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Thread: Plastic/celluloid binding?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Little River, California
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    2,156

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    I can't address your question concerning the use of ABS bindings, but I have used faux tortoise shell (cellulose nitrate) binding many times and find it easy to work with. Much easier than wood binding (which I prefer) because no bending is involved and it sands and polishes up well. I buy it from LMI directly because I live relatively close by to Windsor, California where LMI is lacated so pay no shipping charges which are exorbitant. I use CA to glue it and have had no problems. Cellulose nitrate is not affected by CA. You could try using the stuff below from StewMac if you chose.

    Use Bind-ALL for gluing all these bindings and trims:
    ABS plastic
    Celluloid nitrate
    Butyrate
    Vinyl


    StewMac_Bind_ALL_Guitar_Binding_Glue.jpg

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Ceiriog Delta
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    307

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb2 View Post
    Hi Alan, I've seen other forums suggest UHU Hart for this purpose, is that what you mean? As for CA, I've always found it's not good for plastics, or at least certain plastics, so I probably wouldn't chance it. This is one reason I asked the question about the difference between celluloid and abs, maybe ca works ok on one but not the other, I don't know.
    Thanks Mike
    Hi Mike. As you know, I've just used red pearl Chinese celluloid binding for the first time on a soprano uke. I actually really like the finished effect on that instrument. Before starting, I contacted UHU technical department for their advice on a suitable glue and somewhat to my surprise their first answer was epoxy! Now I always get into a mess with epoxy on fiddly jobs and didn't really want to use it, so went back to them for more suggestions. They came back with either UHU Hart or UHU Allplast, both readily available in the UK from eBay. I went with Hart, because it has some form of nitro in its formulation which I thought might be helpful for gluing celluloid.

    If I was going to use ABS, I suspect Allplast would be the one to try.

    I carried out some tests by gluing small pieces of celluloid binding to some scrap oak. I tried epoxy, CA and UHU Hart and frankly I couldn't tell much difference in the adhesion. I was able to flick all the samples off the wood by using the edge of a chisel, but since Hart was the least messy for me to use (and with no prospect of gluing myself to the uke as would surely have happened with CA) I went with that.

    I followed Beau Hannams suggestion of gluing in the purfling strip first with titebond using ABS binding as a backing. That worked very well and I'll be doing it again.

    Update - just found the 2nd reply from UHU:

    "both UHU Allplast and UHU Hart could work. Although, UHU Allplast is usually used to cold-weld glueable synthetics it would work on wood, too. If you use this adhesive the celluloid piece should not be too thin since there will be a superficial dissolution of the material. This bond would retain some elasticity.

    UHU Hart also works with your materials, but would, as the name suggests, create a very stiff bond. The connection between the materials would be strong, but heavy vibrations or thermal expansion in the materials could lead to detaching of the glue layer from one of the materials.

    If you want to avoid adhesives with organic solvents, UHU Max Repair extreme could be an alternative. This adhesive cures with the humidity from the air, works in almost all applications and stays a bit more elastic (which you will not notice in thin layers. "

    Reading that again maybe Allplast should have been my first choice, though I vaguely recollect having already ordered a tube of Hart before I received the reply!
    Last edited by Wildestcat; 09-06-2019 at 11:13 PM.
    Cheers
    Paul

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Stockport, Cheshire.
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    Thanks Paul, hope you're doing well. I'll probably end up buying Hart, as you have successfully used it, and it seems to be widely recommended for this use. But first I have to buy some binding, and I'm having trouble deciding exactly what I want. Decisions, decisions!!!
    cheers Mike

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Canberra, AU
    Posts
    48

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    For celluloid and ABS bindings I use Weldon 16, which is a solvent glue used in the acrylic/perspex industry. A solvent glue that sticks well to wood. One disadvantage is that when gluing thin ABS purflings the glue will almost dissolve the purfling strip if applied too liberally. Any acetone based solvent glue will work with celluloid and ABS, and any model airplane supplier will have a couple of different kinds to try, even the balsa cement some of us may have used many years ago. Another approach to celluloid which, I have only tried once, is to point the surface of the celluloid with acetone to slightly soften it and then use Titebond. There is a 10 second or so window to wet a short length of binding with the acetone and get it in place before it evaporates, but some well respected colleagues in the guitar world have used this technique for years with no problems.

    Cheers

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Little River, California
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    Interesting technique of painting on acetone and then using Titebond to glue on celluloid nitrate to wood. I've never heard of that technique, but I suppose it would work as the glue mixes with the dissolved celluloid. However, it seems to me you are mixing a water based substrate with a solvent based substrate which is like mixing the proverbial oil and water. Still I could see how it might work... I tried using Weldon 16 once and hated it. If you are not careful you can get a sticky mess. But some swear by it. To each his own... Just use CA and call it a day. Glues bindings to wood like the hammers of hell. Below some faux tortoiseshell binding using CA on a thin-line uke I made.

    uke.jpg

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Mangawhai NZ
    Posts
    406

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    I've found that Weldon 16 glues plastic binding to wood really well. Very easy to use but it does make a helluva mess.
    Miguel

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Stockport, Cheshire.
    Posts
    387

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    Thanks everyone for the contributions. Much appreciated. Mike.

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