All wood banjolele projects

Log Dog

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Hi all, I'm a hobby luthier and have built quite a few instruments such as dulcimers, mandolins, and lap steels. I'm currently into a console grand non-pedal steel guitar project cut from one huge slab of 50 year old black walnut with 2 necks with 6 strings each.

I have recently come into some nice wood and a couple of old beech hand drums one is 8" and the other is 10" both are 2.5" thick. I have begun building a soprano and a concert neck both made of Honduran mahogany. ) have also made the fretboards soprano = maple & concert = black walnut. both have medium round frets.

I have tone wood of padauk, western red cedar, Honduran and African mahogany, and zebra wood. this tone wood is in book matched pairs that are large enough to cover the larger rim with a little to spare. 1960's Fender style Wilkinson tuners. I also have a bone nut and saddle and rosewood bridge cut for each.

Now for my question...…

Do any of ya'll have recommendations as to the combinations of tone woods for the best sound as well as aesthetic quality given what you have read above? As for the tone wood, I have enough to make one top and one bottom for each species of wood listed. I'm thinking western red cedar for both tops and something else for the backs....

I would appreciate any ideas with justification ya'll may have.

Have a fine day and a better tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

Log Dog
 
Oh yeah and could someone give me a good example of bracing for instruments of this shape and size. I have bass wood kerfs ready for the inner supports but nothing yet for the bracing.
 
Hi Log Dog, and welcome to Ukulele Underground. Just for clarification - you use the word Banjolele. This means a four string banjo, usually of soprano or concert scale, reentrant tuned. You seem to be describing a wooden instrument, more like a traditional Hawaian ukulele, figure of eight shaped. Is this what you plan to make, and what scale length are you considering?

John Colter.
 
John,

I am sorry that I was confusing in my earlier post:

I called them banjoleles because they will be in banjo shape. The hoops (bodies) will be made of the two hand drums one that is 8" around that will be in soprano scale and the other is 10" around and will be built to concert scale. Since they were just leftover beech wood hoops from some old Remo brand hand drums, I decided to incorporate them into a project. I built a fretless practice banjo the same way.

20141227_105710.jpg.

So like I said they will be like banjoleles but they will have wood tops and bottoms rather than drum heads. The banjo in the picture sounds very good considering it's basically a stick and a piece of a cardboard concrete footing tube with a plywood top. The banjoleles will sound much better because they will be made much better and with quality parts and wood.
 
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Hi Log Dog,

Your last post simplified things a fair bit, allowing me to unscramble my thoughts enough to offer a few suggestions:

If you intend to put a conventional wooden bridge on a round instrument with wooden top and back, it will, to my way of thinking, be a camp-style ukulele which will require some form of sound board bracing. There is copious information available for this design.

If you want the quack or ratchet sound of a banjo-uke, you could omit the back and use a traditional dowel. This will require a floating bridge and tail piece. With a WRC or Mahogany top, a floating bridge will allow the necessary bridge height adjustment (adding material to the feet) to maintain optimal intonation as the top sinks with age. This also eradicates the rotation issues of a glued on bridge.

Seeing that you have two rings of different sizes, you could entertain the thought of making a “wedding cake” (two tiered) design of the old wooden jazz banjos, circa 1920. The only unknown with this is the ability of nylon/fluorocarbon strings to create enough energy to drive the top with sufficient volume.
The wood topped jazz banjos were typically steel strung and designed to be mellow (guitar-like) to fit in with the popular jazz style of the day.

Google the subject to get further ideas. Banjo makers have been experimenting with wood tops, apparently with good results, for a long time.
 
Yes you seem to get my idea. I will be putting a traditional ukulele bridge on both instruments. I don't want to do a wedding cake style, nothing that elaborate. Just something that sounds and looks good and is light weight and easily playable. I wont be going backless, as there is a 1 1/2" hole in the side of both rims that will suffice as sound holes and should make them plenty loud. I will put a backbone inside as well as a removable back (removable for maintenance or upgrades). I am considering bracing ala Spanish guitar, and the bridge will be supported underneath by a raised ridge on the backbone to keep the bridge from sinking. I'm thinking WRC top for it's spruce like tone and sustain. It only has a hint of pink so it will match the beech wood sides pretty well. And although not my first choice for tone I am considering the zebra wood because the light color stripes should also blend well with the beech and the dark stripes should make it *POP*. Although the mahogany would match the neck and headstock and has a better tone than zebra wood.

Thank you for your input.
 
Ah! I can now see what you are proposing, LogDog. I've never built a round bodied, or so-called camp uke, but the ever helpful ProfChris has. Perhaps he will chip in.
 
….I will put a backbone inside as well as a removable back (removable for maintenance or upgrades). I am considering bracing ala Spanish guitar, and the bridge will be supported underneath by a raised ridge on the backbone to keep the bridge from sinking.

I can't mentally visualise this, but be aware that anything that contacts the top or its ancillary structural parts and is not allowed to float in sympathy with it, will potentially kill volume and diminish tone.
The cedar or mahogany would be my choices for top wood …. I would keep the zebra wood for non-critical aspects.
Please consider posting progress pics, as it sounds like it will be an interesting build.
 
You learn something new every day. Now that I know it has a name (camp uke) I know where to look for info. I did a quick search and here is an example of what I have been talking about. Or at least something close to it. The only thing that makes this moment bitter / sweet is I thought I invented something new LOL!!!! Now I know Gretsch had made these as far back as the 1920s LOL!!!!

camp2.jpg

Thanks folks Ya'll are great. I'm glad I found you.

Log Dog AKA Stephen

Stephen.jpg
 
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Bazuku,

Of course you are right about stabilizing the bridge with the backbone. I should have caught that error in my plan myself. But since the area is small and it will be a nylon ish string set I think bracing the top as one would on an acoustic classic guitar and adding internal kerfing around the top and bottom there should be enough support for a classic uke bridge to salvage ample sound. What cha think?
 
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The fact that you are foregoing a top sound hole gives you a greater choice of bracing styles.
I would encourage you to research similar builds to get an idea of other builders' experiences, as I have none to share with this style. Two or three, near to full length, light fan braces with an appropriately sized bridge plate could be considered. The length of the bridge plate depends on the width of the top at the level of the bridge. This length can be estimated by taking a sheet of A3 paper, tracing out your body and neck/fret board profiles, then plotting the scale length to reveal where the bridge will lie. I would not omit a bridge plate if you go with the WRC, in particular, as it is typically fairly limp across the grain. On the paper, you will also be able to plot the necessary spread and angle of the fan braces.
The best advice that I can offer you is to research until you feel confident that you know what will have a better than fair chance of working, particularly with regard to top plate thickness and brace pattern and sizing.
 
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I understand and I dry fit everything many times over looking for issues that could come up later in the process. I have used redwood and spruce on many guitar tops and this cedar has a similar look and feel. And I know how the wood like this can flex and split if not supported correctly by bracing. One benefit is that the wood is 3/16" thick and I usually go with 1/8" so it will be quite a bit firmer than what I usually use on classic guitar tops. That and a 10 or 8 inch circle that is supported well on all the edges will make for a fairly firm top all the way around except for the very middle and as you mentioned no sound hole allows more options such as 3 long trusses from bottom to top and maybe an X pattern radiating from the plate centered under the bridge. I'm thinking that might be a little overkill though.

But then again after looking at the picture I posted several posts back.... I may just go with mahogany all the way around... That sure is a pretty camp uke.....
 
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Lyon and Healy beat Gretch to the camp uke by a decade or more!

My camp ukes had 8 inch bodies and just two ladder braces, each about 1/3 in from neck and tail. I'll see if I can post pics once I'm on my laptop. Guitar style bracing would be far too heavy! And I'd use spruce rather than basswood for the braces, basswood isn't stiff enough.
 
Here are three of the four camp ukes I've made.

Sapele, modelled on the early 1920s Lyon & Healy. Note the heavily curved back, which allowed me to build it very lightly so it's good and loud. The wood is less than 1.8mm thick on top, sides and back.

Sapele camp uke (front).jpg

Sapele camp uke (back).jpg

Oak, made from a piece of the bartop which I obtained when my village pub closed. Phil Doleman owns this one.

Oak camp uke.jpg

Spruce top (with 1/16 inch plywood sides). The top on this one is at most 2mm thick. And I gave it a celluloid fretboard to tone with the pink (!) body.

Spruce top camp uke.jpg

And I misremembered - all these have a single brace only, running across the middle of the body, and no bridge patch at all! That's because I chose to copy the Lyon & Healey smile bridge, which has large footprint, so I reckoned I didn't need one. All these are holding up well, no signs of the top collapsing.

Camp uke single brace.jpg

I reckon that 3/16 inch is far too thick, and even 1/8 (3mm) is too much. For an 8 inch body using cedar I'd thickness the top to maybe 2.2 or 2.1mm. Maybe 2.4 for the 10 inch top. So I'd guess that's around 3/32 in imperial measurements, about half what you plan!
 
Lyon and Healy beat Gretch to the camp uke by a decade or more!

My camp ukes had 8 inch bodies and just two ladder braces, each about 1/3 in from neck and tail. I'll see if I can post pics once I'm on my laptop. Guitar style bracing would be far too heavy! And I'd use spruce rather than basswood for the braces, basswood isn't stiff enough.

Actually I am only using basswood for the kerfing around the rim to glue the top and bottom onto the rim. I'll be using 1/4" elm strips I have laying around for the bracing. I have used them before and they work well. Thank you for the pix and the recommendations. All of what you said makes sense to me and will be incorporated into my projects.
 
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Here are three of the four camp ukes I've made.

Sapele, modelled on the early 1920s Lyon & Healy. Note the heavily curved back, which allowed me to build it very lightly so it's good and loud. The wood is less than 1.8mm thick on top, sides and back.

View attachment 120456

View attachment 120455

Oak, made from a piece of the bartop which I obtained when my village pub closed. Phil Doleman owns this one.

View attachment 120454

Spruce top (with 1/16 inch plywood sides). The top on this one is at most 2mm thick. And I gave it a celluloid fretboard to tone with the pink (!) body.

View attachment 120457

And I misremembered - all these have a single brace only, running across the middle of the body, and no bridge patch at all! That's because I chose to copy the Lyon & Healey smile bridge, which has large footprint, so I reckoned I didn't need one. All these are holding up well, no signs of the top collapsing.

View attachment 120453

I reckon that 3/16 inch is far too thick, and even 1/8 (3mm) is too much. For an 8 inch body using cedar I'd thickness the top to maybe 2.2 or 2.1mm. Maybe 2.4 for the 10 inch top. So I'd guess that's around 3/32 in imperial measurements, about half what you plan!

Love them!
 
I was digging around in my wood stash and found a couple of matching redwood top remnants that would be large enough for both tops Maybe I will use that for the tops. Decisions decisions LOL!!!
 
My wood and parts piles

z1.jpg

Decisions decisions LOL

z2.jpg

I'm just about ready to get started..... Just wish it was not so darned hot out.
 
I am at the tong oil phase of my walnut 2 neck 2x6 string console grand steel guitar project. So I'm ready to dive in with both feet on the camp uke projects while the oil dries and cures. I am going to build two ukes to start with. Both will be concert size but one will be right handed (for me) and the other will be left (for my daughter). Both will have redwood tops-headstocks and zebra wood backs. The necks are going to be mahogany. One neck will be short and the other standard concert length. The short neck will attach to the larger rim and the longer neck will be on the smaller rim. The rims will be 10" Diameter X 2' x 1/8" and the other 8" Diameter X 2' x 1/8" beech. On one I will use an ebony 23" fretboard and the other I will use a maple 23" fretboard. the bridge on the one with the short neck will be a standard ebony uke style saddle w bone bridge and nut and the other will have an ebony tail piece, nut and a banjo style bridge (an experiment in sound to see which direction I will go when I build my tenor and soprano camp/banjo uke projects that are scheduled to come next.

Ok I guess I have it all planned out now.... Tomorrow I start cutting.... Wish me luck..... L.D.
 
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