Nicer ukuleles when plugged in...

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KaminTheWeaver

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Is there a diminishing return with the sound of a premium ukulele when it's plugged in and run through an amplifier? For instance, how much better would a Ko'olau Koa Tenor sound on a Fishman Loudbox Mini vs. a Pono Acacia Tenor? Or how about a similar-sized Kamaka vs. an Ohana run through the same amp?

For those who play premium ukuleles and plug them in, what do you use, and what would you avoid?
 
tough call for me. The uke pros sound good with preamps and FOH guys when using premium instruments/pick-ups. I can't say how much of their sound can be just from the uke when there are so many factors.
 
There's no simple answer as the resulting sound is subject to some combination of the player's skill, the particular pickup and the quality of the sound system. But assuming the pickup, player and sound system are equal, the plugged in difference between a $750 Pono and $1500 Kanile'a will be small. In fact, often a less acoustically resonance instrument will sound better jacked in than an instrument with killer acoustic tone. Why? Because the better instrument has more ringing overtones to muddy up the sound and will be more prone to feedback. One of the best sounding ukuleles I've played jacked in is the Godin MultiAc ukulele and it barely has any acoustic tone.

With the above said I've compared my Pono MT-E, a $400 tenor with stock passive Pono pickup, to my $2000 Kanile'a K-1 Preminum super tenor with Fishman pickup. Yes, the Kanile'a is nicer acoustically but, jacked into my Trace Acoustic TA100R, they're certainly in the same ball park—different in character but just as nice sounding.
 
I have three ukes with pick-ups (Moonbird, KoAloha, Cocobolo). All three have MiSi pick-ups (active). All three sound great when plugged into my Roland AC-33 amp. I'd personally give a slight edge to the $550 Cocobolo, over the $1400 Moonbird. However, when plugged into the PA system at church, the Moonbird definitely has the edge. Each uke has it's own sound & personality unplugged, which can influence my perception of how I like the sound plugged in.
 
gochugogi said:
There's no simple answer...
Click to expand...

I like that answer. It's perfect! :)

I like amplification. I have a $60 Fender Frontman 10 amp and several ukes that can connect to it. My latest is a $70 Aklot concert, and the amp gives it a big boost. Of course, with the controls on the uke and the amp, there is a lot of variation available.
 
Depends on the type of pickup.
My theory is that for any undersaddle piezo pickup, there won't be any significant differences as long as the ukulele is setup well.

On other kinds, like a high quality soundboard transducer or "microphone" pickup like an iRig Acoustic Stage, then the quality of the instrument would play more of a role.
 
Very subjective one to answer. Of course the core ukulele plays a part (you can only amplify the sound the uke itself makes), but then there are huge variances in

1. Pickup type - pizeo strip, piezo spot, microphonic etc
2. Pickup quality - there are leagues between the cheap entry level strips you see on Chinese ukes and something like an LR Baggs element
3. Amplifier - again - huge difference between a cheap battery amp with a 5 inch speaker and a high end acoustic staged model from someone like AER.

Then you have variables like how the tone is shaped. A basic EQ can do some work to adjust the tone to make it more natural, but they don't hold a torch to an EQ with parametric EQ controls (that let you dial out individual frequencies to stop pickups sounding quacky).

If you run different ukes through the same good amp, using the same good pickup strip and the same EQ settings, yes, the higher end uke will sound, well, higher end in the same way it will sound different when unplugged.
 
bazmaz said:
If you run different ukes through the same good amp, using the same good pickup strip and the same EQ settings, yes, the higher end uke will sound, well, higher end in the same way it will sound different when unplugged.
Click to expand...

Will it though?

Maybe between a $100 ukulele and a $1000 ukulele there might be a difference if the $1000 ukulele has a better saddle and bridge construction that transmits vibrations better onto the piezo strip.

But what about a $100 ukulele that has been given a superb setup and a saddle upgrade?

What about a $300-500 Pono vs a $1000-5000 custom Hawaiian ukulele with the same piezo undersaddle pickup?

In theory, solid body electrics which have the acoustic properties of a literal plank of wood perform better plugged in than any acoustic-electric with the same piezo strip when plugged in due to superior vibration and reduced feedback.

My experience has been that with undersaddle pickups - once you reach a certain minimum quality standard of setup + saddle/bridge materials, then a higher end ukulele won't necessarily give you a more higher end sound. Output from a piezo pickup are just electrical signals generated from the physical vibrations transmitted. It is a different process to the natural soundwaves produced by the acoustic instrument. I don't think we can assume that a 'higher end' acoustic instrument will produce more pleasant electrical piezo signals by default simply because it is 'high end'.
 
I mean same ukes, same pickups, same amp, same everything. Not where one has been given a better setup or one where the pickup was fitted better.

Which, of course is all very academic, and not a test that could ever be fairly done.

As for the vibration bit - I disagree. Yes the piezo is creating an electrical signal out of vibration, but the vibration itself will differ from a cheap uke to a higher end model. If you are gettng more sustain, for example, from a higher end ukulele, then you will have more sustain in the signal going to the amp. That is directly linked to the core instrument and how it is vibrating. I can also certainly hear the differences between a bright or a woody sounding instrument when amplified - because that tonal property is also picked up in the signal. Likewise if you have a poorly sustaining core ukulele, you are going to get a poorly sustaining signal too.

I didn't say 'more pleasant', I just said that differences in the core sound will translate into the pickup signal.
 
It all really depends on what the listener wants or expects to hear. Anyway, the never ending argument about the difference between, you pick the price points, and which one sounds best. Is there in fact a better sound? Who defines that? They will probably sound different.
 
bazmaz said:
I mean same ukes, same pickups, same amp, same everything. Not where one has been given a better setup or one where the pickup was fitted better.

Which, of course is all very academic, and not a test that could ever be fairly done.

As for the vibration bit - I disagree. Yes the piezo is creating an electrical signal out of vibration, but the vibration itself will differ from a cheap uke to a higher end model. If you are gettng more sustain, for example, from a higher end ukulele, then you will have more sustain in the signal going to the amp. That is directly linked to the core instrument and how it is vibrating. I can also certainly hear the differences between a bright or a woody sounding instrument when amplified - because that tonal property is also picked up in the signal. Likewise if you have a poorly sustaining core ukulele, you are going to get a poorly sustaining signal too.

I didn't say 'more pleasant', I just said that differences in the core sound will translate into the pickup signal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for elaborating.
I guess it depends on the sensitivity of the listener and also the piezo strip's ability to detect those nuances.
Once preamps, amps and sound modelling is added to the equation, it becomes even more subjective and complex as you described :)
 
kissing said:
Thanks for elaborating.
I guess it depends on the sensitivity of the listener and also the piezo strip's ability to detect those nuances.
Once preamps, amps and sound modelling is added to the equation, it becomes even more subjective and complex as you described :)
Click to expand...

Again, as I say though - I am talking about amps, preamps, modelling NOT being in the equation (or at least the same ones in a hypothetical test). Ignore those variables. I am talking about same pickup, same amp, same everything as its the only way to make the comparison the OP suggested. I don't believe that with all other things equal the piezo sound would not differ. It certainly wouldn't be a nuanced different. In my experience it's obvious - brighter acoustic ukes sound brighter amplified. Longer sustaining ukes sustain longer amplified. Those ARE the acoustic signatures coming through in the pickup.

To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that with a good pickup an entry Kala Tenor would sound the same as a Koaloha Tenor with the same pickup. And that's patently not going to be the case.
 
The purpose of an amplification system is to amplify the signal. A signal from a high end uke needs a high end amplification system to reproduce its quality. A lower quality uke will have its flaws magnified. It would be an odd choice to spend more on a pick up system than on the uke itself. There are different needs to amplify for a handful of people when you're busking at a street corner, or for hundreds of people who pay to hear you in a concert setting.
 
bazmaz said:
To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that with a good pickup an entry Kala Tenor would sound the same as a Koaloha Tenor with the same pickup. And that's patently not going to be the case.
Click to expand...

Arguably, yes.
The piezo pickup is picking up vibrations from saddle and bridge.
The rest of the instrument, such as the top and body woods makes a very minute contribution to the output signal.
The actual acoustic tone (unamplified) of the instrument plays no role in piezo pickup amplification.

That's why in my last post I emphasised that planks of wood with a piezo pickup (solid body electrics) tend to be better suited for amplifying than any acoustic-electric regardless of how high-end the acoustic properties are.

If the high end ukulele is going to sound better than the entry Kala using the same pickup, the difference will be very subtle or non-existent.
Maybe a bit more sustain due to superior setup and saddle material..which can be cheaply upgraded on the Kala.
 
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I completely disagree, and not my experience at all. I fit Fishman AG0 pickups in the main. I have woody sounding acoustics that sound woody amplified. I have a bright solid top laminate back cheapy that sounds bright plugged in.

The vibrations carry lots of tonal frequencies and they come through in the picked up sound.
 
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It depends.

But I'm mostly with Baz on this one. That said, he or she who plays and operates his or her gear better will sound best at the end of the day - regardless of how much the uke costs.

A good plugged in sound is the result of a bunch of things going right. If you blow it at any point along the way, it's going to sound crappy, regardless.

I wouldn't get too worked up about it. IMO, getting a pickup installed well is the best thing you can do for yourself - period. If you take a bad install out of the picture, you're WAY ahead. Second to that, learn what you can about live sound.
 
bazmaz said:
I completely disagree, and not my experience at all. I fit Fishman AG0 pickups in the main. I have woody sounding acoustics that sound woody amplified. I have a bright solid top laminate back cheapy that sounds bright plugged in.

The vibrations carry lots of tonal frequencies and they come through in the picked up sound.
Click to expand...

All I can say is that my experience has been different.
I've had both high-end and low-end ukes come sounding great and bad alike even with the same kind of pickup (Mi-Si, Shadow, Fishman, etc).

The aspects that made the biggest difference are the setup (which includes how well seated between the bridge and saddle the pickup is) and saddle material.

For instance, in my experience, I would perceive a far larger change in amplified tone when the saddle material has been changed to a TUSQ one, or another kind of bone one. I would also perceive a larger change in amplified tone before/after a setup, especially if the saddle has been sanded down a bit.

You can get a mediocre piezo tone on a high end uke, and an amazing piezo tone on a low end uke.

I guess where you're coming from is that if a high end and low end uke have equivalently superb setup and same saddle, the high end might perform better.

I am not entirely convinced yet that the difference would be that big, but it's definitely a plausible observation.
 
Harmony Smurf said:
always thought the advantage for a solid body was having less feedback. There might be others so I don't have an opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's just feedback.
Solid body gives more sustain and output, as there is greater vibration when a solid piece of wood vibrates compared to a thin top.

This is why I am a little bit skeptical about a 'high end' acoustic uke with superb natural acoustic properties necessarily sounding better as an electric compared to a cheaper uke with equivalent electronics. The superb acoustic properties don't necessarily translate to conditions required for a superb electrified property.

There are also amplified tonal differences between a hollow body electric and a solid body electric as well - solid bodies tend to have thicker, denser sounding tones due to the nature of the vibrations.
 
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Brad Bordessa said:
A good plugged in sound is the result of a bunch of things going right. If you blow it at any point along the way, it's going to sound crappy, regardless.
Click to expand...
I can relate to this. It had been awhile since the sound guy at church had “balanced” our sound. We have added & subtracted members & instruments (bass guitar & Cajon). In addition, other music groups in the community use our sanctuary for performances, so things get messed with. All of us were noticing problems with our sound. My uke sounded way too loud & brash. Both my Moonbird & my Cocobolo had the same issue. After moving folks around, adjusting everyone’s sound, and adjusting the monitors, we have things dialed in. My uke sounds great again.
 
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