Gluing up the back?

Sawdust

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I have a set of plans that shows running a strip of wood the entire length of the back where the glue joint is, it says to run it so that the grain runs cross way of the glue joint. What type of wood do you all use for this? If I use quarter sawn as it says to, it would take a very wide board unless I put it on using small length pieces.

Thanks!
Sawdust
 
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I have a set of plans that shows running a strip of wood the entire length of the back where the glue joint is, it says to run it so that the grain runs cross way of the glue joint. What type of wood do you all use for this? If I use quarter sawn as it says to, it would take a very wide board unless I put it on using small length pieces.

Thanks!
Sawdust

I don't understand that recommendation. It seems to me that the grain of the strip of wood should really run the same direction as the grain of the back pieces. Otherwise you have differential seasonal movement that will eventually cause the glue to fail.
 
I don't understand that recommendation. It seems to me that the grain of the strip of wood should really run the same direction as the grain of the back pieces. Otherwise you have differential seasonal movement that will eventually cause the glue to fail.

That's my thoughts as well, if done right the glue joint will be as strong if not stronger than the rest of the wood. Usually wood will brake somewhere else before it brakes in the glue joint, that is, if it's done right.
 
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I would have no qualms in following the instructions on the plans. Having the grain of the strip lengthwise will work against the curve or bulge of the back and will decrease the flexibility of the structure.

Either way will work. Choose which seems best to you.

John Colter
 
The purpose of the strip is to mitigate against the back halves from separating from each other. It is a long cleat. If the grain runs the same direction of the back joint a crack can develop through the strip. In this application quartered wood is not needed and it might be more desirable to have the grain running at a 45 degree angle rather than straight up and down.
 
Here is what I think: This may be a case of thinking that ukuleles are just little guitars and should be built like them. The stresses on the back of an ukulele are much less than on a dreadnought guitar because the joint between the braces is much shorter. That being said, I have come to the conclusion that a back reinforcement strip can't hurt and is extra insurance. Here is how I do it:

I put on the braces first. Then I take cut off pieces from my spruce top plates (quarter sawn) and sand them down to about 0.060" (~1.5 mm). I cut strips about 3/4" wide and take off the edges to create a bevel. Then I glue in the strips with the grain perpendicular to the grain of the back. I do this because cross grained laminates (which is what you are making) are inherently stronger than parallel grained laminates. Think plywood.

You will immediately find out that cross grained thin strips of spruce are extremely fragile and will break along the grain lines unless you are careful. No matter. Glue them in and make sure to butt them against the braces.

In the end analysis, I've built many ukes without back joint reinforcement and have had no problems. Also many commercial uke manufacturers don't use them. But I figure it can't hurt and it is easy to do so why not.
 
I prepare my back grafts much as Sequoia does although my procedure is a little different.
I make up a bunch at a time. I’ll take two plates of mahogany and glue them up much as I would a top or back and run it through my drum sander to my final thickness. Then on my table saw sled I will cut strips about 3/4” wide. Depending upon the length of the board I’ll get about 20 of them.
I will glue this strip on the back first, held down with my go-bars. Working quickly I then notch our the 1/4” gap I need for the braces and then glue those on. If you work within a reasonable rate of speed those little sections or wood pop right out. I find it quicker and less tedious than if I were to glue the braces in first. Just another way of doing things.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
The purpose of the strip is to mitigate against the back halves from separating from each other. It is a long cleat. If the grain runs the same direction of the back joint a crack can develop through the strip. In this application quartered wood is not needed and it might be more desirable to have the grain running at a 45 degree angle rather than straight up and down.

Assuming the back strip was the same thickness as the back, then the reinforced section would be twice as thick as the rest of the back, meaning the reinforced section would be twice as strong as the rest of the back. The grain of the reinforcing strip is rarely going to be exactly parallel to the back or the seam between the back pieces (any runoff to the side or waviness will make them nonparallel), so there likely isn't going to be the weakness that you're postulating). It seems to me that the area of the center strip is likely to be twice as strong as any other part of the back, even with the grain going in the same direction, and any cracks are likely to happen elsewhere. The center strip perhaps comes from a history of glue joint failures at the back seam, due to the very limited surface area and difficultly in clamping the joint with much pressure. The center strip increases glue area by 25x (or whatever) and is easy to clamp. If you're just preventing a glue joint failure at the seam, grain direction doesn't matter. But it might matter eventually if the center strip glue fails due to seasonal movement.

Of course, I'm not an expert and I could be wrong about this. If anyone has examined a number of cracked instrument backs and found the center is where they tend to crack, that would be good information. I have heard that backs tend to crack beyond the ends of the cross braces (if they're not run all the way to the sides), so it may be that the cross braces are really what are preventing cracks, and the center strip grain orientation may not be that significant.
 
Assuming the back strip was the same thickness as the back, then the reinforced section would be twice as thick as the rest of the back, meaning the reinforced section would be twice as strong as the rest of the back. The grain of the reinforcing strip is rarely going to be exactly parallel to the back or the seam between the back pieces (any runoff to the side or waviness will make them nonparallel), so there likely isn't going to be the weakness that you're postulating). It seems to me that the area of the center strip is likely to be twice as strong as any other part of the back, even with the grain going in the same direction, and any cracks are likely to happen elsewhere. The center strip perhaps comes from a history of glue joint failures at the back seam, due to the very limited surface area and difficultly in clamping the joint with much pressure. The center strip increases glue area by 25x (or whatever) and is easy to clamp. If you're just preventing a glue joint failure at the seam, grain direction doesn't matter. But it might matter eventually if the center strip glue fails due to seasonal movement.

Of course, I'm not an expert and I could be wrong about this. If anyone has examined a number of cracked instrument backs and found the center is where they tend to crack, that would be good information. I have heard that backs tend to crack beyond the ends of the cross braces (if they're not run all the way to the sides), so it may be that the cross braces are really what are preventing cracks, and the center strip grain orientation may not be that significant.

I'm no expert either, but seasonal movement is exactly the purpose of the back strip, and why cross grain is preferable. I'm not one to argue with centuries of experience. As Sequoia said, it's insurance.
 
... If you're just preventing a glue joint failure at the seam, grain direction doesn't matter. But it might matter eventually if the center strip glue fails due to seasonal movement....

Yes it is for glue joint failure. Would the strip work with the grain lengthwise? Probably. But that one in 10,000 case probably not. But it is easy to put the grain crosswise and then there is no question of it surviving. I have one body where the crack developed alongside the strip, it was put through dry conditions. It is going to be a pain trying to fix it.
 
In the past, I have worked on a couple of older guitars that did have a back splice were the splice wood grain did run the same as the back plates. On one guitar the cracks formed in the back plate next to the splice making it a pain to repair. On the other guitar, the back splice split but not the back plate. In both cases, I removed the entire back splice pieces and added a new back splice made of quality spruce with the grain direction 90 degrees to the back plate.
 
That center piece is there to stop the back joint from opening up. The braces are plenty to support the back structurally....but a hard knock might crack the center glue joint. You only have 2mm thick wood so its a pretty thin glue joint. The grain on the center strip should run across the joint so the strip won't split too.
I agree that this is a hand-me-down from guitar building and less necessary on ukuleles. I still recommend adding some joint support, especially between the back braces where you have the most exposed joint.
You can use several short pieces. The cross grain hides glue joints very well. Keep your best pieces where you can see it through the sound hole.
 
Just tried Chuck Moore's method of installing the center joint support first and then cutting out the section for the cross braces. It saved a lot of time because I was able to put in the center joint without thickness sanding, and then thickness sand the brace before installing the cross braces. Thanks for the idea Chuck!!
 
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