Question -Is it possible for a Uke to be “overbuilt” resulting in reduced volume?

Jhud

Well-known member
Joined
May 22, 2019
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Location
Rutland UK
My reason for asking this question is due to my recent purchase of a top of the range Pono tenor which I love everything about apart from the fact that to my ears at least it seems noticeably quieter than any of my other Uke’s whether they be Tenor, Concert or Soprano .

It has a beautifully sweet and clear tone , bags of sustain is easy to play and the build quality is in my opinion second to none. To emphasise this I am lucky enough to also own a 2016 Kamaka HF-3D and I reckon the Pono matches it for build quality.

However , the Pono as well as being quiet is also the heaviest of all my Uke’s by a long way. It is literally built like a battleship and it certainly feels like it . One example is the neck and headstock which if ever the word “overbuilt” could be applied then that is how you might describe the Pono.
I realise that the Macassar Ebony is a very hard and dense wood and is used for the back and sides on this model and that this might account for some of the extra weight but it also seems to me that the Western Red Cedar top is slightly thicker than the tops of some of my other Uke’s , might this also affect the perceived volume ?

Obviously when it comes to the weight issue you have to compare like with like ie Tenor v Tenor not Tenor v Soprano but I only own one Soprano Uke , a Mahogany Kepasa which is naturally much lighter than the Pono but is definitely also a lot louder using the same amount of playing effort.

I guess what I am asking is , is there a correlation between weight and volume ? Does “heavier mean quieter “ and likewise “lighter mean louder” ? or is there such a thing as being “overbuilt” when it comes to a stringed musical instrument especially a Ukulele ? and if there is might the heavier build affect the volume of the instrument ?

If there are any views from anyone out there who has some knowledge or experience of these issues I would very much appreciate hearing them.

Thanks
Jon.
 
Hi Jon, this was my exact experience with my Pono tenor as well. I moved it on and figured I just didn't get why people loved them so much. Matt at the uke room has since told me that he finds Ponos need a couple of years playing in to really open up and I mildly regret not giving it time because, as you said, it was a flawless instrument.
 
To answer your initial question, I would say, "Yes". It is possible to build a ukulele too robustly, but I don't think that is likely to be the case with your Pono.

I have encountered some prime examples of "over-built" ukes - usually made by folks who have previously built guitars. I remember two in particular. As examples of woodworking skill, they were impressive items, but they were about as musical as a kitchen chair. Let's just say, they would have been handy weapons in a bar fight.

You say your Pono has a sweet sound and good sustain. That doesn't describe an instrument that is so solidly built as to be unmusical.

I won't speculate on why your Pono seems quiet. Without examining it, hearing it etc. it is not possible to say. It it actually quiet, or does it just seem so to the player? Have you been in front of it while somebody else plays? Some ukes can seem deceptively "soft" sounding to the ears of the player. I guess that's what side ports are all about.

I hope you can resolve this issue.

John Colter.
 
Hi Jon, this was my exact experience with my Pono tenor as well. I moved it on and figured I just didn't get why people loved them so much. Matt at the uke room has since told me that he finds Ponos need a couple of years playing in to really open up and I mildly regret not giving it time because, as you said, it was a flawless instrument.

Thanks for the reply Pirate Jim.
I am kind of gratified to hear you had the same experience with your Pono and it’s not just me ! I got mine from the Uke Room also.
“Playing in “ Uke's , especially solid wood ones makes sense to me . I don’t intend parting with mine just yet as in many respects I really do like it.
Thanks again.
Jon.
 
To answer your initial question, I would say, "Yes". It is possible to build a ukulele too robustly, but I don't think that is likely to be the case with your Pono.

I have encountered some prime examples of "over-built" ukes - usually made by folks who have previously built guitars. I remember two in particular. As examples of woodworking skill, they were impressive items, but they were about as musical as a kitchen chair. Let's just say, they would have been handy weapons in a bar fight.

You say your Pono has a sweet sound and good sustain. That doesn't describe an instrument that is so solidly built as to be unmusical.

I won't speculate on why your Pono seems quiet. Without examining it, hearing it etc. it is not possible to say. It it actually quiet, or does it just seem so to the player? Have you been in front of it while somebody else plays? Some ukes can seem deceptively "soft" sounding to the ears of the player. I guess that's what side ports are all about.

I hope you can resolve this issue.

John Colter.

Hi John,

You make some very valid points here and I’m grateful for your response. I must emphasise that apart from the fact it seems to be on the quiet side I still very much like the Pono for the reasons previously stated.
I will try to give it a listen with someone else playing it at my local Uke club - good suggestion, thanks.
Cheers
Jon.
 
I have limited experience with them but the Pono tenor I owned was far too neck-heavy for me. I chalked this up to the truss rod...which, in my opinion, was a perfect example of “overbuilding”

If that had been the only thing I disliked about it, I might have kept it. But I also disliked the neck profile, the nut width, and the fact that, while it sounded sweet, it was lacking in volume when compared to other tenors I had.
 
My Pono experiences were similar, tenors MT and deluxe mango MGTD. Admittedly a small sample of only 2. Although both had great looks, tone & feel, both seemed to have less volume than I like/expected, although I never weighed them. Unfortunately, I'm not patient enough to wait out a long break in period, and not sure if that would have even helped.
 
Last edited:
My Pono experiences were similar, tenors MT and deluxe mango MGTD. Admittedly a small sample of only 2 tenors, but both seemed to have less volume than I like/expected, although I never weighed them.....
I did, though I’ve since lost the notes I took.:rolleyes:

I do recall that my Pono ATD weighed so much more than my Cordoba 24T that the difference in weights exceeded the total weight of the Cordoba. Granted, the Cordoba is very light, especially for a laminate..but you know how nice a tenor it is.
 
While I have read various arguments one way or another, in my experiences some of the loudest, liveliest instruments I have played were also the lightest. I tend to believe that while an instrument that may be slightly dead may improve some over time, I can't imagine it becoming that much better. I would lean toward an instrument that sounds great right from the start rather than hope that it will become good somewhere down the line.
 
I don't have an answer, but Pono is a very reputable builder and I can't imagine that they would sell a ukulele that is inferior to the accepted norms. I do know that I have a couple of mid range ukuleles, one is mahogany and the other is cedar top with myrtle sides and back. Both solid wood. Both comparable in price. The cedar one is much lighter and the top is thinner than the mahogany, and the cedar one is noticeably louder.

I've busked with both of them and my wife has told me that when she comes out to check on me that when I play the cedar one she can hear it a block away. The mahogany she can't hear from across the street. But that is just comparing two ukuleles, so I don't know if there is a correlation. But I've just always assumed that the mahogany one is normal and not the cedar one. My thought is that the cedar is not just louder, but the sound from the cedar one carries farther as well. I don't know if that makes sense, or if that is how sound waves work, but it is something I've thought.
 
I don't think I'd hold onto an instrument for two years hoping I'd like how it sounds at the end of that time. If you don't like it now and can still send it back, I would do that. If it's not as loud as your soprano now, it's unlikely to grow a tiny internal amplifier in two years.
 
About 5 years ago I had Bruce Wei build me a Selmer/Maccaferri Grande Bouche Gypsy Jazz uke to my specs, solid curly maple top, solid rosewood body. It turned out to be heavy and quiet with limited sustain, though also with great tone. I changed the strings from Nylgut to fluorocarbons, but it didn't help. I mentioned it to Pepé Romero at an event he attended, who said curly maple is too stiff for solid tops. But, after about 2 years of playing it off and on and keeping it in a humidified display case, it opened up, the volume and sustain are much better now.

Gypsy semi side.jpg



This is Michael Kohan in Los Angeles, Beverly West near the Beverly Center
9 tenor cutaway ukes, 5 acoustic bass ukes, 11 solid body bass ukes, 9 mini electric bass guitars (Total: 34)

• Donate to The Ukulele Kids Club, they provide ukuleles to children in hospital music therapy programs. www.theukc.org
• Member The CC Strummers: YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/CCStrummers/video, Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheCCStrummers
 
Yes, ukes can be overbuilt. But usually, this would result in a twangy sound with little to no sustain, and this isn't the case with your Pono. Nor is it with most of the Ponos I have played. Out of a full dozen, only two have had a somewhat softer voice. I tend to think this is normal with such a large sample of instruments. My own Pono ETSHC is among my all-time favorites: Extremely well built, but also loud, and very musical.

As you have mentioned, Ebony is among the heaviest or densest woods, and an instrument built to 3/4 of this wood will naturally be heavier than one with Koa or Mahogany. But since the back and sides function as a reflector, density (and the weight that comes along with it) shouldn't be inhibiting the sound.

I have measured out every single one of my ukes and cannot find any relation between volume and light weight. My Pono ETSHC is indeed the heaviest tenor of the bunch with about 840 grams (1.85 pounds). It is closely followed in weight by my wife's Maple/Spruce tenor from Beau Hannam: this one weighs 805 grams (1.77 pounds), but is by far the loudest and most musical tenor I have ever heard. My wife's Blackwood/Cedar LFdM tenor is very loud as well and has a weight of 675 grams (1.49 pounds). My lightest tenor is a Koa Kanilea of 560 grams (1.23 pounds), and it has the softest voice of them all. My all Acacia Pono AT is 630 grams (1.29 pounds), only 70 grams heavier than the Kanilea, which is the exact weight of the truss rod. My Sapele KoAloha Opio has the same weight as my Pono AT: 630 grams (1.29 pounds). My all Koa Moore Bettah has a similar weight at 653 grams (1.44 grams). Out of this sample, the heavier ones are definitely not lacking volume. My own subjective ranking in terms of volume would be 1. Beau Hannam, 2. LFdM, 3. Pono ETSHC, 4. KoAloha Opio, 5. Moore Bettah, 6. Pono AT, 7. Kanilea.

I'm just trying to add a bit of perspective to the discussion of weight vs. volume. While the weight can be measured objectively, our preferences in terms of sound are highly subjective. If there is something you don't like about the volume and/or tone of you new uke, I see no point in waiting and hoping that it will change to your liking.

I'll add that I've never liked the stock strings that the Ponos come with. I've always changed them to some Fluorocarbon strings and thought the ukes came to life with them.
 
Really useful info in your post Rakelele, thank you! If you could afford the time I'd be really interested for you to download a sound meter app onto your phone and measure the difference in volume. I did this before to see if a uke I found to be quiet really was (it was) but my biggest surprise was that my loudest uke was a fairly cheap laminate soprano. Serious bark to it!
 
I have a Pono MT-E dating back 5 or 6 years and I recall it was rather soft and soulless when new. After a few years it opened up and sounds great now: sweet fat harp-like tone with ample volume. Perfect for thumb flesh strums over the fingerboard. Not as loud as my Kremona Coco but plenty of volume to do a good job in an acoustic ensemble of ukulele and guitar. It's not really a heavy instrument and seems rather average in weight for a solid mahogany uku.

In my years of teaching I have encountered many locally homemade uku with beautiful woodworking, solid koa build but with tiny metallic voices. All of them had really thick tops and reminded me more of a solid body electric guitar than an uku. One thing I noticed about these heavy instruments is they tend to have long sustain through pickups while sounding terrible acoustically.
 
I’ll chime in that there does seem to be something about light being equal to loud. I arguably have the loudest uke in my club in my KoAloha pineapple. It’s really light.
 
My Pono Mango Pineapple is by far the heaviest but possibly the sweetest sounding instrument I have. If I want some quiet strumming time it's the one I reach for, if I want to rock out a bit I'll choose something else. It's also the cheapest uke I've ever bought but I would never part with it.
 
I've been dreaming of a Pono for a while now - probably because they're mysterious and expensive (from my perspective). I've never touched one, but I'd love to one day.

That said, I've heard it can take time for a uke to open up and really sing. I wonder how many good instruments aren't bought for this reason (they sound muted when young). Hmmm....
 
I will chime in, had a number of Pono’s and I think they are on the heavy and quiet side. Had a Oregon build Breedlove tenor, and it was heavy and guiet. Had a few oscar scmidths in my early uke years and they were heavy and quiet.

Now I have a martin Iz tenor, light as a feather, and a powerful projecting voice. I have a koaloha, very light and very loud. I have a lopronzi cherry, light and loud.,

So I think instrument build weight makes a difference.

Recently was corresponding with Someone at the Ukulele Site On a cedar uke comparison, the PONO cedar/acacia and thier exclusive kala cedar-ziricote. He really like the Kala and said it was a lighter build than the Pono. He was not pushing either one.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom