Celluloid Binding Revisited -- MEK the missing link?

Brett S.

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So, building a copy of a Martin uke which calls for tortoise celluloid binding.

Picked up some Duco from the hardware store only to find (online, before using) that the Duco formula changed, and is not really the recommended method anymore.

More online searching and reading, reading here and elsewhere...other cement recommendations...and make your own cement with Acetone. Or just use Acetone.

Made "mud" with scraps and Acetone. Results=so-so after 24 hours. Binding peeled off fairly easily.

Searching deeper and found a clue (i think) that MEK is needed. Bought MEK and used it straight up (from a syringe) onto a piece of binding and applied to test piece.

After 24 hours, binding was pulled off, but came off in several pieces, and with wood attached. I don't know why Acetone didn't give the same results, as many people seem to swear by it, but MEK seemed to give me a much better result.

I suspect MEK is the ingredient that once was in Duco, but no longer is.
 
I just use CA glue to attach binding. Seems to work fine for celluloid
 
I just use CA glue to attach binding. Seems to work fine for celluloid

Yup. As Ksquine says... The stuff you are trying to use is to glue celluloid to celluloid, not celluloid to wood. CA glue will glue on the stuff stronger than the hammers of hell.
 
Yup. As Ksquine says... The stuff you are trying to use is to glue celluloid to celluloid, not celluloid to wood. CA glue will glue on the stuff stronger than the hammers of hell.

At this point I'm trying to avoid CA. I recall several years ago applying celluloid binding (only once) with the old Duco or something like it, and it seemed to work really well, directly to bare wood. But the newer formula isn't the same as attested by several folks.

I'm going to do more testing, but my test piece with just MEK was to me a success. Binding tore/broke into pieces and had slivers of wood attached. Everything else I tried peeled right off in one piece. I've heard several people say "just Acetone" either dribbling it in or dipping binding into it, but the results I got were not acceptable. The MEK behaved differently and gave much better results.
 
If you change you mind about the CA glue, taping it all down first with green stretchy tape and wicking in with the thin viscosity stuff was a straightforward process (from my novice standpoint).
 
Again, ditto on the CA for celluloid and wood both
 
At this point I'm trying to avoid CA.

If you don't want to work with CA you might want to try this stuff: StewMac's guitar binding glue. I've never used it so can't vouch for its effectiveness and don't know what it is made of, but it might be an alternative.

StewMac_Bind_ALL_Guitar_Binding_Glue.jpg
 
Okay, folks, I'll probably be using CA after all. Y'all were right. I pulled a piece off that I did a couple days ago. Came off too easy and cleanly. I then re-applied that same piece with CA. Pressed it down onto my bench until I thought the bond had started to set and then set piece off to the side to do other things. Picked it up a few hours later and pulled the binding off again. Large pieces of mahogany splintered off with it. Clearly superior to what I was doing.

So, now my question is what tips to install celluloid with CA? Anything particular about the celluloid to know? Wiping the binding and/or wood first with acetone or MEK or any other preps or tricks in general?
 
After you route your binding channels you may wish to seal them with shellac before using the CA to glue in the bindings. I have heard that some people have had issues with the CA staining the wood, although I have never had this problem myself.
Brad

Yes, that is one thing I wanted to avoid. How about sealing the whole body with Shellac prior to routing and gluing? Will that prevent the wicking/staining?
 
I sue the brand 'Weld -On'. Yesterday I bought some PVC plumbers cement to see if that works. If it does it will be a heck of a lost cheaper than weld-on! CA glue is good but not for applying binding to raw end-grain spruce - the capilliary action as it wicks up the cells cannot be reversed or corrected.
 
This YouTube video is what I followed. It didn’t use the pipettes in the demo but wish I had because it's pretty challenging to control the amount otherwise. You want to try to keep it between the tape; if it goes under it collects and hardens into really thick ridges, which are a pain in the butt to get off.

https://youtu.be/r-6EEuJKIzQ
 
The biggest takeaway from this video is not the glue, it's the other pair of hands used by Robbie. I've found an assistant most useful for stufff like this.
 
I sue the brand 'Weld -On'. Yesterday I bought some PVC plumbers cement to see if that works. If it does it will be a heck of a lost cheaper than weld-on! CA glue is good but not for applying binding to raw end-grain spruce - the capilliary action as it wicks up the cells cannot be reversed or corrected.

I tried that in one of my experiments and got poor results. Which Weld-On do you use?
 
After you route your binding channels you may wish to seal them with shellac before using the CA to glue in the bindings. I have heard that some people have had issues with the CA staining the wood, although I have never had this problem myself.
Brad

Does the CA adhere well to the shellac, or as well as to bare wood?
 
Does the CA adhere well to the shellac, or as well as to bare wood?

Yes it adheres just as well as to bare wood... Like Pete and others have said, if the thin CA wicks into your wood it will create very ugly streaks. Redwood I found out seems to be the worst offender in this regard and I once ruined a lovely sinker redwood top due to CA wicking. Its always worst at the north and south ends where the grain ends are exposed. All it takes is a quick brush with dilute shellac (1 lb cut) and you are good to go. I also spray shellac (Bullseye unwaxed) around the edge of the top and on the sides so that any drips will sand out easier.
 
I use the thickest CA I can find, then squeeze it on and distribute it with a big splinter of wood. Four or five inches at a time with binding and two pieces of purfling goes pretty quickly. There is no wicking and not a lot of squeeze out, but I tape my fingertips to keep them as clean as possible (and not always successfully).
 
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