Torrefied spruce top

Joyful Uke

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I don't recall seeing ukuleles with a torrefied spruce top for sale in the past, but have seen them lately.

I've read the sellers take on why it's a benefit, but what real world experiences have people here had with it?

Is it just to stir up our UAS, or is it something that's worth seeking out?
 
Yeah I'd also like to know. :)
 
Here's my two bobs worth. "Torrefied" is just a marketing term for kiln dried wood which has been standard practice in the industry for a long, long time. Its been a LOONG time since mass manufacturers have had the time to let all the wood dry out naturally and this is something that only skilled and small scale luthiers have the time for.

I did a factory visit to Cole Clark Guitars a few years ago and all the wood was being dried in a kiln.
They just hadn't cottoned on yet to the marketing phrase, "Torrified".

Its just marketing.
 
Here's my two bobs worth. "Torrefied" is just a marketing term for kiln dried wood which has been standard practice in the industry for a long, long time. Its been a LOONG time since mass manufacturers have had the time to let all the wood dry out naturally and this is something that only skilled and small scale luthiers have the time for.

I did a factory visit to Cole Clark Guitars a few years ago and all the wood was being dried in a kiln.
They just hadn't cottoned on yet to the marketing phrase, "Torrified".

Its just marketing.

Those are different things though. Conventional kiln is gonna be like 100-150 degrees F. Torrefaction kiln is gonna be 400+ F. You can argue about tones but it definitely looks different after the process, like it aged 40 years.
 
Here's my two bobs worth. "Torrefied" is just a marketing term for kiln dried wood which has been standard practice in the industry for a long, long time. Its been a LOONG time since mass manufacturers have had the time to let all the wood dry out naturally and this is something that only skilled and small scale luthiers have the time for.

I did a factory visit to Cole Clark Guitars a few years ago and all the wood was being dried in a kiln.
They just hadn't cottoned on yet to the marketing phrase, "Torrified".

Its just marketing.

I didnt realize you were a luthier and had built instruments with both tops and were therefore qualified to call it just marketing. Those luthiers that I have talked to that have built with it agree that torrification does change the tonal properties of spruce. That is not to say it makes it better, because tone is personal, it makes it different.

Kiln dried is a completely different process. You are comparing apples to oranges.
 
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Meh, just because pasteurisation is considered good it doesn't mean that ultra-pasteurisation is better.

What this does mean I guess is that if you don't absolutely love the sound when you play it, then its silly to believe that it may get better with age. Its as good as its ever going to be.
 
My question is does anyone know have ukuleles of both torrified spruce and regular spruce? (And yes we know there are different varieties of spruce that may sound different.) What do you think of your torrified ukuleles? I don't as yet own a spuce ukulele vs. the untorriefed one. I would be interested in your response. Thanks
 
My question is does anyone know have ukuleles of both torrified spruce and regular spruce? (And yes we know there are different varieties of spruce that may sound different.) What do you think of your torrified ukuleles? I don't as yet own a spuce ukulele vs. the untorriefed one. I would be interested in your response. Thanks

In the guitar world there are many people who are willing to pay more for a roasted top and then say it sounds better than a regular top. I am not sure if that is more a matter of psychology or of the changed molecules of the roasted top. I have several guitars with regular sitka and red spruce tops and they are just fine the way they are. For an ukulele, rather than thinking about spruce and torrification I'd rather spend more money to get Hawaiian uke made of koa.
 
My question is does anyone know have ukuleles of both torrified spruce and regular spruce? (And yes we know there are different varieties of spruce that may sound different.) What do you think of your torrified ukuleles? I don't as yet own a spuce ukulele vs. the untorriefed one. I would be interested in your response. Thanks

I would guess they'd need to be the same brand to be a better comparison, since the builder has a lot to do with it, too. A Kamaka doesn't sound the same as a KoAloha or a Kanile'a, for example, even if they're all koa.

IA that whatever ukulele we buy should sound good to us on the day that we buy it, rather than hope that it gets better as it ages, but if something like a torrefied top can make it sound even better, that would be great. I haven't found any good sound samples yet to do a good comparison, but haven't looked too hard.

What got me wondering about this is drooling over the I'iwi with a torrefied spruce top on HMS. Sounds lovely.
 
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I haven't found any good sound samples yet to do a good comparison, but haven't looked too hard.

In recent months, 2 Josh Rieck ukes have appeared in the Marketplace: a 16"-scale-length concert with a torrefied sitka spruce top and a smallish-bodied tenor with a carpathian spruce top. The recordings are far from equivalent, but it may be educational to compare:
https://soundcloud.com/ukulele-eddie/j-rieck-first-sample-oasis (concert with torrefied sitka spruce top, strung with oasis brights)
https://app.box.com/s/05vvpbv4eo99zcoi8y33y8uv40w75ixw (tenor with carpathian spruce top, strung with oasis warms)
 
Speaking of getting better with age, I wonder how much more change in sound you'd get from a torrefied top over the years...

But I agree - definitely get a uke that sounds good the day you buy it. If it sounds even better in 30, 50 years, then that's a lovely bonus.
 
Kevin here from KinnardUkes-

Torrification is the process of baking wood at high temperatures in an oxygen free kiln (can't catch on fire if there is no oxygen). The temperature and time in the oven can vary by processor or company. The process is to bake out any moisture, oils and biomass down to the cellular level leaving only the cellular structure of the wood. This expedites what wood naturally does over time when it dries out. This is why it is said to emulate a top that is 40 to 50 years old.

Torrified Sitka tends to be more brittle than a new Sitka top which is more flexible due to having moisture/oils/etc. In our experience, the stiffer, more brittle Torrified Sitka transfers vibration from the strings to the soundboard much faster. This results in a very responsive soundboard. I describe it as "power steering". You barely have to hit the strings and the sound just blooms- in our experience it also tends to sustain more, which makes sense.

Does the torrified sound better than the non torrified? Not really- because better is so subjective. Can you feel the difference in the response, resonance and sustain of the instrument when playing? In our experience in building many ukes with torrified Sitka, absolutely.

Cheers

Kevin
KinnardUkes.com
 
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This is an interesting thread. So what happens to those of us with non-torrified wood tops? Can we expect that as moisture, oils and biomass leave the wood with age, the uke will become more responsive, resonant, and have better sustain? Do we anticipate problems? more prone to cracks and humidity related issues, etc. as a result of being less flexible and more brittle? This is only heightening my anxiety.
 
This is an interesting thread. So what happens to those of us with non-torrified wood tops? Can we expect that as moisture, oils and biomass leave the wood with age, the uke will become more responsive, resonant, and have better sustain? Do we anticipate problems? more prone to cracks and humidity related issues, etc. as a result of being less flexible and more brittle? This is only heightening my anxiety.

Short answer- yep- let us know in 40 years.

Would it be more prone to cracking in use? Not in our experience, the wood is pretty much stabilized. Play it and treat it the same as you would any fine wood instrument. No need to have any more anxiety with a torrified Stika vs a regular Sitka top on a nice uke....keep it humidified as you would any other wood instrument.
 
Kevin here from KinnardUkes-

Torrification is the process of baking wood at high temperatures in an oxygen free kiln (can't catch on fire if there is no oxygen). The temperature and time in the oven can vary by processor or company. The process is to bake out any moisture, oils and biomass down to the cellular level leaving only the cellular structure of the wood. This expedites what wood naturally does over time when it dries out. This is why it is said to emulate a top that is 40 to 50 years old.

Torrified Sitka tends to be more brittle than a new Sitka top which is more flexible due to having moisture/oils/etc. In our experience, the stiffer, more brittle Torrified Sitka transfers vibration from the strings to the soundboard much faster. This results in a very responsive soundboard. I describe it as "power steering". You barely have to hit the strings and the sound just blooms- in our experience it also tends to sustain more, which makes sense.

Does the torrified sound better than the non torrified? Not really- because better is so subjective. Can you feel the difference in the response, resonance and sustain of the instrument when playing? In our experience in building many ukes with torrified Sitka, absolutely.

Cheers

Kevin
KinnardUkes.com
Is torrified Mahogany or Koa a thing?
 
My personal experience is that when the average moisture drops my instruments start to sound harsh and brittle. Humidifying them improves the sound so I have no idea why I would want to start with a fully dried out instrument.
I'd have to try one in person and I wouldn't buy one sight unseen.
 
Is torrified Mahogany or Koa a thing?
The only torrified woods I have seen used in luthiery have been Spruce and Maple. I imagine you can have any tone wood torrified.

Typically when you hear of an instrument using torrified woods they are referring to the top or soundboard. However, there have been some guitar builders that have built entire instruments with torrified woods- top/sides/back and neck.

Cheers
 
While I do not have a ukulele with a torrified top, I do play a Bourgeois guitar with a torrified adirondack spruce top. The tonal response of that instrument is on par with, and in some cases better than vintage instruments I have played but could not afford! It has a dry woody sound like a good pre-war Martin, rings like a bell, and has wonderful resonance and sustain.

A guitar is a larger soundboard than a ukulele, so the effect may not be as profound. I would like to play a ukulele with a torrified top to see!

I would suggest reading the article linked, and then go try out some instruments, and see what you think.
 
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