How to define "Hawaiian Sound"? What makes an Ukulele "Sound Hawaiian"?

Wukulele

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How to define "Hawaiian Sound"? What makes an Ukulele "Sound Hawaiian"?

Discuss:

How would uke experienced &/or native/long-term Hawaiian uke players would describe what they mean by "that Hawaiian sound"...

It's clear that Hawaiian ukuleles have a distinctly different sound from Tahitian ukuleles. But what makes an ukulele "Hawaiian sounding"?

I understand this may be challenging to put into words. High quality audio examples might help (not just the recording, but on speakers).

My pondering stems from being hesitant to stray from nylon strings on some of my ukuleles (I'm fine w/ the way they sound, less so w/ the way they feel... as opposed to liking the sound & feel of PhD's & most fluorocarbon strings).
 
Good question. When I hear "Hawaiian Sound" then I think more about Hawaiian songs and how they are played, i.e. the Hula family of music. I can't even think about specific instruments. Though at my last visit to Hawaii less than a year ago I went to several Hula performances in Waikiki and the uke players in ALL groups played the six-string Lili'u type uke.
 
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But what makes an ukulele "Hawaiian sounding"?

The player. Period.

There are people playing amazing Hawaiian music on crappy import ukes all over Hawaiʻi (and the world). There are also people playing expensive "Hawaiian" ukes who couldn't sound Hawaiian if their life depended on it. (EDIT: The OP bristled at this so I'd like to point out that there are any number of genres: blues, bluegrass, Irish, etc... I can't play to save my life. It's just who we are as players. Everyone has different backgrounds and strengths/weaknesses.)

IMO, you're overthinking it.

How many Hawaiian slack key guitar players play "Hawaiian" guitars? A couple. Does that mean the vast majority who play Martins and Taylors and Takamines don't sound Hawaiian? Of course not.
 
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IMO, We all have the freedom to explore pretty innocuous concepts like tone, character etc of instruments, preferably w/o judgement "you're overthinking it", "people... who couldn't sound Hawaiian if their life depended on it". I don't really care if anyone wants to judge a players ability, or judge my thinking/train of thought, except that's not the topic. Judge away, as long as it's useful for exploring this concept.

There's no way that the ukes featured in this will sound Hawaiian with ANY player.
It's easy to find words to describe what a Tahitian uke (instrument & playing style) sounds like (higher pitch, strummed fast, etc).
How would one elaborate on what "Hawaiian sounding" entails?
Brands XYZ lean more towards being more "guitar-like" as opposed to the bread & butter models by Kamaka, Kanile'a etc.
How to describe the latter directly, instead of describing what it's not?



The player. Period.

There are people playing amazing Hawaiian music on crappy import ukes all over Hawaiʻi (and the world). There are also people playing expensive "Hawaiian" ukes who couldn't sound Hawaiian if their life depended on it.

IMO, you're overthinking it.

How many Hawaiian slack key guitar players play "Hawaiian" guitars? A couple. Does that mean the vast majority who play Martins and Taylors and Takamines don't sound Hawaiian? Of course not.
 
IMO, We all have the freedom to explore pretty innocuous concepts like tone, character etc of instruments, preferably w/o judgement "you're overthinking it", "people... who couldn't sound Hawaiian if their life depended on it". I don't really care if anyone wants to judge a players ability, or judge my thinking/train of thought, except that's not the topic. Judge away, as long as it's useful for exploring this concept.

There's no way that the ukes featured in this will sound Hawaiian with ANY player.
It's easy to find words to describe what a Tahitian uke (instrument & playing style) sounds like (higher pitch, strummed fast, etc).
How would one elaborate on what "Hawaiian sounding" entails?
Brands XYZ lean more towards being more "guitar-like" as opposed to the bread & butter models by Kamaka, Kanile'a etc.
How to describe the latter directly, instead of describing what it's not?


Of course. Not trying to sound judge-y. I guess I should have prefaced that post with something along the lines of:

I once was a player who looked for sound, tone, quantifications external of the MUSIC. Like you, I used to ask myself: "Maybe these strings will make me sound ____." "Maybe this uke will help me ____." "Maybe a new pedal would ____."

Essentially, I was trying to turn music into a shortcut math problem. It's something I see a ton of people do. And it makes me sad because so much time gets wasted poking around these rabbit holes. If I had that time back I would use it very differently.

Sure, much of the learning process comes from hands-on exploration. But having the whole depths of the internet's well of opinions available to you is a monster double-edged sword.

Bottom line is that I probably relate way more to your question than you realize. And the answer to my (and your) questions always appeared when I stopped thinking about it.

I started sounding like I play "Hawaiian ʻukulele" as soon as I started PLAYING like I could play Hawaiian ʻukulele. The thinking didn't do anything for the situation. Hence, "You're overthinking it."

I didn't mean it as judgement, but I still stand by my original post 100%.
 
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IMO,

There's no way that the ukes featured in this will sound Hawaiian with ANY player.




I don't think you can say that until you let Kimo Hussey or some other virtuoso try. I would imagine highly skilled players would agree with the statement that it is the player and not the instrument.
 
The player. Period.

There are people playing amazing Hawaiian music on crappy import ukes all over Hawaiʻi (and the world). There are also people playing expensive "Hawaiian" ukes who couldn't sound Hawaiian if their life depended on it. (EDIT: The OP bristled at this so I'd like to point out that there are any number of genres: blues, bluegrass, Irish, etc... I can't play to save my life. It's just who we are as players. Everyone has different backgrounds and strengths/weaknesses.)

IMO, you're overthinking it.

How many Hawaiian slack key guitar players play "Hawaiian" guitars? A couple. Does that mean the vast majority who play Martins and Taylors and Takamines don't sound Hawaiian? Of course not.

Probably your "you can't play" would sound pretty good to most of us.
 
Strictly speaking of ʻukulele configurations, there are as many variations as there are players. It might be helpful if we were able to narrow down a specific player and their sound (and even the era in the player's career), if it's a starting point you're after.

For instance, Peter Moon played probably a Martin with old-school nylon strings for classic sounds like "Kawika." Sounds Hawaiian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuE9jJOcLS4

Herb Ohta Jr. had a perfectly straight sound with a spruce top KoAloha and fluorocarbon strings. Sounds Hawaiian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7UMMjlBZcc

Eddie Kamae used a monster baritone for much of his later career. Sounds Hawaiian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey_PpCbeJQw

Just like "rock" sounds "rock" despite a million and one possible gear setups (Fender, Gibson, Marshall, Supro, Danelectro, Boss, MXR, etc...), Hawaiian ʻukulele is distinct as Hawaiian, regardless of strings or instruments. Instruments might contribute different tones, but it's the players who bring them to life.

Which they choose to portray their sound is simply preference. There's no single factor to a "Hawaiian" ʻukulele sound.

What recordings do you have in mind of "Hawaiian ʻukulele?"
 
What makes a trumpet sound South American instead of North American. The music played. That's all. Just like a violin from any corner of the globe is exactly the same instrument, but Irish folk music sounds very different to Hungarian folk music which sounds very different to bluegrass.

I don't think there is a 'Hawaiian sound' (it's a European instrument by birth after all) other than the music that comes out of it. If I play Beethoven on a 'Hawaiian' Ukulele it sounds like Beethoven played on a ukulele. If I play Hawaiian vamp chords on any of my ukuleles it sounds Hawaiian.
 
The O.P. asked:- "How would uke experienced &/or native/long-term Hawaiian uke players would describe what they mean by 'that Hawaiian sound'......"

The question seems to assume that the term "that Hawaiian sound" is commonly used and understood by experienced players, when talking about an instrument - not a musical tradition or culture. That is to say, when comparing one Hawaiian type ukulele with another Hawaiian type ukulele.

The question can only be answered by somebody who uses the term. It is not one I have encountered (used in that way) in twenty-five years of obsessive interest in the ukulele.

I found the video about those Tahitian instruments most interesting. As has been said, it is not difficult to make a distinction between those, and the traditional Hawaiian ukulele. The Tahitian instruments seem to be related more to the banjo (as stated in the video) and I hear a strong Central and South American influence in the music that they played.

John Colter
 
Another vote here for the player and play style having much more of an effect than the instrument itself. I've heard what I'd consider Hawaiian music on instruments other than ukulele, and I've heard plenty of non-Hawaiian music on completely Hawaiian ukuleles played by Hawaiian musicians.

This reminds me of the classic difference between a violin and a fiddle:

  • If Itzhak Perlman plays it: it's a violin
  • If Charlie Daniels plays it: it's a fiddle
(And then Perlman ruined the joke with his Klezmer CD ;))

To the original concern:
My pondering stems from being hesitant to stray from nylon strings on some of my ukuleles
If you like the feel and sound of fluorocarbon then I'd say: go for it. Nobody will notice that difference when trying to decide if you sound Hawaiian or not. It'll get lost in your play style.
 
If Perlman is playing, it’s a Strad.
If Jascha Heifetz or Yehudi Menuhin, it’s a (deeper) Guanari.

The difference between the two is very, VERY well discussed.
But apparently, little to no chance of that discussion when it comes to Hawaiian sounding ukes, on UU, at this rate.
I wasn’t seeking advice, just giving context for how I came to thinking about “Hawaiian Sounding” & thought it’d be an interesting discussion topic.


Another vote here for the player and play style having much more of an effect than the instrument itself. I've heard what I'd consider Hawaiian music on instruments other than ukulele, and I've heard plenty of non-Hawaiian music on completely Hawaiian ukuleles played by Hawaiian musicians.

This reminds me of the classic difference between a violin and a fiddle:

  • If Itzhak Perlman plays it: it's a violin
  • If Charlie Daniels plays it: it's a fiddle
(And then Perlman ruined the joke with his Klezmer CD ;))

To the original concern:
If you like the feel and sound of fluorocarbon then I'd say: go for it. Nobody will notice that difference when trying to decide if you sound Hawaiian or not. It'll get lost in your play style.
 
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Wukulele, I'd be interested to know where you have heard, or seen, the phrase "Hawaiian sounding ukes". Someone who said that might be referring to a difference in sound, which they perceive, between a ukulele made of Koa, and one of Mahogany.

There is a marked difference in sound (when strummed) between a ukulele with re-entrant tuning, and one with low "G". To me, re-entrant tuning sounds very traditional. Perhaps that's it?

Please enlighten me. I'm trying to understand.

John Colter
 
If Perlman is playing, it’s a Strad.
If Jascha Heifetz or Yehudi Menuhin, it’s a (deeper) Guanari
Your example makes me think you mean something different by "Hawaiian sounding" than most of us are interpreting that phrase. I think of "Hawaiian sounding" as much more of a genre marker than a specific instrument tone.

I'd compare "Hawaiian sounding" to "Classical sounding" or "Klezmer sounding". Going back to Perlman ruining the joke: he's playing the same instrument (Strat) for classical and Klezmer. It's how he plays that makes the genre difference.

If you're trying to make tone differences then that's discussed often, and I'd be curious to know what you think is Hawaiian sounding. Are there any particular makes and models that you consider more or less Hawaiian sounding? That may help to discuss the difference.

[edit: Perlman plays a Strad not a Strat. The concept makes me giggle though so I'm just hanging a lampshade on the typo rather than fixing it]
 
Wukulele, I'd be interested to know where you have heard, or seen, the phrase "Hawaiian sounding ukes". Someone who said that might be referring to a difference in sound, which they perceive, between a ukulele made of Koa, and one of Mahogany.

Probably most commonly on the HMS podcasts/videos (11 years worth here: https://www.youtube.com/user/HawaiiMusicSupply/videos)
& reviews on their individual uke pages (not a lot of talk on the embedded Vimeo sound samples).

Lots of variations on "traditional tones that rings the nostalgic sound of old Hawaii" on UkuleleFriend.com

It pops up when searching this site not w/ search box but on google... Just found this thread that pretty much asks the same question
https://forum.ukuleleunderground.co...Is-There-a-Traditional-Hawaiian-Ukulele-Sound
(Haven't read this 5+ year old thread yet)

"XYZ brand are more "Hawaiian-sounding"" https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?125700-should-I-buy-a-Kanilea

"XYZ is THE quintessential tenor ukulele sound" https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?81840-The-Kamaka-Sound

and more threads that get more specific about each K-brand's individual sound...
 
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LOL on "strat"... almost started making guitar comparisons, food comparisons (Neopolitan vs Sicilian, Shanghai vs Sichuan), car/motorcycle comparisons, but kinda gave up... There are distinct sensory differences...

I'm sure someone can come up w/ an argument against this but I bet there's some distinctive (stark) sound differences between plastic/carbon fiber/non-wood/partial-wood ukes & a koa K-brand (I haven't ever played an e-Koa uke yet). A lot of that is evident even from videos recorded w/o fancy or played on better speakers.
Probably most Romero Creations? Flight (Kremona)?

Your example makes me think you mean something different by "Hawaiian sounding" than most of us are interpreting that phrase. I think of "Hawaiian sounding" as much more of a genre marker than a specific instrument tone.

I'd compare "Hawaiian sounding" to "Classical sounding" or "Klezmer sounding". Going back to Perlman ruining the joke: he's playing the same instrument (Strat) for classical and Klezmer. It's how he plays that makes the genre difference.

If you're trying to make tone differences then that's discussed often, and I'd be curious to know what you think is Hawaiian sounding. Are there any particular makes and models that you consider more or less Hawaiian sounding? That may help to discuss the difference.

[edit: Perlman plays a Strad not a Strat. The concept makes me giggle though so I'm just hanging a lampshade on the typo rather than fixing it]
 
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Wukulele, thanks for the examples you provided in response to my query. I have read the five year old UU thread and the general consensus seems to be that a re-entrant Koa soprano best provides "that Hawaiian sound".

Regarding the HMS videos, I am not surprised that an enterprise bent on selling ukuleles uses references like "Hawaiian sound".

Probably the most authentically Hawaiian sounding ukulele I have owned was a Kumalae. I confess I didn't bond with it and sold it on. My favourite uke, is my KoAloha soprano. I also own a 1950s (I think) Martin Style 1, and a 1928 Gibson. Both of these battered beauties also produce the sort of sounds I like, but I am predominantly a strummer and crooner.

Another current favourite is my Ken Timms replica of a traditional Hawaiian soprano. Ken faithfully reproduced the features of an early Hawaiian ukulele, but using mahogany for the body. He employed the traditional construction methods, too, complete with lots of hairy string! It closely resembles a Kumalae, but has a very different sound - I love it!

If there is a quintessentially Hawaiian sound, which some ukuleles have and others do not, then I don't think I would be able to identify it. For me, it is in the type of music played, and the player's style.

John Colter
 
I’m seeing a lot of answers that say it’s the artist and the song that determine if the sound is “Hawaiian.” I think this video illustrates the OP’s real question. Same Hawaiian artist (Aaron Crowell) playing the same Hawaiian song (Island Style) on 9 different instruments. Listen to what everyone says about the tone of the Lotus and the I’iwi compared to the other models. Why are those two considered “Hawaiian sounding?” But the same person playing the same song on another instrument is described as “guitar like”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ieBqCIE7U
 
That's an interesting video, for sure, but too much yacketty-yacking for my pathetic attention span. I managed to listen to the first six instruments. They all sound wonderful, in their own ways. I was particularly drawn to the Grimes, but I can't say why. I have to confess that to me, a player of sopranos only, all tenors sound "guitar-like".

I'll read the rest of this thread with interest.

John Colter
 
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