Lower tension: m600’s or Aquila New Nylgut

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Astein2006

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Hi. Does anyone know which soprano strings have the lower tension, Martin M600’s or Aquila Nylgut( or any of their brands). My brother wants to learn the ukulele but he has some arthritis issues and I’m
Looking to string up his uke with some low tension soprano strings.
Thanks!
 
Astein2006 said:
Hi. Does anyone know which soprano strings have the lower tension, Martin M600’s or Aquila Nylgut( or any of their brands). My brother wants to learn the ukulele but he has some arthritis issues and I’m
Looking to string up his uke with some low tension soprano strings.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Fluorocarbon strings have an inherently higher tension than nylon strings, so the nylguts would have a lower tension than ALL fluorocarbon strings.
 
I have M600's at Bb tuning on a tenor. And they aren't high tension at all there. I can't believe they would be an issue for C tuning on a soprano.
 
I would have thought that it's the other way around. Nylguts are much thicker than fluorocarbon and usually tension is directly proportional with thickness so would expect the nylguts to have higher tension. Someone please post an actual tension comparison.
 
I'm sitting here with two different Eddy Finn soprano-scale ukes, in standard tuning, one with M-600's and the other with Aquila New Nylgut "regular soprano" strings. This isn't very scientific, but when I play them side-by-side, my perception is that the M-600's feel slightly more light and "squiggly" to the touch. I really like both sets of strings, however, and I don't at all mind the perception of a somewhat stiffer tension with the Aquilas. But I suppose that if I had arthritis-related challenges, I might tend to lean toward the M-600's. Again, I have no idea how the actual tensions of the two sets compare with each other, and the above are just my impressions upon playing both alternately in the same sitting.
 
merlin666 said:
I would have thought that it's the other way around. Nylguts are much thicker than fluorocarbon and usually tension is directly proportional with thickness so would expect the nylguts to have higher tension. Someone please post an actual tension comparison.
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Nope. That would only be the case if the material were the same. Fluorocarbon itself has a higher tension. The nylon strings are thicker because they need to be due to the inherently low tension of nylon itself. I learned this from a video from the folks at Mya Moe explaining why they strung their instruments with fluorocarbon.
 
Bill Sheehan said:
I'm sitting here with two different Eddy Finn soprano-scale ukes, in standard tuning, one with M-600's and the other with Aquila New Nylgut "regular soprano" strings. This isn't very scientific, but when I play them side-by-side, my perception is that the M-600's feel slightly more light and "squiggly" to the touch. I really like both sets of strings, however, and I don't at all mind the perception of a somewhat stiffer tension with the Aquilas. But I suppose that if I had arthritis-related challenges, I might tend to lean toward the M-600's. Again, I have no idea how the actual tensions of the two sets compare with each other, and the above are just my impressions upon playing both alternately in the same sitting.
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+1 on this. Fluorocarbon definitely feels easier and softer based on my experiences on the following strings. For fluorocarbon, I have tried martin m600, m620, worth clear and brown in both 46 and 63. For nylon, kamaka, d’addarius titanium, d’add black, black ghs, Aquila sugar, Super nylgut, new nylgut etc.
 
AQUATOPAZ said:
Fluorocarbon strings have an inherently higher tension than nylon strings, so the nylguts would have a lower tension than ALL fluorocarbon strings.
Click to expand...

From where does such "inherently higher tension" generalization come from?

Here is information about string vibration you should learn, find the relation between length of a string, tensile force (which also btw governs the deflection force too) and the linear density of a string to the frequency of the string: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration

From what I have read Martin strings maybe thicker than most fluorocarbons though, so in this case you might be even right. But to me Martin m600 strings are quite floppy with GCEA tuning on a soprano scale.
 
Referring to the equation in wikipedia above. For same scale length, if you have a sensitive weighing scale: Just weigh which string or sample of equal length weighs more, nylgyt or fluoro. That one will need a higher tension.
 
AustinHing said:
+1 on this. Fluorocarbon definitely feels easier and softer based on my experiences on the following strings. For fluorocarbon, I have tried martin m600, m620, worth clear and brown in both 46 and 63. For nylon, kamaka, d’addarius titanium, d’add black, black ghs, Aquila sugar, Super nylgut, new nylgut etc.
Click to expand...

That's why I use fluorocarbon. The thinner strings are less painful. I don't have arthritis however.
 
Jarmo_S said:
From where does such "inherently higher tension" generalization come from?

Here is information about string vibration you should learn, find the relation between length of a string, tensile force (which also btw governs the deflection force too) and the linear density of a string to the frequency of the string: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration

From what I have read Martin strings maybe thicker than most fluorocarbons though, so in this case you might be even right. But to me Martin m600 strings are quite floppy with GCEA tuning on a soprano scale.
Click to expand...
There are different formulations of Fluorocarbon strings. Try a different one. On my sopranissimo, if I wanted to tune GCEA, I had to use fluorocarbon as the nylon was way too floppy. I prefer fluorocarbon anyway. As to your above comments, most nylon has a density of approx. 64% that of fluorocarbon. That is where this "inherent" higher tension comes from. It is a result of the molecular bonds of this particular type of plastic and is not a "generalization" but more of what defines fluorocarbon. You do realize that fluorocarbon was developed for the fishing industry because it's density gives it a higher tensile strength than nylon, right?
 
AQUATOPAZ said:
most nylon has a density of approx. 64% that of fluorocarbon. That is where this "inherent" higher tension comes from.
Click to expand...

If as you say the density ratio is 0.64 and I hope you realize the mass is proportional to the square of the string diameter. Then if the d_fluoro < 0.8 * d_nylgut, that fluoro string weighs less (that is has less linear density) than the nylgut string.
To be more exact the diameters should be measured in the tuned state.
 
Jarmo_S said:
From where does such "inherently higher tension" generalization come from?

Here is information about string vibration you should learn, find the relation between length of a string, tensile force (which also btw governs the deflection force too) and the linear density of a string to the frequency of the string: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_vibration
Click to expand...
There is a handy tension calculator where you have control over all relevant variable and you can calculate tension for different instruments and string types:

http://stringtensionpro.com/SelectInstruments
 
merlin666 said:
There is a handy tension calculator where you have control over all relevant variable and you can calculate tension for different instruments and string types:

http://stringtensionpro.com/SelectInstruments
Click to expand...

Really cool. I think it's calculating the tension you must put on the string when tuning and not the inherent tension of the strings themselves. Too bad they don't list the most common string brands and models or, dare I be greedy, all of them. They only had 2 string gauges to pick from across all 4 strings.
 
My experience is the Martin strings are at a higher tension and are thinner than the Aquila. I find the Aquila easier to play.
 
keenonuke said:
My experience is the Martin strings are at a higher tension and are thinner than the Aquila. I find the Aquila easier to play.
Click to expand...

I loved the Aquilas at first, comparing them only to the painful strings on my daughter's abandoned guitar which I couldn't even attempt to fret for more than a few minutes. When I realized that fluorocarbons weren't leaving the wide grooves on my fingertips that the Aquilas did, I ditched the Aquilas. Now I don't get any grooves, though the fluorocarbons used to leave narrow ones. Maybe if I'd stuck with the Aquilas, eventually those grooves would have gone away too. But I am quite averse to practicing while my fingertips hurt. It was also getting hard to fret properly with wide grooves on my fingertips. How did guitars get so popular?
 
AQUATOPAZ said:
Really cool. I think it's calculating the tension you must put on the string when tuning and not the inherent tension of the strings themselves. Too bad they don't list the most common string brands and models or, dare I be greedy, all of them. They only had 2 string gauges to pick from across all 4 strings.
Click to expand...

As Jarmo has mentioned, the term "inherent tension" is odd, as it is used in the social sciences but not in material science. Tension is a force that is applied. If you are interested in a material property there is an elastic modulus and a spring constant that may be of interest to you, but I have never seen them applied to strings. What is relevant to music is nicely described here:

https://www.nde-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Sound/frequencypitch.htm

or for some more:

http://www.professorstring.com/string_FAQs.php
 
AQUATOPAZ said:
Now I don't get any grooves, though the fluorocarbons used to leave narrow ones. Maybe if I'd stuck with the Aquilas, eventually those grooves would have gone away too. But I am quite averse to practicing while my fingertips hurt. It was also getting hard to fret properly with wide grooves on my fingertips. How did guitars get so popular?
Click to expand...

If you practice enough like a few hours each day for a few weeks you grow calluses on your fingertips and when you have those you won't feel a thing or any grooves. I play mainly 12 string guitars and Jumbo guitars with medium to heavy steel string sets ... the tougher the strings are that you play the quicker you develop the calluses. I dislike soft strings because they go out of intonation easy and precise play is much more difficult. Hard strings have many more advantages, you just have to play them a lot to start with to adjust to them, and you will sound better and more in tune.
 
merlin666 said:
As Jarmo has mentioned, the term "inherent tension" is odd, as it is used in the social sciences but not in material science. Tension is a force that is applied. If you are interested in a material property there is an elastic modulus and a spring constant that may be of interest to you, but I have never seen them applied to strings. What is relevant to music is nicely described here:

https://www.nde-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Sound/frequencypitch.htm

or for some more:

http://www.professorstring.com/string_FAQs.php
Click to expand...

Inherent tension is the tension in the string itself, as opposed to the tension you add to the string when tuning. It isn't an odd concept when you consider that molecules are bonding to each other by the atoms being pulled together and repelled apart. The inherent tension, which is a consequence of the density, is the strength of that pulling together of the molecules. This strength of pulling together is what gives fluorocarbon a higher tensile strength. As you use the string, either by fishing or on an instrument, you are pulling the string in opposing directions. The inherent tension of the string is the ability of the string to withstand that pulling in opposing directions, or tensile strength.
 
The figure below is the formula of string tension. f1 is frequency, if we want to get C tone, it is 440Hz.



We can see the things below with this formula
  1. String tension (red) is in proportion to string thickness (green). If we use thick strings, we need high tension in same frequency.
  2. Fluorocarbon are heavier than nylgut, hence fluorocarbon is often seen thinner than nylgut. But we can raise tension with thick fluorocarbon in same frequency.

Tension can be changed by thickness of strings in both fluorocarbon and nylgut. Hence we can not tell which one is higher tension. But higher tension may produce bigger sound and better sound, we tend to take higher tension. Fluorocarbon is heavier than nylgut and little bit easier to get higher tension in similar diameter. Hence fluorocarbon may be bit higher tension than nylgut. But I don't know.
 
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