slotted headstocks are conceived as a means to reduce the the weight of the headstock.
p. 10: A steeper break angle creates more downward pressure which helps the strings stay seated in the slots.
p. 10: Some builders and players feel that a steeper angle increases clarity and sustain, but too much angle will wear out the nut prematurely.
spongeuke
Well-known member
slot solution for the Bass'nBari
Can't resist showing off the double headed and sloted Bass'nBari with violin and cello pegs. This set up was the only one where the pegs didn't get in each others way. Yes it is a two sided instrument Bass on the green side and Baritone on the purple side.
Can't resist showing off the double headed and sloted Bass'nBari with violin and cello pegs. This set up was the only one where the pegs didn't get in each others way. Yes it is a two sided instrument Bass on the green side and Baritone on the purple side.
captain-janeway
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I may put one of those on one of my next builds. I love the look of slotheads!
Post your next creation.
I think that instrument deserves a bigger spotlight than you gave it there... a two sided uke?!?
I must know more.
I like them a lot and have owned several. For me it's purely about aesthetics and haven't yet found a reason why they are better or worse technically / sound wise. I suspect that's one of those subjects that 'might' have some weight, but it will be marginal and yet people spend far more hours than is healthy trying prove one way or the other.
Saying that, I would only really want one on a tenor, or a particularly large concert ukulele as find they look odd if applied to a soprano.
Contrary to some other views, I don't find the string changes harder. If anything I find them easier.
Saying that, I would only really want one on a tenor, or a particularly large concert ukulele as find they look odd if applied to a soprano.
Contrary to some other views, I don't find the string changes harder. If anything I find them easier.
Canada Jim
Well-known member
I'd love to see a photo of the whole instrument Spongeuke.
