Disappointing Living Water experience

In the fall of 2019 I ordered some Living Water strings, directly from Ken Middleton.

Life was busy, so it took a while for me to notice that they hadn't shown up.
I contacted him in November and after a couple of emails (I never received a reply to the first two I sent) he said he would send the order again.
(We double-checked my address - which came from Paypal, which I use a lot and know is correct)

Lots of life stuff happening, mostly sad unfortunately - and the other day I realized that the strings still had not shown up.

I did all the usual things; ask the neighbours if they'd seen them, enquired at the post office (I had done all those things before emailing him the first time, too) but nothing turned up - so I emailed Ken again.


This time, he replied that he had sent me the strings, that mail never goes missing in the Netherlands (I wish!) and that there was nothing he could do for me.


I've met Ken a few times in person at various ukulele festivals etc, and he always seemed like a nice guy, so his response surprised me.
There could, of course, be all sorts of things going on in his life as well.

The order was for 4 or 5 sets of strings, so not a huge fortune - but still a rather disappointing experience.

I'm not quite sure what to do now.

I trust he did in fact send the strings; but Dutch mail is (increasingly) not perfect, and I suspect the same goes for UK mail - I've also heard stories about the Brexit kerfuffle causing chaos in various ways.

Still, I paid for the strings, and one or two of my ukuleles are very much due for a change (and good fluorocarbons are not easy to find here).
The whole thing just makes me sad and, as I realize in writing this, a bit anxious as well.

Does anyone here have any recent experience with Ken?

For anyone reading this: what would you do in my place?

What would I do in your place?

Well I’d talk to Ken direct and accept what he says as being the complete truth. I’d accept that occasionally things do get lost within the mail and that mail between the U.K. and the Netherlands isn’t without a small element of risk - errors happen and your item might be stuck in Brazil.

In Ken’s position I’d be wondering whether you were an honest buyer, not everybody is. I’d also be thinking that once I had posted your items I had fulfilled your order (loss in the post is at the buyers risk and not within the seller’s control). Short of some expensive tracked post I don’t see how this issue can be resolved for you. In your shoes I’d give up and buy from within Continental Europe, someone there will stock Martin fluorocarbons and they’re good strings. This forum has many members in Continental Europe so if you make a new thread asking where you can buy fluorocarbon strings from (within CE) then I feel sure that you’ll get many helpful answers.

I mean this in the nicest possible way: Stuff happens, it’s how we manage it that matters. Time to let the matter rest and move forward in another way.

For what it is worth I have no connection to Ken (he’s not one of my mates).

Yeah, really not much you can do, stuff happens, things get lost in the mail. Ken is a straight shooter. The best outcome would be for them to eventually show up in your mailbox, which could still happen, and I hope it does.

I have ordered Living Water strings directly from Ken fairly recently. If I recall correctly, I ordered two sets of soprano and one set of concert strings but the shipment only had one set of soprano strings. I contacted Ken immediately, he was very receptive and sent the missing set right away. As opposed to the first shipment, however, this one took ages to arrive. I asked Ken to double check that he sent me the missing set of strings. He offered to send it again if it didn't show up in a week or so and fortunately it did. It took something like three or four weeks so definitely an issue with the postal system. My experience with Ken, however, was flawless and I think he's above board. Frankly, I cannot fault him for not sending you a third shipment when the issue indeed seems to be with the postal system. If I were you I would first inquire your local postal service and ask if they can do anything. They should be liable to some extent as well so maybe ask them for compensation for failing to deliver your shipment.

I usually order LW strings from Uke Republic, but did order directly from Ken within the last year some time, (I've lost track of exactly when), and got the strings promptly. (Faster than from Uke Republic, to my surprise, since I'm in the US.)

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Brexit might be complicating things, though.

I understand too well how life events can make it hard for us to focus on small things like a string shipment, but I would think that from Ken's point of view, it doesn't sound like a good plan to keep shipping you strings. You were, unfortunately, not within the window of time to make use of any protection that PayPal offers, then asked for the strings to be reshipped, which he appears to have done. Then you asked again. If Ken doesn't know you, he could easily think that sounds suspicious. How much of a loss should his small business take?
But, from your point of view, you've taken a loss, too.

If you were to talk with Ken and try working out another shipment, maybe there would be another way to ship to you?
The regular mail service in my area is unreliable, so when I can choose another option, (UPS, FedEx), I do so. Not always possible, and maybe that would increase the cost too much, though.

A few years ago, I ordered some hammered dulcimer hammers to give a friend for Christmas. Fortunately, they had been sent with tracking information. They were sent via regular mail, and stalled out at one postal site. After several weeks of no movement from there, the seller agreed to reship to me, if I'd return a set if I ever got that original set. Months went by...and then one day, they showed up. I did send them back, (at my cost - but the shipper wasn't to blame either), so at least their business didn't have that loss. It's hard for small businesses to eat the cost of a loss. But, it's also hard for the buyer to have to eat the cost of it, too.

Anyway, maybe, months from now, they'll finally show up. You never know.

I hope that the sad events are behind you, and life will now allow you to focus on minor things, like ukulele strings.

Ken is completely trustworthy. You have my sympathy, but the problem must be with the postal service.

John Colter

This has nothing at all to do with Brexit!!! Nothing has changed, nothing will change until December at the earliest - there are no changes to export regulations or postal services in any way, shape or form.

Counter said:

This has nothing at all to do with Brexit!!! Nothing has changed, nothing will change until December at the earliest - there are no changes to export regulations or postal services in any way, shape or form.

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Oops. Sorry. I have enough trouble keeping up with things in my own country, and didn't realize that it wouldn't effect things yet.

From past experience, Ken Middleton is 100% trustworthy, unfortunately not all postal services are, but having said that, mine arrived within a few days of placing my orders here in the UK.

I'm sure both parties—buyer and seller—are trustworthy and this is most likely a case of small packages getting lost in the international shuffle, but why not put tracking on the shipment(s)? It would have gone a long way to putting both parties minds at rest, and might have pinpointed where the problem is occurring.

I would expect five sets of strings to be sent with insured mail and a tracking number be provided. If someone chooses cheap shipping options then the risk of loss is much higher. If no tracked shipping is offered by Ken then he should provide a new shipment.

merlin666 said:

I would expect five sets of strings to be sent with insured mail and a tracking number be provided. If someone chooses cheap shipping options then the risk of loss is much higher. If no tracked shipping is offered by Ken then he should provide a new shipment.

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If you check the first post you'll see that Ken already did send a second shipment.

I have known Ken for several years and have spent time with him when is here in the states. He is an upstanding man of values. I don’t understand how you can go for months without knowing your strings did not arrive. Something seems odd here.

My Living Waters strings from Ken arrived without problems. It took about 3 weeks to arrive. Had customs stickers on it and had been opened by US Customs and resealed.

I have bought many sets from Uke Republic, to avoid any possible Customs Holdups.

It's possible that it may be in customs or the hand-offs between the British Postal Service and the Dutch Postal Service may have not gone smoothly.

I'd start a dialog with your Postal Service and see if they can look into the shipments.

I don't post as much as I did at one time, but recently I have been browsing at more posts and replying when I feel I have something useful to say. And yes, I do realize that just because I think it may be useful doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way

Being a business person, I happen to believe that in this situation, the customer has to get the benefit of the doubt. And while I might find this situation very frustrating if I were in Ken's shoes, the second time I sent the order, I would have used a service that allowed tracking and recourse if they did not get there. I might lose money on the transaction but, hopefully I would gain a happy customer. If I made the decision to use the same service again, and the strings did not get there again, I would certainly be frustrated, but I would still feel obligated to make sure the strings got to the customer. Perhaps I was raised in a different time, but this is kind of Business 101 to me. Having read through this entire chain, I'm a bit shocked by how one-sided the replies are.

I purchased Living Waters strings directly from Ken once. While they did eventually arrive, it took about a month. Maybe that is standard, and if so, I think maybe he should mention that somewhere on his page. Despite the fact that I sent him an email about 2 weeks after placing the order asking about how long it normally took for them to arrive, I never received an answer to my question. Instead, I got a reply that was inpatient, rude and left me thinking he should probably get someone else to answer his emails I don't think any less of the man, but in my case, I was left thinking he clearly does not have good customer service skills.

I once ordered some strings from another company I won't name here. I liked them, but one of the treble strings began unraveling after a few weeks of putting them on. I mentioned that in a random post to someone I was talking to about strings. Within hours, the owner of that company contacted me, mentioned someone had seen the post and informed him about my comments. He reached out to me and offered to refund the purchase to my paypal account. I embarrassed and shocked in a good way. I've gone on to spend hundreds of dollars with that company after that experience.

I do want to re-iterate I was very happy with the strings when they eventually arrived. But if they had not arrived, I would have felt it was Living Water's responsibility to eventually make sure they did. If I was looking for string recommendations and I read a post like this, I would be hesitant to purchase from Living Waters. What value does that represent? Certainly it would be cheaper to use whatever service is needed to make sure they do get there, and add another happy customer to the list.

I am in agreement with Mezcalero's post above.

I respect Ken and I also respect that the person making the post.
Both parties are honest as far as I know.

However, as a business it may have been sensible to send the second lot out with tracking.

I sell on eBay and having tracking is a godsend.
If a package goes missing, the customer is king and you have to issue a refund or repost the item.
At least with tracking, you can make some kind of insurance claim with the postal service.

kissing said:

I am in agreement with Mezcalero's post above.

I respect Ken and I also respect that the person making the post.
Both parties are honest as far as I know.

However, as a business it may have been sensible to send the second lot out with tracking.

I sell on eBay and having tracking is a godsend.
If a package goes missing, the customer is king and you have to issue a refund or repost the item.
At least with tracking, you can make some kind of insurance claim with the postal service.

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Yes, it is a difficult situation and one should be aware that a good name is easily trashed and hard to gain.

Whilst not to any great extent I buy off of eBay and sell a little there too. One thing I do is to set my account to not accept bids from outside of the U.K., I do that because of spoof bidders and dangers in the postal systems of other countries, even those within Europe. The other thing that I do - and this might not be practical for Ken - is to obtain proof of postage for every item, if there’s a dispute then that gives me leverage.

I had a look at Ken’s website and IIRC he bills just £3.00 to send outside of the U.K., his low price makes the process affordable but that comes with a small risk of non delivery. If a customer is concerned about that risk then it’s a simple matter to email requesting a special tracked service and to pay the additional amount, however (assuming that such an international service is there) I cannot see customers being happy to pay nearly as much for delivery as they pay for a set of strings.

Thinking about Ken I don’t picture a business man but rather a long retired school teacher who offers to sell a specialist product for a modest enough price. Basically Ukuleles are his passion and we are fortunate that a byproduct of his interest is a willingness to supply strings to fellow enthusiasts. I can’t see him making much money on them and if he taught instead then his hourly rate would likely be not insignificant - ie. he’d make more money teaching than faffing around with (making up and posting) string sets.

Yes, very ‘best practice’ might possibly have given a different result. However, to my way of thinking, Ken has already gone the extra mile and to ask more of him starts to become unreasonable and potentially an abuse of the service that he offers. If folk want a Rolls Royce Service then no doubt he can give it at three times the price ...

Bill1 said:

I was reading these posts and decided to check out reviews on the Netherlands Postal Service. The available reviews are probably not perfect, but they paint an ugly picture of the service quality currently being provided by PostNL. Only 5% of customers rate it as an excellent service. 89% rate it as rubbish. Some reviews specifically mention tracking and identify that it does not work well in PostNL. Maybe paying extra for tracking is not really going to solve this issue?

We live in a volatile world. Climate change, viruses, natural disasters. Life is too short already and its getting more and more inconvenient. Complaining and "raising issues" used to be an interesting topic, but these days it may be a much better policy to enjoy what you have in front of you right now and hope for the future, instead of getting upset by small things all the time.

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Hit the nail on the head there.

As for Brexit, well we’re both in the transition period now (so trading as normal at the moment) and the order was posted before the transition period started. Brexit is horridly divisive - please, let’s just not go there - and in this case its possible effects are not applicable.

Bill1 said:

I was reading these posts and decided to check out reviews on the Netherlands Postal Service. The available reviews are probably not perfect, but they paint an ugly picture of the service quality currently being provided by PostNL. Only 5% of customers rate it as an excellent service. 89% rate it as rubbish. Some reviews specifically mention tracking and identify that it does not work well in PostNL. Maybe paying extra for tracking is not really going to solve this issue?

We live in a volatile world. Climate change, viruses, natural disasters. Life is too short already and its getting more and more inconvenient. Complaining and "raising issues" used to be an interesting topic, but these days it may be a much better policy to enjoy what you have in front of you right now and hope for the future, instead of getting upset by small things all the time.

Click to expand...

Pick any country at random and google how bad their postal service is - they are all terrible (especially Australia by the looks of it!) I think this is just a case of 70% bad luck and 30% poor customer service.

To echo other points - Ken is one of the good guys and isn't the sort to try and rip you off. It does seem though that he might want to look at tracked and insured delivery options (or at least give buyers a choice of taking his base postage OR an upgraded service).

That's the only way I can see that it would be fair to both sides if something went wrong. If a local postal service keeps losing the package, you can't expect Ken to keep sending replacements... unless... they were insured.