Pete Howlett Talks About Setup and Radiused Fingerboards

Kenn2018

Kenn2018

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Pete Howlett has commented several times on his blog about setup on ukuleles. In his most recent installment on FB, he comments about radiused fingerboards on ukuleles. (Spoiler: he doesn't offer them.)

Then he talks about setup and the action on his ukuleles. It's quite informative. Pete has some strong opinions about setup.

He believes the magic is at the nut, and is actually more important than the 12th fret.

Oh, and he mentions that the industry standard for string spacing is 10mm (3/8") regardless of nut width. (I guess that explains the Ko'Aloha nut on their tenors.)

Anyway, it's worth a listen. You don't have to belong to FaceBook to listen to it: https://www.facebook.com/no1petehowlett/videos/10157935071551031/

The original post took a day to appear, and it showed up in "Ukulele Marketplace". :confused: I guess posting late at night is problematic for me. Or, I took too many mushrooms. "One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small..." Apologies that I couldn't repeat the comments made on the original post.
 
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Very interesting, especially seeing the process he uses to gauge how high to set the saddle to get his desired action of 2.25 mm at the 12th fret. Unfortunately he was a bit less clear about the height at the nut, as he seemed to be saying it needed to be set at 0.050" at the nut, to clear a first fret that is 0.040" - but what does that give for a string height over the first fret? With some simple trig though and the measurements he gave us you can calculate that the string height at the first fret ought to be 0.0585", or 0.0185" over the fret. Which I find pretty satisfying, since I've always used 0.020" (~0.5 mm) as a target for string height over the first fret.
 
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... following watching the video, the Deacon shown at the end (Nº 927) is no longer available. There went my bonus...
 
Were it all so simple eh?
.050" = 1.2mm. The Stewmac fretwire I use is 0.040" or 1.02mm. All correct there because the shim and bar method is a 'guide' and a system I developed for my #UFS enabling a semi-skilled 'apprentice' luthier learn how to get the feel of setting the string height at the nut. It is also a 'standard' I use for my kits which contain a 0.050' shim, 3.2mm and 3.5mm bar and 500mm metric rule/straight edge.

So that is the schtick. Reality is that most people learning how to cut string ramps either overcut or undercut the slot depth despite there being a hardened piece of steel limiting the ability to do so. What I don't show is how I go on to fine tune the action at the nut bringing it down to the more likely height of 0.046". Now for the most part, I often don't now the style of music my clients play, how hard or soft they play because I run an internet business, Therefore I can only go by what I feel is an acceptable height that will enable the playability to be 'easy' and clean. I have not had one person ask me to lower the action further and the comment most often given is that my instruments play better than their factory ones - hardly a fair comparison but you get the idea.

Many aspects of building can best be described as part of the 'dark arts'. Making a smooth, slick and buzz free string set-up is not easily explained and like most of my demos I can only ever tell part o the story. I've built 940 instruments to date. I make that about 30,000+ hours. Do I make mistakes? Of course I do. Do I know what I am doing? Well, some days I think I may just be getting the hang of this.....
 
Pete,
I share your concern for the nut end of the set up.

What I've been taught is that one should be able to press down between the 2nd and 3rd fret, hold a piece of standard computer paper at the 1st fret between fret and string.
This is how I've been taught to set up a ukulele properly at the nut. Is this bad practice?
 
It's not my practice and since I have never tried it I just cannot comment. I'll try it tomorrow and return and report.
 
ukeanixi said:
Pete,
standard computer paper at the 1st fret between fret and string.
Click to expand...

Most copier paper is about .003" or a tad more. What I've heard and used as my standard for fretted clearance at the 1st fret is the thickness of a cigarette rolling paper. Since my exposure to rolling paper was in the Northern California of the 1960s, anything that I claim to remember is suspect but I know that what I'm looking for when doing setups is just daylight peeking through between the fret and the string. Another way of putting it is that when a string is fretted between the 2nd and 3rd frets and then touched over the first fret, it should deflect downward just a part of a smidgen, or less, before touching the fret. Assuming about .090" clearance over the 12th fret, you have a decent chance of buzz-free and comfortable playability.

The only thickness I could find for rolling paper in a quick Google search was 51 to 53 microns, or about .002". Thus, if one follows the rolling paper rule, copier paper is too thick IF you have zeroed in on the exact strings you want to use on that instrument. If you're trying out different strings for tonal quality and tension on a particular instrument, you may not want to start out with bare minimum clearance with the first string set, as a setup that plays buzz-free with one string may not work so well with another string. It's easier and quicker to take a bit more bone out of the slot later than to take too much out at the beginning and wait for the bone to grow back.

Of course, as is always true in luthiery, congenial disputation is never far away or out of order and Pete's 30,000+ hours certainly makes his approach very interesting and well worth listening to. :)
 
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saltytri said:
Most copier paper is about .003" or a tad more. What I've heard and used as my standard for fretted clearance at the 1st fret is the thickness of a cigarette rolling paper. Since my exposure to rolling paper was in the Northern California of the 1960s, anything that I claim to remember is suspect but I know that what I'm looking for when doing setups is just daylight peeking through between the fret and the string. The only thickness I could find for rolling paper in a quick Google search was 51 to 53 microns, or about .002". Thus, if one follows the rolling paper rule, copier paper is too thick. Of course, as is always true in luthiery, congenial disputation is never far away or out of order and Pete's 30,000+ hours certainly makes his method well worth listening to. :)
Click to expand...

Don't remember anyone disputing Pete's method...certainly not me!

I'm curious though about Pete's opinion of the method. Hopefully tomorrow. I may just be looking for a 50mil shim tomorrow afternoon.
 
ukeanixi said:
Don't remember anyone disputing Pete's method...certainly not me!
Click to expand...

Right! And I certainly don't want to be be disputatious since I can hardly spell it. Anyway, isn't there a saying about not be able to learn anything while you're talking?
 
The third fret paper method is sort of what I use too. I start by just lowering each nut slot till there isn't much clearance between the string and the first fret with the string depressed at the third fret. Then to get really close, I like to put a capo on the third fret, and check the final clearance with two layers of "20 lb" print-copy paper, which comes to about 0.008" in thickness. I like there to be a drag on two sheets, but not much drag on one sheet.

And note when doing this that the final adjustment at the nut should only be done when the action at the saddle is close to what you want. With a little geometry again you can show that the action at the first fret will be reduced by 5.6% of whatever change you make at the saddle. If you had high action at the 12th fret of say 0.120" (3 mm), and wanted to drop it to 0.085" (2.2 mm), you would have to lower the saddle by 0.070". That will have the effect of lowering the string height at the first fret by 0.004". If you first adjust the nut height so that one sheet of paper just cleared (0.004"), then lowered the saddle by 0.070", you could well be bottoming out on the first fret.
 
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Similar, Bill. I love the Facebook videos as, thanks to the distinctive markings on the back and sides on mine, I can spot it at various stages of construction - either in the background or centre stage. It's really strange watching the set up being done, with final adjustments to the nut, or listening to two different back to back comparisons. Reminded me of the photographic record of construction that came with my Morgan.
 
Not sure what y'all are trying to say. It's not about a rule of thumb - my 50 thou shim is a starting point and a good one at that. Obsession about action has in my opinion migrated into the ukulele world from the guitar playing world and is usually driven by reviewers of instruments who do a great job of helping us to understand what to look for. BUT if you are a 300lb, 7 foot giant with the grip of an arm wrestling champ is going to require a different action to a 120lb , 5 foot waif who like my wife does a great impression of Monty Burns! There are no rules - only starting points. My system makes it very easy to set a good action without ruining the nut and have to re-cut one. Be-spoking the action to the player is a luxury everyone should have but most cannot.
 
Pete Howlett said:
Be-spoking the action to the player is a luxury everyone should have but most cannot.
Click to expand...

Nope, most ukulele dealers will do that for you now. Especially those selling instruments which cost a lot of money.
 
saltytri said:
Most copier paper is about .003" or a tad more. What I've heard and used as my standard for fretted clearance at the 1st fret is the thickness of a cigarette rolling paper. Since my exposure to rolling paper was in the Northern California of the 1960s, anything that I claim to remember is suspect but I know that what I'm looking for when doing setups is just daylight peeking through between the fret and the string. Another way of putting it is that when a string is fretted between the 2nd and 3rd frets and then touched over the first fret, it should deflect downward just a part of a smidgen, or less, before touching the fret. Assuming about .090" clearance over the 12th fret, you have a decent chance of buzz-free and comfortable playability.

The only thickness I could find for rolling paper in a quick Google search was 51 to 53 microns, or about .002". Thus, if one follows the rolling paper rule, copier paper is too thick IF you have zeroed in on the exact strings you want to use on that instrument. If you're trying out different strings for tonal quality and tension on a particular instrument, you may not want to start out with bare minimum clearance with the first string set, as a setup that plays buzz-free with one string may not work so well with another string. It's easier and quicker to take a bit more bone out of the slot later than to take too much out at the beginning and wait for the bone to grow back.

Of course, as is always true in luthiery, congenial disputation is never far away or out of order and Pete's 30,000+ hours certainly makes his approach very interesting and well worth listening to. :)
Click to expand...

Just to be clear when I did that article referred to above - it's an old guitar tip - but only a guide. Yes, paper thickness differs, of course it does as do hands, hand strength and ukuleles themselves. But it's a quick and dirty way to check a uke in a store to see just how far out it is - aimed at beginners who may think a massively high nut action is normal. If you want to dial in the nut height to micron level, then no, this isn't the way, but then i've never wanted to do that, despite the inference. If you just want to know if if needs adjusting or not - it's a good check. I've always used it and not run into buzzes or intonation issues due to high nuts using it, but maybe that's just me. I don't then spend hours trying to dial it down to perfection. If it feels ok and doesn't play out of tune, i'm happy..
 
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bazmaz said:
Just to be clear when I did that article referred to above - it's an old guitar tip - but only a guide. Yes, paper thickness differs, of course it does as do hands, hand strength and ukuleles themselves. But it's a quick and dirty way to check a uke in a store to see just how far out it is - aimed at beginners who may think a massively high nut action is normal. If you want to dial in the nut height to micron level, then no, this isn't the way, but then i've never wanted to do that, despite the inference. If you just want to know if if needs adjusting or not - it's a good check. I've always used it and not run into buzzes or intonation issues due to high nuts using it, but maybe that's just me. I don't then spend hours trying to dial it down to perfection. If it feels ok and doesn't play out of tune, i'm happy..
Click to expand...

Barry, I for one am indebted to you and your method of quickly setting up a ukulele.
 
Pete Howlett said:
Not sure what y'all are trying to say. It's not about a rule of thumb - my 50 thou shim is a starting point and a good one at that. Obsession about action has in my opinion migrated into the ukulele world from the guitar playing world and is usually driven by reviewers of instruments who do a great job of helping us to understand what to look for. BUT if you are a 300lb, 7 foot giant with the grip of an arm wrestling champ is going to require a different action to a 120lb , 5 foot waif who like my wife does a great impression of Monty Burns! There are no rules - only starting points. My system makes it very easy to set a good action without ruining the nut and have to re-cut one. Be-spoking the action to the player is a luxury everyone should have but most cannot.
Click to expand...

Pete, you're right. It is an obsession. On the other hand, I've been recently been given feedback [SWMBO] about how poorly ukuleles are sent to customers from ebay and amazon. It has propelled me to purchase, at great expense [$30] several tools which will help me get my circle of ukulele users able to actually use their musical instruments as they were intended. Amen.
 
ukeanixi said:
Barry, I for one am indebted to you and your method of quickly setting up a ukulele.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that - I'm not a tech, but my site is written for people of all levels of course. The setup bits I've done are guides to get you dialled in as best you can or at least KNOW there is an issue. I've seen club players with badly setup ukes thinking it was normal! I have to do it that way as not every reader I have is experienced. It's also the reason I don't really go into details on Got A Ukulele on nut adjustments. It's one of those 'if you know how to you know', but I really don't want to set hares running with loads of first timers taking files to nut slots then blaming me for mucking it up!

Incidentally - I totally agree with Pete on this - the nut setup IS critical
 
You're welcome, Barry.
As far as the nut set-up, my wife has been having fun at my expense over that. Not very nice, if you ask me. I'm the only normal one in the whole household! Really, I am!
 
bazmaz said:
Thanks for that - I'm not a tech, but my site is written for people of all levels of course. The setup bits I've done are guides to get you dialled in as best you can or at least KNOW there is an issue. I've seen club players with badly setup ukes thinking it was normal! I have to do it that way as not every reader I have is experienced. It's also the reason I don't really go into details on Got A Ukulele on nut adjustments. It's one of those 'if you know how to you know', but I really don't want to set hares running with loads of first timers taking files to nut slots then blaming me for mucking it up!

Incidentally - I totally agree with Pete on this - the nut setup IS critical
Click to expand...

Barry, I too am indebted to you and your site. When I started, I ordered my first tenor from Amazon because I had some gift cards. I knew exactly nothing about ukuleles. Bought a Fender Nohea all-laminate koa tenor for the looks and because I thought "All-Koa" meant solid koa. It sounded OK, but it was a bear trying to barre the first two frets. I found out about setup from your website along with all of the things I did wrong buying my first. ;) I did your test and realized it was way out. Took it to a shop and had it dialed in. World of difference. Thank you again for that.

I use a low action because I'm getting arthritis in my hands. And it's difficult to barre 1st & second frets if I don't. I also use fluorocarbon strings because even though they have a higher tension, they are bendier. And for me, easier to play.
 
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