Advice requested on problems w/ a new build

Hello all -

I just recently had an unusual experience with a new custom tenor that was supplied to me by someone who I believe is pretty much well-regarded as a builder (no names here...).

1) The spruce top split at the joint for a length of ~4-5 cm, just below the bridge after ~3 weeks in my house. I had this in the case with a humidifier >23 hours each day and the hygrometer in the room shows 45% - 50%, and in the case, it shows 55% - 60%. Additionally, I have other ukes (including another from this same builder that has been in my possession for 18 years with zero problem). I also have fiddles and acoustic guitars that have experienced no cracking, checking, or 'sharp frets'.

I am flummoxed as to how this thing would crack in such a short time and with such careful treatment. I am now trying to re-humidify this thing in preparation of a repair.

2) One other comment: This apparently has a nitro finish. It could be something else, but whatever it is, there is a constant strong emission of VOCs (you could almost pass out playing this thing, and opening the case fills the room with strong odors). Again, I've got a lot of instruments around here, but I have never experienced this.

Q: Is this normal evaporative curing of the finish, and if so, how long is it likely to last, and is this in any way related to the susceptibility of the top for seam separation?

I know there is a lot here, so I really appreciate any thoughts or impressions that you may have. I'm not on a 'witch hunt' (ahem...), but I'm just looking to understand and find the best way to move forward.

Thanks very much.
Mr. Split.

I would think the starting point would be to reach out to the builder—thank you for not identifying them.

If your humidification reporting is accurate (no reason to think it isn’t), then, as you know, that sort of damage should not occur.

Let the builder know and see what they will do.

Not sure what is keeping you from sending it back to be fixed. It's really the only logical course of action. I personally don't like folks putting humidifiers that use water in the cases of the instruments I build and warn them not to do so. I do ask that they use the Boveda 49% two way humidity packs instead. 60% humity is higher than I would like my instuments kept in. Your saying your keeping your uke in a case at 60% and you need to rehumidify. I'm not sure what that is about.

Is it possible you left a black case in the sun for 15 minutes or more. Doesn't take long for that solar collector to heat up and make the glue flexible enough to make a seperation in the finish.

Thanks to both of you guys. I did send a pic immediately to the builder, and - let's just say that I am trying to be diplomatic in my relationship - we've agreed that I would try to hydrate it and then go from there. He is aware, but thus far, although he's expressed some interest, I don't see a lot that makes me think that he feels any responsibility. And this is the reason for my questions: just trying to figure out what to expect...what is the right thing to do.

Michael - no chance of it being in the sun. It never left my living room. Point taken about the RH. The uke is now at 65%-70%+ RH. I will keep it there for 1 week and see what the split does. If nothing, I will talk to the builder and/or try the humidity pack. Actually, you can control the RH pretty well with saturated salt solutions, but that's another science project.....

We'll see what happens next.

Thanks once again all.

No way that a finish that would have been ready to go out the door should still be gassing off to the point it wants to make you gag.

I've had a couple of cases from a very reputable (and expensive) company have very strong VOC odour from their glues etc. gassing off. Penetrating the instrument as well. Took nearly a year for it disappear.

If the top split directly from the glue joint then this really is a warranty issue. To me it doesn't sound like a humidity issue at all. With the handling that you've described the top should not come apart like that. The joint or the glue must have been defective in some way and this was only a matter of time. If this was my instruments I would agree to fix it free of charge.

Allen said:

No way that a finish that would have been ready to go out the door should still be gassing off to the point it wants to make you gag.

I've had a couple of cases from a very reputable (and expensive) company have very strong VOC odour from their glues etc. gassing off. Penetrating the instrument as well. Took nearly a year for it disappear.

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Thank-you, Allen. That's what I was thinking, but it really helps to have some corroboration/additional opinions on this.

Kokkeli91 said:

If the top split directly from the glue joint then this really is a warranty issue. To me it doesn't sound like a humidity issue at all. With the handling that you've described the top should not come apart like that. The joint or the glue must have been defective in some way and this was only a matter of time. If this was my instruments I would agree to fix it free of charge.

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Thanks as well Kokkeli91. Again, this is what I've suspected - to separate after just 2-3 weeks under controlled conditions just doesn't seem right - but I'm not a builder, so it's not easy for me to make that call. This was not an inexpensive uke, so we'll see what works out with the builder. Trying for a win-win if that's possible. It's up to the builder now.

Thanks all once again. Very helpful.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, that's a real shame with a new custom tenor. Instead of being able to get stuck in and play having to deal with issues

I have no advice but please keep us posted and just wanted to say I hope you can get this sorted out.

I would send the uke back to the builder..if the uke has problems he should stand by his/her work....not sure why you are asking questions here as I am sure you paid a lot of money for your custom ukulele...good luck!

I'd say don't drag this out. Your humidity readings of 50ish percent don't indicate a too dry problem unless the uke was built out in the rain! Even if the joint does close, that will not fix the finish. None of us builders like something to happen to a new instrument, but we, as a rule, all stand by our work and do whatever has to be done to correct the issue.

And a crack that does close up after being humidified / rehumidified is still a crack. The wood won’t heal and become one with itself.

Thank-you all. Good advice. I appreciate it.

hawaii 50 said:

....not sure why you are asking questions here...!

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I guess because it's a discussion forum, and I needed some information. That's it. No ulterior motive.

Thanks!

What no one has suggested is that this is a bridge rotation issue. As the bridge tends to rotate forward and down under pressure from the strings, the central fan tends to push up between the bridge and the tail block causing a potential separation of the top plates joint at that location. I've seen this phenomena happen. Of course this isn't an issue with X-bracing so much. And yes, the uke should be returned to the builder who should accept it no questions asked since this does not sound like an abuse issue.

sequoia said:

What no one has suggested is that this is a bridge rotation issue. As the bridge tends to rotate forward and down under pressure from the strings, the central fan tends to push up between the bridge and the tail block causing a potential separation of the top plates joint at that location. I've seen this phenomena happen. Of course this isn't an issue with X-bracing so much. And yes, the uke should be returned to the builder who should accept it no questions asked since this does not sound like an abuse issue.

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Thanks for the input, Sequoia. I hadn't thought about the bracing.
Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say that the builder has not committed to taking it back and has become, IMO, pretty snarky in out text conversations. I'm trying to maintain good working relationship to see what he's willing to do, but no action. I would like to send it back for repair. Not complicated. I am pretty surprised and at this point disillusioned with this guy, and I have to say that I regret havng done business with him. I need to call him and get some kind of resolution - e.g., will he repair it or not. Thanks once again.
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I diislike threads such as this for a number of reasons.
A. This iis a fist time poster to UU.
B. No photographic eviidence of the supposed issue.
C. We are hearing only one side of the story and some posters have immediiately found fault with the side we have not heard from.

DPO said:

I diislike threads such as this for a number of reasons.
A. This iis a fist time poster to UU.
B. No photographic eviidence of the supposed issue.
C. We are hearing only one side of the story and some posters have immediiately found fault with the side we have not heard from.

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Happy to supply you with photo evidence of the supposed issue if you pm me. Name of builder will still be withheld because my intention here is to simply inquire and learn, not to cause a sh!tstorm. Can't help you with your point A. Very sorry.

Woodash said:

Happy to supply you with photo evidence of the supposed issue if you pm me. Name of builder will still be withheld because my intention here is to simply inquire and learn, not to cause a sh!tstorm. Can't help you with your point A. Very sorry.

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I understand everthing you have said. I think my point is, that threads such as this are rarely usefull if we only get to hear one side. I hope you get the outcome you want.

Nitro gases off for years. So that is normal. (The chemical smell is more apparent if you are keeping it in a case)

Are you certain the builder humidifies thier building environment during instrument construction? (I will presume they do)

Sometimes, wood cracks, splits, pull apart, glue fails etc. Who knows- No obvious reasons spring to mind from the things you have said, sorry.

Beau Hannam Ukuleles said:

Nitro gases off for years. So that is normal. (The chemical smell is more apparent if you are keeping it in a case)

Are you certain the builder humidifies thier building environment during instrument construction? (I will presume they do)

Sometimes, wood cracks, splits, pull apart, glue fails etc. Who knows- No obvious reasons spring to mind from the things you have said, sorry.

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Thanks for your comments, Beau. FYI - when I asked the builder (before I took delivery) if he recommended any particular humidifier, he indicated specifically that 'a humidifier was not necessary because his wood was aged and stable and would not need anything'. I was surprised, but chose to humidify anyway...

Woodash said:

Thanks for your comments, Beau. FYI - when I asked the builder (before I took delivery) if he recommended any particular humidifier, he indicated specifically that 'a humidifier was not necessary because his wood was aged and stable and would not need anything'. I was surprised, but chose to humidify anyway...

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Uuummmm......yer, well, that's wrong. Wood is stable until something new enters or leaves it....like humidity.

An instrument should be built in around 45% humidity, and kept in 45% by the owner. (45% simply being a happy median between super dry and raining)

Even aged wood (or an instrument built with aged wood) needs to be humidified at 45% (by luthier and customer of instrument).

The only time humidity isn't an issue is if the instrument is built for you by your next door neighbor and you happen to live in an environment which doesn't have humidity swings throughout the year....
BUT that isn't recommended for if you live and build instruments in say Hawaii, and sell to your neighbor an instrument that was built in the local humidity (about 60-70%) then they sell on that instrument to someone in Arizona that instrument will suffer greatly. If you must do this, (not sure why anyone would) clearly write on the label something like "This instrument was specially build at 70% humidity"