High Action or No

johnnysmash

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I often hear it said that, maybe your action is set too high when I say I cannot do all barre chords. So I took my Kala Baritone Ukulele to a guitar shop. The most popular one around this area and it is quite a large shop and very popular. Korat, Thailand has more than a half million people. The man looked over my ukulele and played it for about 10 minutes. He sounded good like he had been playing ukulele all his life. As he handed my ukulele back to me he said, "No need set up. All is OK." Well six months later I am still not so sure. So now I can tell you what I did and ask your opinion.

I loosened the strings and slid the white bone piece out. Now the strings were lower and laying over the wood of the bridge. This action lowered the strings at the bridge approximately 1/8 th inch. I played it for over 30 minutes and there was no problem and no string buzzing. It did play easier. So does that tell me that my action is too high?
 
There are basically two areas to measure. The string height at the first fret and the string height at the 12th fret.

For setting the string height at the first fret I fret the string at the 3rd fret and check the gap at the first fret. There should be a minimal space at the first fret. However to lower the string height you need nut files.

The string height at the 12th fret is easier. Generally 2.5mm is the string height above the 12th fret. You can go to 3mm or to 2.25mm (maybe less) based on personal preference; and neck/fret straightness/installation and string tension.

If you took the saddle out and are playing the ukulele, first measure the height of the strings at the 12th fret. Put the saddle back in and measure the height at the 12fret. At least you’ll know the maximum you can take off the saddle. Regardless you need to have a saddle in the bridge and not just lay the strings on top of the bridge.

Either sand the saddle down yourself or take it to a shop. There could be a problem if a guitar tech plays heavy steel strings. Your nylon string baritone will be easy to play no matter how high the action is set. But if you know the measurements it is not just feel.

John
 
I can't find it right now, but I heard a recommendation for checking the action at the nut. When you press down on the second fret, you should just be able to slide a business card between the string and the first fret. I may not have that right, but that's the way I remember it form several sources.

EDIT: This is good.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html
 
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A quick and dirty method to check if the string height is too high at the nit is to tune the ukulele and then fret the strings at the first fret. If they go sharp the strings at the nut are probably too high. This is probably re-unforced if the sharpness goes away a little up the fretboard... maybe the 5th fret.

Note: There could be intonation issues due to scale length (nut-saddle) but generally a sharp 1st fret note is indicative of strings too high at the nut.

John
 
Looks like I have the correct set up or very close. 12 fret measures with ruler 1/8" as close as I can tell. I fretted 3rd fret and slid a business card at fret one. Felt a slight drag when pulling the card in and out. For now I will do nothing. In the future, maybe. I would first buy a new bone/plastic the same size I have now. Then if I screw up the bone I can replace it now and not be without a ukulele while I order another.

Thank you for the help. johnnysmash
 
Looks like I have the correct set up or very close. 12 fret measures with ruler 1/8" as close as I can tell. I fretted 3rd fret and slid a business card at fret one. Felt a slight drag when pulling the card in and out. For now I will do nothing. In the future, maybe. I would first buy a new bone/plastic the same size I have now. Then if I screw up the bone I can replace it now and not be without a ukulele while I order another.

Thank you for the help. johnnysmash

Your nut is definitely too high for comfort. A piece of printer paper which *just* catches as you pull it out between string and first fret is at the top end of what I'd say is decent action.

1/8 at the 12th fret is about right for a baritone, which means someone needs to shave down your bridge (if there's enough there) and lower the saddle.

Set up that way it will be a pleasure to play!
 
Usually when you are having trouble barre fretting at the first fret, the action at the nut is too high, and the slots need adjusting. Or the thickness/tension of the strings may be too much for your fingers to get a clean barre.

Adjusting the bone saddle at the bridge doesn't affect the 1st fret as much. Because of the angles involved.

I'd try thinner, more bendy strings before changing the nut and bridge heights.

There are a number of "How to" videos on YouTube about adjusting your Nut and saddle. The width, depth and angles of the slots are very important. So if you attempt to adjust it yourself go very slowly with only tiny, tiny amounts at a time.

You want to keep the saddle vertical and sand off a small amount with even pressure side to side. Mark the saddle before you start. The bottom should be flat.

Good luck.
 

I decided I wanted to adjust my action so I got these nut files and string lifter. I was very happy with the results. I am NOT particularly mechanically inclined but with some reading here and elsewhere on the internet, I was able to tackle the job.
 
2mm is the absolute maximum height at 12th fret for me.

The sweetspot for me is around 1.7mm.

This is lower than what most people prefer, but it's what suits my playing style.
 
I read where people say one does not need any pressure to fret any chord. I think that is nonsense unless one tunes the string down 3 to 5 half steps. Otherwise the string just buzzes when you lay your finger on it or across it. The only way I can just barley touch a string and get a decent note is when there is some pressure applied. I tried my baritone with the bone out and the strings laying over the wood. The ukulele sounded good and no string buzzing so I am thinking of filing it down as close as I can to that position. Worst I can do is make it too low and then buy a new plastic/bone to replace the over filed one.
 
Your nut is definitely too high for comfort. A piece of printer paper which *just* catches as you pull it out between string and first fret is at the top end of what I'd say is decent action.

1/8 at the 12th fret is about right for a baritone, which means someone needs to shave down your bridge (if there's enough there) and lower the saddle.

Set up that way it will be a pleasure to play!

I think I understand. I do not fret anywhere - just slide the paper under the first fret. Yes/No?

I did slide a single sheet of paper under the first fret including the first fret wire. I could still see space between the paper and the strings so I folded the paper and tried with the double thickness. It was very hard to see but it appeared that there was still a very small space . I felt no drag even with the double paper. So I am assuming that I need to lower the strings at the first fret a small amount, about the thickness of one sheet of paper.

What do nut files look like? What are there proper names if I order them through the internet. Most clerks in Thailand have not a clue when one ask if they have something. I shop best by sight. Many times I have been told, "Oh, sorry sir, no stock", only to look around the store and fine what I was looking for. English to Thai can make shopping in local stores a real challenge unless you can find it yourself.

Thank you for your help.
 
I wasn't clear. Fret a string between frets 2 and 3. Check the gap between fret 1 and the string. If it's more than the piece of paper the nut slot is not deep enough.

Proper nut files are expensive and hard to find. On a cheaper uke, a junior hacksaw blade and some welding tip cleaners can be used - look for YouTube videos to show you how.
 
I think I understand. I do not fret anywhere - just slide the paper under the first fret. Yes/No?

I did slide a single sheet of paper under the first fret including the first fret wire. I could still see space between the paper and the strings so I folded the paper and tried with the double thickness. It was very hard to see but it appeared that there was still a very small space . I felt no drag even with the double paper. So I am assuming that I need to lower the strings at the first fret a small amount, about the thickness of one sheet of paper.

What do nut files look like? What are there proper names if I order them through the internet. Most clerks in Thailand have not a clue when one ask if they have something. I shop best by sight. Many times I have been told, "Oh, sorry sir, no stock", only to look around the store and fine what I was looking for. English to Thai can make shopping in local stores a real challenge unless you can find it yourself.

Thank you for your help.

Stew Mac has nut files for ukuleles. As well as for guitars, mandolins and banjos. You can see pictures on their website. I believe one edge is smooth, and the other has the abrasive tooth.

My understanding is that the angle of the bottom of the slot, from the front of the nut to the tuners, is important to maintain. And it should be rounded, not flat, to avoid buzzing.

I think Barry Maz has a video on adjusting the nut on his website gotaukulele.com

Go slowly and carefully as you are filing. Tiny amounts at a time.
 
Hi, Johnny!

I am not talking best action here but talking the action which might be suitable for your barre practice. I always keep my guitar's action very low. And I was interested in how much we can lower the action. I've read very interesting site which was wrote by Japanese classical guitar teacher. He always sets up his new students nuts and saddles. Especially he lowers ladies saddle and nuts as low as making buzz. All of his female students new guitars have buzz. I thought that might be fantastic idea. New students, new guitars and buzz. This guitar (see the photo below) is Martin Backpacker. This one is my latest guitar and I like it very much. I bought this one a couple of months ago. I bought three pieces of nuts (see the photo below) for this guitar. They are the left three pieces. And I've sand one of them. You can see how much I've sanded bottom. It is more than 5 mm. And the (Martin's) original one (the left one) is almost the same as spare ones. I've sanded bottom, and nut slots are intact. Sanding bottom and sides are far easier than handle nut slots, because we can see it. I only use sand papers for set up nut and saddle for this guitar. I have already set up many guitars before but I have never lowered as much as making buzz before. But this time my mission was to make buzz. :)
I've got successfully buzz this time. But guitar's neck bends by string tension. After I strung all of them, the buzz disappear. This is important point too. Even if we've got buzz, it may disappear afterwards. We can get spare nuts and saddles in the internet very easily. The width is most important dimension of nut. If your ukulele is 37mm nut. Look for 37mm nuts. If you have spare ones and your original one intact, you can test actions as much as you want by yourself. And you can decide the best action, which includes as low as making buzz, for your barre practice by yourself. All of my guitar's nuts are not glued.



In usual, nuts are easy to remove by hand. But the nut in this Martin Backpacker was glued very tight. The photo shows wood tips on the bottom of the nut. I have never seen this wood tips before. I actually could not remove this nut and I brought it to repair shop. He tried it with wood piece and hammer first but he could not. Then he used pliers first to loosen the nut and used wood piece and hammer.

The way to check the nut height is as follows. We need to understand the figures below. The top figure is cape on 2nd fret and I pushed 5th fret. You can easily imagine that 3rd fret wire is contacted (I wrote "almost contact" in the figure though). Same thing happens on the bottom figure. The first fret wire can be contacted. My guitars have
contacts on they are all ok and no buzz. Zero fret may help your under standing (green arrow in the figure). This is actually same as nut itself.





We are not talking best set up. We just talking better set up for barre practice. My Martin Backpacker's 12th action is shown below. It is as low as the 1st string of Electric guitar (circle red right). It should be the 6th string of Acoustic guitar (circle right). It has no buzz.

 
I wasn't clear. Fret a string between frets 2 and 3. Check the gap between fret 1 and the string. If it's more than the piece of paper the nut slot is not deep enough.

I placed the same small piece of paper under the strings over the first fret wire and barred fret 3. The paper would not fall out but could be easily pulled out. If I just placed the paper there and turned the ukulele over the paper fell out. So I now believe that I am OK at fret 1 and that the nut is right. I can barre with my ring finger so I barred fret one and all notes rang sweetly. I am still thinking about lowering the strings at the saddle, just a little. Thank you for your help. I learned something this time. Maybe I can remember it.
 
YAHLELE, I missed something or did not understand something. Why, or what is the reason the teacher set the guitar so low that it buzzed? What is the benefit of doing that?
 
I placed the same small piece of paper under the strings over the first fret wire and barred fret 3. The paper would not fall out but could be easily pulled out. If I just placed the paper there and turned the ukulele over the paper fell out. So I now believe that I am OK at fret 1 and that the nut is right.



Hi, Johonny! We look at the space there (see the arrow in the photo). I think you are ok. That space should be less than a piece of paper.

The teacher doesn't matter buzz just want students play barre chords easily. Hence he loweres the action in order to make buzz.
 


If you want the easiest action for your barre on the 1st fret, it can be attached.
 
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